Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

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Bumping for them. May justice come swiftly.
 
Could someone repost crime scene photos and morgue photos please? Seems like all the links are broken. I have read a lot about this case the last couple of days, actually catching up on it from last time I ventured into websleuths. I like hearing from Swamp Fox Trot, his take is definitely interesting and the pics he put up look just like the does.

I found the way they were murdered to be notable. They both were shot in neck, chest, and back? I haven't seen much discussion on this. Were they shot at the scene or were they dumped? Were the entry wounds similar (as in entries of both neck wounds to the front, or side, or back) Were they on their knees?(trajectory)
I did a search of victims shot in neck, back, and chest with Google and interestingly enough it pulled up an assassination in South Africa. Even though it seems absolutely unrelated the story goes on and starts implicating some of the same groups that Swamp Fox mentioned, along with ties to New Jersey. I thought it was interesting and I do think Swamp Fox has the does identified. Unfortunately if it is some kind of government conspiracy, the likelihood of them actually matching the does and the DNA seems unlikely. You guys are doing a great job. Here is that link, coincidental it links back to the same groups discussed? Or that it pulled up when searching the manner in which the does died?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FNQbvjHrFH3DIUsLQ&sig2=Q7rKsRf6ROx11ToZGyIlpw
 
Guess where the person who introduced Townley to the Cuban nationalists actually lived?
 
TooCurious said:
Could someone repost crime scene photos and morgue photos please? Seems like all the links are broken. I have read a lot about this case the last couple of days, actually catching up on it from last time I ventured into websleuths. I like hearing from Swamp Fox Trot, his take is definitely interesting and the pics he put up look just like the does.

I found the way they were murdered to be notable. They both were shot in neck, chest, and back? I haven't seen much discussion on this. Were they shot at the scene or were they dumped? Were the entry wounds similar (as in entries of both neck wounds to the front, or side, or back) Were they on their knees?(trajectory)
I did a search of victims shot in neck, back, and chest with Google and interestingly enough it pulled up an assassination in South Africa. Even though it seems absolutely unrelated the story goes on and starts implicating some of the same groups that Swamp Fox mentioned, along with ties to New Jersey. I thought it was interesting and I do think Swamp Fox has the does identified. Unfortunately if it is some kind of government conspiracy, the likelihood of them actually matching the does and the DNA seems unlikely. You guys are doing a great job. Here is that link, coincidental it links back to the same groups discussed? Or that it pulled up when searching the manner in which the does died?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FNQbvjHrFH3DIUsLQ&sig2=Q7rKsRf6ROx11ToZGyIlpw
Click to expand...

The Mystery Couple have their own section. Scroll up, you'll see Mystery couple murdered South Carolina 1976; click on it, then scroll down to look at the individual threads.

Photo thread link

CarlK90245 said:
Swamp Fox Trot said:
There are a number of errors and bizarre assertions that will be apparent to anyone who's followed this case closely.

The few pieces of evidence mentioned are described in deliberately obfuscatory ways. "Far Eastern design"? For a Linde star? Give me a break. The drawing of Jacques Doe used doesn't look anything like the morgue photos. Etc. etc.

Why would they do that? The Dept. of Justice does not want this case solved. Remember how FBI changed its #1 priority to fighting "terrorism"? This was a counterterrorism operation.
Click to expand...
The circumstances in the NamUs page are straight from the Sumter County Sheriff's page. So are the recons. If the circumstances and recons aren't adequate, don't blame the DOJ.

BTW, the recons could be better, but compared to the recons for a lot of cases, they aren't that far off.
Click to expand...

Thanks Carl. Swamp Fox Trot, it is exactly what I sent to Pam, see Sumter County Sheriff John & Jane Doe (1976). I also sent her every photo I have to save time for the officer that was going through boxes. My goal was to help her quickly get the profiles online which she did. Pam is a very busy lady. It took 6 months for one of my MP cases to go online, I even uploaded the MP report.

