OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #2

[renah]

Yeah, in theory it doesn't. But he would have acted differently if he was intending to protect anyone. His car had stopped and then he took off and started a chase again. That sort of thing could have gotten everybody in the car killed and taken a few LE with them.

He did not have protection on his mind.

MOO.

Maybe. One thing that struck me though was how long the vehicle he was in -- at the front of the line, mind you-- sat there with no LE involvement while the cars behind him were totally streaming with officers securing & processing the occupants.

Here we had a known conspiracy theory loony sitting there watching others being pulled & processed yet noone is approaching HIS vehicle which actually is first in line. I can only imagine the rising tension he felt while stalled there, waiting.

But I do believe the Feds and their profilers should have been acutely aware of an already paranoid person's probable reaction... Cut and run.

 

[Fred Hall]

Yeah, the video.

The video has no audio. We cannot hear what anyone is saying.

 

[Montjoy]

How can information like the GPS coordinates be sensitive information? They have already reported were the incident took place. I call BS on that. It’s just a typical LE cover up.

Anyway my main problem is them keeping the video for a day, editing it, and then calling it complete unedited video, when it’s not. How is anyone supposed to know what else they might have edited out of the video, while they were at it?

As I'm sure you know, I always like when you bring the (Ka)Boom down. But I have to ask some questions here.

First, do we know, or are we just supposing, that the blocked out parts of the video are things like GPS coordinates? Perhaps the blacked out portions refer to names, etc., that are preserved as private. Or, perhaps, the coordinates are blacked out because they reference, at times, properties belonging to citizens. I don't know, either way...I'm just throwing this out there. I do think that in some cases, GPS coordinates are sensitive data. Let's put it this way -- if drones were sweeping over some privately owned land, onto some publicly owned land, the government would be obliged to conceal anything that might reveal information about the privately owned land contiguous to the publicly owned land. That's how it is supposed to work, as inconvenient as it is for sleuthers.

 

[Fairy1]

The video has no audio. We cannot hear what anyone is saying.

True enough. But we can make an educated guess, don't you think?

We can also make an educated guess concerning LaVoy's state of mind and his intentions, based on his own words and actions, and the simple fact that he was armed from the moment he arrived at the refuge.

 

[Fred Hall]

Does anyone have any theories on how Ryan Bundy was injured?

 

[Fred Hall]

True enough. But we can make an educated guess, don't you think?

We can also make an educated guess concerning LaVoy's state of mind and his intentions, based on his own words and actions, and the simple fact that he was armed from the moment he arrived at the refuge.

We certainly can guess. But an educated guess falls well short of "proof".

 

[bluesneakers]

Does anyone have any theories on how Ryan Bundy was injured?

Not yet. I've only heard the one witness account and haven't read anything else yet.

You?

 

[Fred Hall]

<modsnip>

LaVoy was as mad as a bag of frogs. Nobody is denying that. However, the justifiability of the shooting hinges on whether he was shot before or after he lowered his hands. Bundy backers are speculating that he may been shot with his hands up and lowered his hands to clutch at the injury. A bit of a stretch, but we cannot rule it out with just the silent aerial footage.

 

[Montjoy]

LaVoy was as mad as a bag of frogs. Nobody is denying that. However, the justifiability of the shooting hinges on whether he was shot before or after he lowered his hands. Bundy backers are speculating that he may been shot with his hands up and lowered his hands to clutch at the injury. A bit of a stretch, but we cannot rule it out with just the silent aerial footage.

I hear you, and I contend that this shooting must be judged by the same standards as any other shooting. And I suspect that everyone else here feels the same...even though some people may think that there should be a slimmer trigger for terrorists, as these folks surely are/were.

 

[Fred Hall]

Not yet. I've only heard the one witness account and haven't read anything else yet.

You?

Maybe hit by flying glass? I doubt flashbangs produce shrapnel, and Agent Bretzing made no mention of live rounds being fired into the car.

 

[KaaBoom]

Does anyone have any theories on how Ryan Bundy was injured?

I don&#8217;t know but I bet it happened at 09:59 in the video.

[video=youtube;aAGxDWKrjPQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ[/video]

 

[Cricket99]

Unfortunately, he could be saying, "Have a nice day." and go for his gun to kill the officer. It is the actions/body movement that counts not the words. If he goes for his waist band (even once) and they think he might be going for his gun, all bets are off. It is often discussed here that it is a split second decision and that suspects should know they have to yield. I guess I am a little surprised that a number of people question this shooting as non-necessary. In other cases where there was not a belief that a suspect even had a gun but was non-compliant, many folks stood on the side of LEO must protect themselves and the suspect should know to put their hands up and follow all commands.

