Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #4

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A person normally wouldn't provide evidence when asking a question or proposing a hypothesis, so I didn't feel obliged to in the quote that was selected.

Like you, I'm all about evidence. Could you maybe provide some unequivocal sources for your points?

I was just thinking along similar line, with so many aspects of this trial; evidence can come from quite a number of sources at this point. Despite it's significance, I might have memory recall, but have to search again for the exact language/specific context. But we infer to far and wide sources for anything JA related, certain theories are bound to be appear without citation at this point. I think it's rare that someone has proposed something that was far off the charts around here...

Our only primary sources of information would be time-stamps, dates, texts (meaning would still probative) and if we can be 100% certain they were not altered in some way. Yet as we have seen, there are editing tools, spyware, and hacks for even metadata, aside from paying someone else to do it. Last I remember Read-only data vs RAM data is the only form that can't be altered.

Add to that, the media sources (pictures, blogs, texts, emails, chats, documents, media content, etc etc); and this is outside of the sworn testimony, interviews from the defendant or TA friends, diary entries, handwritten letters, coded magazines, jury tampering/deception/connection to prosecutor, Maria's and her husband's connection to JA's family, attorney reveals, it goes on and on and on.

I might be able to recollect something, yet at this point, likely consume quite a bit of time just to copy/paste or summarize the original form (if you manage to relocate it again). I have to say, I don't think anyone here really has formed an opinion too far outside the box. His 'supporters' generally relate in some way as it is, I can almost always tell where someone is coming from, at least on Websleuths. I have basic grasp the background someone is referring to, although I've been cruising the WB board for a while now, there is some association to how we post...

It's just one's perspective of the facts if not direct evidence most times, TA is lucky in that he has intelligent 'supporters.' Yet the fact is, that psychopaths target in private, much of what happened between the two is at an incomplete stage (I don't feel comfortable discounting TA's psychology). Not only did JA distort her records/motives, TA was one confused person. Their records will show you this too. Someone with personal experience with BPD, a narcissist, or a sociopath might have a different assessment of the timeline than someone without, for example. Intuition is a hard-wired survival skill, it doesn't necessarily mean you are totally discounting the left hemisphere of the brain.

What relates to Travis is that many abuse victims are charmed by predators in adulthood. We seem to have a good deal of TA's timeline now from place or another, bear his own unique personality in mind, so I find it valuable to consider certain things as long as there is some point of reference - but it will be limited as to the extent of her predatory effect on TA, IMO. He had trouble expressing, validating the issues, let alone resolving them.

Homicide investigators 'profile.' Evidence and/or heresay is considered to collect more evidence, only to present it at trial. More often than not, those investigators have assessed the information and based on their experience, they have identified their prime suspect(s) and probable motive.

Investigation doesn't stop there though, the killer and victim unfortunately know what happened in it's actuality..

Rickshaw, apologies if much of what I said here doesn't relate to your post.. I am just of the sentiment questioning validity of something has been done before so I agree.
 
I was just thinking along similar line, with so many aspects of this trial; evidence can come from quite a number of sources at this point. Despite it's significance, I might have memory recall, but have to search again for the exact language/specific context. But we infer to far and wide sources for anything JA related, certain theories are bound to be appear without citation at this point. I think it's rare that someone has proposed something that was far off the charts around here...

Et al. .......

Thanks, B_Lab for articulating my point better than I could.

As a general point—since I was being corrected upthread (not by you at all) for not using evidence to frame a hypothesis—creative thinking comes from making hypotheses and then testing them against available sources of information. There is no denial on this board that some facts can never be known for certain, but the hypotheses have varying likelihoods of being true. This doesn't make them any less valid: a hypothesis is a direction to travel in, not a statement of fact.

Formulating hypotheses is an essential aspect of investigatory work and, in fact every knowledge discipline I can think of. It's the process of figuring out what questions to ask, and without questions, there are no answers.

Who the heck is Maria as she related to JA's family? Is that the same Maria who seems to have been a fictional woman in the UK created by Jodi to trap Travis? (See our discussion of the newly published texts.) Or is this a whole different Maria, in a pile of all the other M-names in this case?
 
A person normally wouldn't provide evidence when asking a question or proposing a hypothesis, so I didn't feel obliged to in the quote that was selected.

Like you, I'm all about evidence. Could you maybe provide some unequivocal sources for your points?

I wasn't responding to a hypothesis but the opinion that she was never his girlfriend.

I provided a link showing that Travis himself referred to the murderer as his girlfriend. It was submitted as evidence in court and clearly shows Travis' repeating that she was his girlfriend. The extent of that, the parameters, commitment, all fair enough topic for debate and opinion but against the facts, surely?
 