I am thankful she was able to get them online so fast. Just looked, there's no DNA. I will try to touch base with her with this case, once she gets back to me with another case I emailed her about a month ago.

Wednesday, April 6, 2011 at 8:49PM



Unidentified Persons

On August 9, 1976, the bodies of an unidentified white mail and white female were discovered on a dirt road 1/2 mile from Interstate 95 and Highway 341 in Northeast Sumter County. Both victims were shot multiple times.

The only potential identifiers found at the scene was a ring worn by the male that had the initials “JPF” inscribed. The ring was described as being of a Far Eastern design.

Over the years, the fingerprints of both subjects have been periodically resubmitted to the FBI database to see if any new information may have been entered somewhere that may help solve their identities. In 2007, the bodies were exhumed by a team of our forensic investigators, then Coroner Verna Moore, agents from the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED) and forensic pathologists from Newberry Pathology to get samples to be submitted into the state, national and international DNA databases.
Click to expand...
 
This group has concluded that since this sounds like something from a movie, it couldn't have happened here. But see the other thread I started on the Lugones couple.
 
Swamp Fox Trot said:
This group has concluded that since this sounds like something from a movie, it couldn't have happened here. But see the other thread I started on the Lugones couple.
Click to expand...

Not sure who you're saying thinks "this" sounds like something from a movie; I have been trying to do what I can to get the case solved. I really want DNA in NamUs so that I can see McMinn's ruled in or out. What kind of records exhist for the couple you think they are? Is there DNA? Have you found their family to get a sample? They need something to get compared

Link to your thread. Will try to read it today.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Mar%EDa-M%E1rta-V%E1squez-Ocampo-(Argentina)
 
So I started reading all of these threads a few nights ago. Is there a new thread on this case? I didn't even know about this case and now I'm hooked after reading everyone's theories. I grew up in SC about 2 hours from Sumter, but this case happened way before I was born. However, my dad is a truck driver in SC and would have just started working around that time. He would have been younger and new at his job but I'm sure he's heard of this case. It's a little disturbing some of the stories that I've heard about truck drivers, but I will ask him if he knows anything about his case. This case is so sad and blows my mind at the same time that no one has come forward. Any new info would be great!
 
Couple

Criticizing LE is simple but investigating was not as simple 40 years ago as it is today.I am not saying that mistakes were not made or that some things were not kept hidden or made intentionally lost,but we have no accurate way to judge today how the investigation was conducted decades ago.

I do not think that LH killed the couple.I highly doubt that his son killed them too.I believe everything to be a little more complicated than that,I believe that LH might have had no idea about who the real killer was.



Lonnie Henry "did not have a lot of control over who was coming in and out of his house at that time".I tend to believe he was one of those guys who dream big and never achieve anything in life,ending up working for the real "lords of the land",being drunk half of the time,covering them up,lying for them,stashing up drugs in different places and even guns (traded,sold,resold,serial numbers filed off) used in different crimes.I doubt it was "his" gun,it was a gun he was keeping and probably used in some other murders or executions.Of course he was not the only one doing that,he just happened to appear in the file.He and his brother,same type of character.



I tend to believe the KOA story (Batson was the name if I remember correctly) is just that,a story.No prominent doctor as a father,no son-father argue,no ring for sale.Maybe no Canada,but that could be true.One of them was lying - Jock when playing pool or Batson remembering smth from the past year.They ate fruit or not,they had icecream,candy or something fruity,anything is possible but nothing will come up from that.The initials - JPF - might have been his but not necessarily.Might not even been a name or initials of an individual,but of a group/society.Or the signature of the artist/designer of the ring.



