10-12 shots in the garage to kill Teresa Halbach and blood splatter

[BethInAK]

if it was a small caliber gun and there was no blood, wouldn't there have been bullets in the bonfire?????

 

[Sinsaint]

if it was a small caliber gun and there was no blood, wouldn't there have been bullets in the bonfire?????

Should have been. We were discussing that on one of these threads the other day.

 

[shadowraiths]

If you look at page 3 of the "criminal complaint," it states in part, and I quote:

"approximately eleven spent .22 caliber long rifle shell casings on the floor of the garage."​

The "partial warrant" states in part, and I quote:

"collected as evidence a .22 caliber semi-automatic rifle and a .50 caliber black powder muzzleloader."​

If you look at day 14 of the trial transcripts, you'll see that the rifle was a Marlin Glenfield (.22LR caliber) rifle.

I think this is where the "she was shot 11 times in the garage" came from.

 

[Madeleine74]

Well he shot 11 bullets at some point in that garage. Where do you think 11 spent casings come from? I'm not saying I believe all those shots were for TH, but the argument that has been floated, "someone would have heard those shots so he couldn't have done that," belie the fact that he did shoot that rifle 11 times over some period of time, in order for those shell casings to end up on his garage floor.

 

[Tawny]

I fully believe there were spent casings and stray bullets all over that yard. Even Earl stated he was driving around shooting rabbits that very day. I'm sure they also deal with coyotes. It's really not that strange to have casings on the property. JMO

 

[missy1974]

The guy who owned the trailer, and actually even the guns, said he would shoot the 22 out of the garage when he was living there IIRC

 

[Alchemist]

I did a lot of rabbit hunting with a 22 rifle when I was a kid, and it was quite common to shoot a rabbit dead and not find even a drop of blood. Rarely did the bullet exit. I can easily imagine that a 22 shot to a human head might possibly leave very little blood.

I agree totally. I shot a lot of rabbits in the head with a 22 and there would be no blood or bullet coming out the other side. I believe one could be shot 10 times with a 22 and not leave any blood. one bullet could have went all the way through some soft tissue and left dna on it with minimum bloodshed.

 

[Alchemist]

A .22 rifle doesn't make a very loud noise. inside of a garage with the door closed the sound wouldn't travel very far. It might sound like somebody hammering a nail.

 

[Alchemist]

Thanks for that info SeekingJana.

That brings me back to..... where are those bullets? "IF" the burn pit was the initial burn site, they should have been in there.

I have melted lead in my bbq pit on hot coals to make counterwieghts. So I have no doubts the the bullets could have melted and been dispersed. But like was already mentioned, copper has a higher melting temp. I have never tried to melt copper.

 

[MysticJynx]

I agree totally. I shot a lot of rabbits in the head with a 22 and there would be no blood or bullet coming out the other side. I believe one could be shot 10 times with a 22 and not leave any blood. one bullet could have went all the way through some soft tissue and left dna on it with minimum bloodshed.

However we do know there was Blood splatter. it was inside the rav4's cargo door. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?298788-Blood-Spatter-on-the-RAV-4-Door

 

[Sinsaint]

However we do know there was Blood splatter. it was inside the rav4's cargo door. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?298788-Blood-Spatter-on-the-RAV-4-Door

The pictures I saw of the rear cargo door were not of high velocity impact spatter. Those looked like drips from a wound. HVS would look like a spray.

 

[Sinsaint]

Well he shot 11 bullets at some point in that garage. Where do you think 11 spent casings come from? I'm not saying I believe all those shots were for TH, but the argument that has been floated, "someone would have heard those shots so he couldn't have done that," belie the fact that he did shoot that rifle 11 times over some period of time, in order for those shell casings to end up on his garage floor.

I hope my son is never accused of shooting anyone. He's got about fifty spent shell casings in his room right now. I'm going to make him clean that crap up ASAP.

 

[missy1974]

The pictures I saw of the rear cargo door were not of high velocity impact spatter. Those looked like drips from a wound. HVS would look like a spray.

what do you think would cause the spatter than? Could it have just been TH being carried in or out, and whipping her head around, because her hair was bloody, would it cause that kind of spatter?

Or could it have been splatter from a stabbing type motion? the object coming back with blood on it causing spatter.

****she was missing a tool from her tool kit in her SUV. I remember reading that when they were searching the approx. 4000 cars, the first day, they were looking for her, the 2nd day, they were looking for other clues, ex. license plates, tool that was missing.

On that note.... what tool kit? I wonder if it was photographed or swabbed for *sweat*

 

[Amber29]

The pictures I saw of the rear cargo door were not of high velocity impact spatter. Those looked like drips from a wound. HVS would look like a spray.

How would a wound drip on that door?

 

[MysticJynx]

Simplified guide to blood splatter. It may not be HVS. but still splatter none the less. I think it was from a hit not a shot. Punching, tire iron. something whacking her upside the head. Then pushing her into the back. Thus the transfer blood in the back. Prior to being shot.
http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/simplified-guide-to-bloodstain-pattern-analysis.html

 

[MysticJynx]

How would a wound drip on that door?

If dripping on the door why not the floor?

 

[Amber29]

If dripping on the door why not the floor?

I don't understand your question I'm sorry. Someone said the blood on the cargo door doesn't look like spatter but looks like a wound dripping. I'm wondering how a wound drips on a door like that, being that it opens sideways just like a car door.

 

[ElleElle]

Simplified guide to blood splatter. It may not be HVS. but still splatter none the less. I think it was from a hit not a shot. Punching, tire iron. something whacking her upside the head. Then pushing her into the back. Thus the transfer blood in the back. Prior to being shot.
http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/simplified-guide-to-bloodstain-pattern-analysis.html

I agree. I don't believe a gunshot wound killed her, but something along the lines of blunt force trauma. Which can be anything from the Avery yard also.
The main reason I don't believe she was killed with SAs .22, is because he had it hanging above his bed when his trailer was searched 8 times.

 

[ElleElle]

I don't understand your question I'm sorry. Someone said the blood on the cargo door doesn't look like spatter but looks like a wound dripping. I'm wondering how a wound drips on a door like that, being that it opens sideways just like a car door.

Exactly! How does that happen? Maybe is she was leaning on it while it was being driven?

Is this is the photo in reference, it looks odd because there is barely nothing on the carpet. And, what are the swirly marks?

 

[Amber29]

Exactly! How does that happen? Maybe is she was leaning on it while it was being driven?

Is this is the photo in reference, it looks odd because there is barely nothing on the carpet. And, what are the swirly marks?

View attachment 88193

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=87625&d=1453173226
That's the one with the blood on the cargo door.
I guess that one you've posted is the one that's supposed to be marks made by her hair on the inside panel of the cargo area. I agree strange that there isn't blood on the carpet too.