Thanks, B_Lab for articulating my point better than I could.

As a general point—since I was being corrected upthread (not by you at all) for not using evidence to frame a hypothesis—creative thinking comes from making hypotheses and then testing them against available sources of information. There is no denial on this board that some facts can never be known for certain, but the hypotheses have varying likelihoods of being true. This doesn't make them any less valid: a hypothesis is a direction to travel in, not a statement of fact.

Formulating hypotheses is an essential aspect of investigatory work and, in fact every knowledge discipline I can think of. It's the process of figuring out what questions to ask, and without questions, there are no answers.

Just to be clear, I wasn't responding to a hypothesis but statements about whether Travis referred to or considered Arias as his girlfriend. The evidence shows him saying she was, repeating it on tape. You also made a point about never going to a movie with her, cookie baking, small details. She did bake cookies at his house and they did go to the cinema, if my memory serves me correctly. I already said that these small matters don't negate broader speculation about the intensity or sincerity of the relationship.

As for correcting you, I was simply stating the evidence against your statements. I am more than happy for anyone to 'correct' me as I've learnt a lot on this forum by people doing exactly that.
 
I think JA's sick thought process is so unnatural that we sort of mentally reject it. We find ourselves trying to fit her bizarre behavior into the norm... in other words we are incapable of thinking in such a distorted manner. We often give her credit for emotions that are really out of her range. I don't think she loved or wanted Travis. I don't think she longed for nice possessions or normal relationships. I think these things very just odd to her... foreign concepts that she could never FEEL though she saw others involved in these things. Her goal was to possess Travis (and his life), to use his life to fill a dark void. But NOTHING could ever satisfy or"cure" that emptiness.
I knew a woman who I befriended via a Navy mom group. Quickly I realized that she was odd, but I felt a bit sorry for her and was nice to her. All of her conversation was strange, exaggerated just off. If you said you had a certain experience, she had had it but to a greater degree. She told obvious tall tales as if they were documented facts. She began to take on my interests and even my manner of speaking. It was utterly unnerving. She would "drop" by my house (our "friendship" was very marginal) even though she lived 30 minutes away. She "friended" on social media (or tried to) my grown children she had never met. She actually told me she made notes of her conversations with people and had sticky notes all over her computer of tidbits about her "friends" along with spreadsheets of info about people. She was a prolific and lousy liar. I began to feel stalked! Finally, after she "dropped" by on Christmas eve night as my family was celebrating, I had enough and cut her off cold turkey. I mention all this because I feel JA was similar in her need to infiltrate TA's life. It was not done out of love, but out of the need to fill some hole in her horrible damaged psyche. Like TA, I did not see the madness of my "friend" until it escalated. She was not easy to get rid of. I escaped her weird, possessive intrusion into my life. I wish Travis had been able to do the same.
People with these sorts of illnesses in this severe form are so far from the norm, so incapable of love, empathy or even understanding social or relational boundaries. It is to our peril when we forget this and attribute characteristics to them that they are truly incapable of. JMHO

Interesting, I had a friend somewhat like this, she was after my husband though, I figured it out and dumped her but is that a possibility in your case? Maybe you didn't think of that one...anyway, thanks and I agree these people do not think like we do..otherwise they wouldnt do the things they do.
 
Toiling away on the timeline still, in between long bouts snow shovelling. No snow plow yet.


An interesting tidbit..... At the very end of March, as the is supposedly packing, but is actually crazy-busy doing as much damage to Travis as she possibly can before she's cast into exile, she sends TA some rather mysterious texts.

She texts him a half dozen or so times, very very late at night, asking him to bring her cleaning supplies. Leaving aside the sheer chutzpah of that request, and that it reveals she didn't stay with Travis in the week before she left as she claimed she did, here's what's odd.

When TA finally says "yah" he'll bring her the stuff, she tells him the door will be open and gives him directions to her room.

Umm. Really? Directions? He's never ever been inside the house where she's lived for months? Now that's interesting, eh?
 
Here's another little tidbit, about those travel plans of Travis she so focused on during the alleged May 10 call through setting up her alibi and in all her lying lies afterwards.

1. Going to Crater Lake together came up before January 2008, so originally at least, seems to have had nothing to do with a post-move visit.

2. She first brings up the Oregon Coast in her journal, on the eve of leaving Mesa, saying TA had told her he'd visit her and they would travel along the coast together.

3. Can't count the number of lies she's telling in her journal around this time. Several entries may or may not have been written post-murder, but most were not, imo. So, its entirely possible- I think probable- that Travis never said any such thing to her.