I do not think it was a robbery but a plain and simple execution,and not by the hands of a young Vietnam soldier,a crooked police officer or somebody who watches too many movies.That was a profesional execution and the fact that the heads and faces were left untouched is not of less importance.Yes,the bodies look placed and I think they really were.The killer did not hide them,he displayed them.It was not only murder,it was a punishment with a message (not necessarily for a singular person/family/group) but to anybody who thought of repeating their mistake.I think that they somehow met the wrong people and did something to upset them (stealing from them,lying,cheating them somehow),people far more dangerous than drunk old boys like LH and his son.No serial killer,no rape,nothing personal,just the facts and a professional hitman (with at least another man to help him handle the couple,maybe even two).

I do not know if the unknown couple were drug mules or not but I tend to lean into that a little,I like it a lot better than somebody "wanted to steal their money or their pot".You don't take people in your (or their?) van,drive for miles,shoot them in the chest,the back and the neck and then steal 100 dollars,a purse,a change of clothes and an old car (if they had those things).I highly doubt the two young people were carrying large sums of money,the jewels were very cheap and the watch was also modest,nobody was interested in them.I do not think the Does were drifters or hithchikers,they must have known these parts and roads but not as well as the locals (and the killers knew that).I'm not saying they were americans,perhaps not,just that it was not their first time in the area.



I never considered that they were related,lovers,friends or something similar.They were definitely a team,connected or not to the racing circuit but almost certainly to the local underworld.The same kind of wannabes as LH,maybe a little more polished.I would love to believe they were just innocent bystanders but I think not.They were into something,on a level low enough for nobody to care.It was destined to be an open case and so it still remains.The photos taken are inconsistent (the ones at the scene and the ones in the morgue),the FBI was never brought in,some of the evidence involved was lost,burned,misplaced (I never heard of pulling out the teeth and sending them to the dentist,that is plain hilarious).Details are not consistent between different descriptions (see the guy's shirt,the watch,the gun used and so on).



A LOT of money have been made in that time from drug traficking,gambling,sex and illegal alcohol in that area,a lot of high and well placed people took profit from that,people way above small time campers,law enforcement and guys like Lonnie Henry.I think locals knew who was involved in the murder (not a name,but a group of people at least) but nobody was talking because it was much safer that way.The two kids just happened to be in the wrong place,at the wrong time and probably doing the wrong thing.Simple as that.The killer will probably remain unknown forever (if he is dead or even alive) and the same thing might happen to the kids' names.Not fair,but the strongest possibility.
 
Welcome to WS Shellbell619 & Andrew_Bg

Andrew_Bg said:
Couple

Criticizing LE is simple but investigating was not as simple 40 years ago as it is today.I am not saying that mistakes were not made or that some things were not kept hidden or made intentionally lost,but we have no accurate way to judge today how the investigation was conducted decades ago.

I do not think that LH killed the couple.I highly doubt that his son killed them too.I believe everything to be a little more complicated than that,I believe that LH might have had no idea about who the real killer was.



Lonnie Henry "did not have a lot of control over who was coming in and out of his house at that time".I tend to believe he was one of those guys who dream big and never achieve anything in life,ending up working for the real "lords of the land",being drunk half of the time,covering them up,lying for them,stashing up drugs in different places and even guns (traded,sold,resold,serial numbers filed off) used in different crimes.I doubt it was "his" gun,it was a gun he was keeping and probably used in some other murders or executions.Of course he was not the only one doing that,he just happened to appear in the file.He and his brother,same type of character.



I tend to believe the KOA story (Batson was the name if I remember correctly) is just that,a story.No prominent doctor as a father,no son-father argue,no ring for sale.Maybe no Canada,but that could be true.One of them was lying - Jock when playing pool or Batson remembering smth from the past year.They ate fruit or not,they had icecream,candy or something fruity,anything is possible but nothing will come up from that.The initials - JPF - might have been his but not necessarily.Might not even been a name or initials of an individual,but of a group/society.Or the signature of the artist/designer of the ring.