I have no doubt that this man was having some medical issues. That said, he created a situation where the officer felt threatened and fired. I believe it may have been what he wanted. I am sad for his family.

I am also sad for the officer who is doing his job and is now having his professionalism questioned.

I agree - he was seen many times on camera with 4 weapons attached to his body and one rifle in his hands. He had a gun right where he put his hand. What would you think? It is kind of obvious after his other actions IMO.

 

[Hope4More]

I can't figure out what he was doing. Maybe trying to sneak up on Finicum, but I don't know what good that would do.

And what was he holding in his left hand?

What was he trying to do? To form a perimeter. He wasn't trying to sneak up on the felon. He broke towards the felon when the felon made the threatening move of putting his arms down and reaching into his coat.

 

[Hope4More]

I hear you, and I contend that this shooting must be judged by the same standards as any other shooting. And I suspect that everyone else here feels the same...even though some people may think that there should be a slimmer trigger for terrorists, as these folks surely are/were.

The one gigantic difference between this and most other LE involved shooting- -the Feds went waaaaaay out of the way to resolve this without bloodshed. They didn't want dead bodies because they didnt- and don't --want martyrs.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Strategy for Oregon standoff arrests: 'The best way is to divide and conquer'
By Maxine Bernstein | The Oregonian/OregonLive
on January 29, 2016 at 2:47 PM, updated January 29, 2016 at 5:38 PM

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/strategy_for_oregon_standoff_a.html

Slow motion, greatly enlarged video.

RSBM

Bumping. Its much easier to see his hand/arm movements in the slow motion video at the link.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[bluesneakers]

What was he trying to do? To form a perimeter. He wasn't trying to sneak up on the felon. He broke towards the felon when the felon made the threatening move of putting his arms down and reaching into his coat.

I think he could have stayed where he was and shot Finicum from there. To me it looks like his movement is what prompted Finicum to attempt to fire his weapon. He already had him covered, and it seems risky, imo, to approach him like that when he knew he was armed. But that's also why I'm wondering what he was holding in his other hand. Maybe that would explain why he approached Finicum the way he did.

 

[KaaBoom]

As I'm sure you know, I always like when you bring the (Ka)Boom down. But I have to ask some questions here.

First, do we know, or are we just supposing, that the blocked out parts of the video are things like GPS coordinates? Perhaps the blacked out portions refer to names, etc., that are preserved as private. Or, perhaps, the coordinates are blacked out because they reference, at times, properties belonging to citizens. I don't know, either way...I'm just throwing this out there. I do think that in some cases, GPS coordinates are sensitive data. Let's put it this way -- if drones were sweeping over some privately owned land, onto some publicly owned land, the government would be obliged to conceal anything that might reveal information about the privately owned land contiguous to the publicly owned land. That's how it is supposed to work, as inconvenient as it is for sleuthers.

From other similar videos I have seen the data usually includes time, date, GPS, speed, direction of travel, flight information like altitude and lots of other technical information that I don’t understand. I have no idea why they would go through the trouble of blocking out that type of information. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Just like it doesn’t make sense to me why they edit videos and then claim they are unedited. Do they seriously think people are not going to notice? I don’t know.

 

[i.b.nora]

LaVoy on Lawrence O'Donnell program.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/armed-oregon-protester-talks-to-msnbc-596500035577

 

[bluesneakers]

From other similar videos I have seen the data usually includes time, date, GPS, speed, direction of travel, flight information like altitude and lots of other technical information that I don&#8217;t understand. I have no idea why they would go through the trouble of blocking out that type of information. It doesn&#8217;t make any sense to me. Just like it doesn&#8217;t make sense to me why they edit videos and then claim they are unedited. Do they seriously think people are not going to notice? I don&#8217;t know.

I think some of it is sensitive information (maybe referencing the case or identifying the aircraft and pilot?) and instead of blocking out only that they just blocked out everything.

 

[Hope4More]

I'd like to think that it's possible to sincerely disagree about the actions of LE without getting personal or disrespectful, either in words or emoticons.
JMO, MOO and all that.

One would think so. In any case, I have no interest in looking to find fault with LE after they have largely resolved, peacefully, a situation that could have resulted in a great deal of bloodshed and additional damage to fragile and sacred land.

The only sympathy I have is for the people of Burns, who still don't have their town back, and for the Native people there whose artifacts were desecrated by violent, racist, antisemitic cretins.