I'm coming to conclude that Travis never promised her he'd come visit, as in never, and that is precisely the reason she was so insistent with her elaborate lies that he had.
 
Interesting, I had a friend somewhat like this, she was after my husband though, I figured it out and dumped her but is that a possibility in your case? Maybe you didn't think of that one...anyway, thanks and I agree these people do not think like we do..otherwise they wouldnt do the things they do.

Oh, she is long gone from my life. Did not need a psycho "friend"!! I still see her on FaceBook. She always has a new victim or two that she is latched on to.
 
The State fb page is confirming that the wannabe rapper KW will be in the audience of "dr" phil during the taping of the show. He will be there in support of the butcheress and DV. He is a pig!!! Some are contacting the show to voice their opinion on it. They have even sent SS of him putting women down on twitter with name calling.. it's blowing up on twitter and fb Travis support sites.






Enrique Cortez Jr. :

"It doesn't look like I'll be needed on this one, but the line up should produce a good show!"
 
Why did JA kill Travis? Not just kill, but in such a horrific manner.

Why was she so enraged? From reading text messages and such, I know Travis didn't and wouldn't have done anything to harm her. He was a nice guy. He said so himself in the g-chat and I agree 100 %.

Lying killer said that she has nothing to gain and everything to lose if she killed him. I know she is lying, so what was her gain for killing him in her deranged mind?

As much as I delved into this case, these questions popped into my head this morning and I don't know the answer.
 
JODISPEAK is abundant in this trial. She uses partial truths to write her fictional journal, testify and as we heard even send messages to herself that seem to have come from Travis.

Baked cookies with him? Him and everyone else he invited to a cookie party at his house? Or baked them when Travis was not there and she knew Deanna was coming to take care of the dog?

Went on vacation with him alone? Unlikely in my opinion. Not when he invited the younger brother and sister to come as chaperones because JA invited herself along on his trip. I think photoshopped pictures and false diary entries.

I remember in one letter she wrote to him where she begged to be friends. She said (paraphrased) 'We are not boyfriend and girlfriend, we are not secret lovers'. Yet, under oath she said that was they were and that they needed to hide it because Deanna would be mad and the Hughes's would not like it.

Travis was a flirt. I always heard that if something sounds unbelievable, it probably is and her story of their relationship is unbelievable! Too many were proven as lies in court.
 
LOL. It was posted on the inmates fan account on Twitter that she is on her 3rd tv in 8 months. Bet she will need a new one after Juan and Chris Hughes interview on Dr Phil!


Jodi Arias Updates ‏@JodiAnnArias · Jan 21
"I'm going on my third TV in eight months. Skyworth brand--I don't recommend it." -- #JodiArias

That might explain "ZENITH" references. LMAO

12523046_10208515778121647_3247064353410001519_n.jpg
 
The State fb page is confirming that the wannabe rapper KW will be in the audience of "dr" phil during the taping of the show. He will be there in support of the butcheress and DV. He is a pig!!! Some are contacting the show to voice their opinion on it. They have even sent SS of him putting women down on twitter with name calling.. it's blowing up on twitter and fb Travis support sites.






Enrique Cortez Jr. :

"It doesn't look like I'll be needed on this one, but the line up should produce a good show!"
JM will be on the show too? Or is it just a rumor?
The KW gutter guy is toast if JM is there to 'cross examine' him and send him back where he belongs. Can't wait for that awesomeness.
 
JM will be on the show too? Or is it just a rumor?
The KW gutter guy is toast if JM is there to 'cross examine' him and send him back where he belongs. Can't wait for that awesomeness.

I would like to know if JM knows whether this KW guy is the same person that JA identified as MM's "roommate" from the night before she left for Mesa.
 
Why did JA kill Travis? Not just kill, but in such a horrific manner.

Why was she so enraged? From reading text messages and such, I know Travis didn't and wouldn't have done anything to harm her. He was a nice guy. He said so himself in the g-chat and I agree 100 %.

Lying killer said that she has nothing to gain and everything to lose if she killed him. I know she is lying, so what was her gain for killing him in her deranged mind?

As much as I delved into this case, these questions popped into my head this morning and I don't know the answer.



Only she knows why, but maybe not even her, since she gets so lost in her own lies.

JMO: From her point of view- he rejected her, even though she loved him unconditionally, and all she ever wanted was for him to be happy and successful.

She was true to him, but he cheated on her, repeatedly. She was even willing to just be his friend, but he refused her even that status and kept her hidden from his friends, even though he kept pressuring her for sex.