I do not think it was a robbery but a plain and simple execution,and not by the hands of a young Vietnam soldier,a crooked police officer or somebody who watches too many movies.That was a profesional execution and the fact that the heads and faces were left untouched is not of less importance.Yes,the bodies look placed and I think they really were.The killer did not hide them,he displayed them.It was not only murder,it was a punishment with a message (not necessarily for a singular person/family/group) but to anybody who thought of repeating their mistake.I think that they somehow met the wrong people and did something to upset them (stealing from them,lying,cheating them somehow),people far more dangerous than drunk old boys like LH and his son.No serial killer,no rape,nothing personal,just the facts and a professional hitman (with at least another man to help him handle the couple,maybe even two).

I do not know if the unknown couple were drug mules or not but I tend to lean into that a little,I like it a lot better than somebody "wanted to steal their money or their pot".You don't take people in your (or their?) van,drive for miles,shoot them in the chest,the back and the neck and then steal 100 dollars,a purse,a change of clothes and an old car (if they had those things).I highly doubt the two young people were carrying large sums of money,the jewels were very cheap and the watch was also modest,nobody was interested in them.I do not think the Does were drifters or hithchikers,they must have known these parts and roads but not as well as the locals (and the killers knew that).I'm not saying they were americans,perhaps not,just that it was not their first time in the area.



I never considered that they were related,lovers,friends or something similar.They were definitely a team,connected or not to the racing circuit but almost certainly to the local underworld.The same kind of wannabes as LH,maybe a little more polished.I would love to believe they were just innocent bystanders but I think not.They were into something,on a level low enough for nobody to care.It was destined to be an open case and so it still remains.The photos taken are inconsistent (the ones at the scene and the ones in the morgue),the FBI was never brought in,some of the evidence involved was lost,burned,misplaced (I never heard of pulling out the teeth and sending them to the dentist,that is plain hilarious).Details are not consistent between different descriptions (see the guy's shirt,the watch,the gun used and so on).



A LOT of money have been made in that time from drug traficking,gambling,sex and illegal alcohol in that area,a lot of high and well placed people took profit from that,people way above small time campers,law enforcement and guys like Lonnie Henry.I think locals knew who was involved in the murder (not a name,but a group of people at least) but nobody was talking because it was much safer that way.The two kids just happened to be in the wrong place,at the wrong time and probably doing the wrong thing.Simple as that.The killer will probably remain unknown forever (if he is dead or even alive) and the same thing might happen to the kids' names.Not fair,but the strongest possibility.
Click to expand...

I personally think they were a couple, I do feel his father could have been a doctor because of his dental work. I think they were connected to car racing. I'm unsure if a tox was done but do feel there could have been drugs involved due to the area; whether they were selling or smuggling. I agree, they were executed and left in the open for a reason.
 
We do see inconsistencies and weirdness of that level in nearly every unidentified case we look at. I'm sure some of the other cases might involve coverups or some such, but in many cases it's just time and incompetence or accident.
 
Thank you,Roselvr!
It's so nice to be here.You guys are awesome!
 
You'll find a lot of info here. The mystery couple are one of a few UP's that have their own section, so there are multiple threads to read.

I feel that if this case is ever solved, it's going to be like Grateful Dead Fan recently identified as Jason Callahan. The right people have not seen the case. Every photo of them looks like different people.
 
Yes,I know.I have read everything about this mistery couple here before writing my own opinion.
Read Lyle Stevik before that...another mind-boggling case
 
Andrew_Bg said:
Yes,I know.I have read everything about this mistery couple here before writing my own opinion.
Read Lyle Stevik before that...another mind-boggling case
Click to expand...

Yes it is! Lyle is another case I follow. Really hope the Isotope testing helps. There is a FB Group for Lyle. I haven't had time to go there in months though
 
Will isotope analysis be completed for them?
 
scriptgirl said:
It's crazy to me that no one seems to be looking for them.
Click to expand...

Good point. Makes me think that the people who would normally be looking for them such as their parents are deceased.
 
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