Ultimately she decided it was hurting both of them spiritually for her to stay in Mesa, and since his well being was paramount, she sacrificed her own best opportunities financially and socially and returned to Yreka.

Travis didn't appreciate her loving sacrifice; worse, he actually accused her of invading his privacy and slashing his tires and more. He even threatened to expose her to everyone that mattered to her.

She didn't believe he would actually do that, but how dare he threaten her.

Over the next 3 weeks, 4 at the most, she teetered back and forth between trying to maintain her fiction that leaving had elevated her spiritually and growing rage that Travis was doing just fine without her, and seemed to feel little desire to stay in touch, even as a "friend."

She starts dropping her holy pretense-with Travis- by the end of April. But not so with Ryan, who she now starts pursuing pretty relentlessly. He's not her alibi yet, IMO. He's her prey, her replacement for Travis.

But...it's not that simple because Travis just won't leave her be. She wants to move on from Travis, for him to mean absolutely nothing to her, but it isn't happening. Almost every other contact with him ends up with him being angry at her and increasingly, with him telling her she is worthless in one way or another.

He. telling her. that! The hypocrite. The liar. The cheater. The bad Mormon.

And then, on May 13 he goes the one step way too far. He sets her up, and he involves a friend to do so. The two spend almost an entire day mocking her, provoking her, ridiculing her, and at the end, rubbing her nose in it.

Everyone was going to find out. And Travis had demonstrated utter contempt for her, and as bad, that he could no longer be readily controlled. No positives were left, as she told him on May 26.

Just rage and resolve to make him suffer as much as he had caused her to, and then death because it was high time for her to move on.
 
I would like to know if JM knows whether this KW guy is the same person that JA identified as MM's "roommate" from the night before she left for Mesa.



I'm glad you brought this up. I had notes on this to let him know, but I can't find the file they are in. Hopefully he does know though.
 
I wasn't responding to a hypothesis but the opinion that she was never his girlfriend.

I provided a link showing that Travis himself referred to the murderer as his girlfriend. It was submitted as evidence in court and clearly shows Travis' repeating that she was his girlfriend. The extent of that, the parameters, commitment, all fair enough topic for debate and opinion but against the facts, surely?

Oh, okay, I get it now, or at least I think I do: you're talking about semantics.
 
Toiling away on the timeline still, in between long bouts snow shovelling. No snow plow yet.


An interesting tidbit..... At the very end of March, as the is supposedly packing, but is actually crazy-busy doing as much damage to Travis as she possibly can before she's cast into exile, she sends TA some rather mysterious texts.

She texts him a half dozen or so times, very very late at night, asking him to bring her cleaning supplies. Leaving aside the sheer chutzpah of that request, and that it reveals she didn't stay with Travis in the week before she left as she claimed she did, here's what's odd.

When TA finally says "yah" he'll bring her the stuff, she tells him the door will be open and gives him directions to her room.

Umm. Really? Directions? He's never ever been inside the house where she's lived for months? Now that's interesting, eh?

Very interesting.

I had already assumed TA had never been to JA's place, because she was always wanting to be at his place. What would be the point of having him come to hers?

Plus, he seems to have been much less involved in her life than her BS suggests. He has a busy life outside of her company.

I also think it's weird that JA didn't just tell him to ring the doorbell and she'd be right there. Who gives directions to their room?

Is she asking him for cleaning supplies over a period of days? Or just hours? Do we have any clue as to what evil was in the making? "Cos there sure had to be some kind of evil in the offing if her strategy had suddenly switched from "his place" to "my place".

Maybe he banned her from his house?
 
And then, on May 13 he goes the one step way too far. He sets her up, and he involves a friend to do so. The two spend almost an entire day mocking her, provoking her, ridiculing her, and at the end, rubbing her nose in it.

Everyone was going to find out. And Travis had demonstrated utter contempt for her, and as bad, that he could no longer be readily controlled. No positives were left, as she told him on May 26.

Just rage and resolve to make him suffer as much as he had caused her to, and then death because it was high time for her to move on.

BBM. Could you explain bolded? Somehow that went over my head. Was this the "secret woman who in secret went to his house secretly" cloak-and-daggerishly one night in May-ish?

If this is the drama you are referring to, it's interesting that TA tried to knock Jodi off balance with a parody of Jodi drama.
 
GRRR, I hate looking for something and spending so much time on it, only to fail. Does anyone have (readily on hand) the info about this? TIA.


Quote Originally Posted by Val1

I would like to know if JM knows whether this KW guy is the same person that JA identified as MM's "roommate" from the night before she left for Mesa.
 
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