ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #19

[Deleted member 102539]

In checking with Idaho Repository I find Jessica is going through her divorce and losing custody of her children about the same time she's beginning her relationship with VDK and her ensuing pregnancy with Deorr. It must have been so stressful. I can't imagine.

Apropos: Did ever a thought pop up around JM's ex and any visitation rights (JM) re her older children ...?

 

[OakingtonAve]

Facebook pictures- my house looks spotless, my kids are mostly clean and dressed, and everyone is smiling. Reality- the house isn't that clean, my kids painted their face with washable markers and weren't wearing pants, and the chances of getting 3 kids to smile for a single picture...slim.




I'm thinking that SB is holding back and taking the safe(r) route. I don't think he wants to publicly crucify the parents, but he also feels the need to keep the public somewhat educated. He also can't jeopardize evidence or the case as a whole.

I think Klein is trying to win a popularity contest to gain business. I think he's picking and choosing answers and statements to get everyone roped in and speculating and questioning things. Look at what he's done for speculation today. He's caused all the nitwits (his word not mine!) to speculate on everything and then comes back and chastises everyone for speculating and starting rumors. I certainly don't blame IR's lawyer for keeping IR away from him.

So adorable re your house and kids xxxx

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yea that exact replica thing has always seemed odd to me. So now it makes me think maybe in fact it was an exact replica, otherwise why wouldnt you just say it was Deorr's baby blanket?

Maybe the blanket was important to little Deorr when he got tired near nap or sleeping time. But if someone would him show "minnows" or something or he was playing with his toy cars or/or/or, then I think he wouldn't have need his blanket. There are pics enough of little Deorr without his "special" blanket.
I think, the parents wanted underpin the idea of "kidnapping/abduction" only.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

So, I have poured through several pictures on Facebook and there are many, MANY pictures of DeOrr with his half brother and sister. There are also lots of pictures with Jessica, DeOrr (Vernal), little DeOrr and his half brother and sister. Regardless of what PI Vilt said about her, I'm really just not getting the impression from all of those pictures that Jessica didn't want kids. I don't know the circumstances as to why she doesn't have custody of them, but it's very apparent that she spends time with them and that they know their little half brother, DeOrr.

From this "missing" poster: http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/de...5af96326f07014c967a97628b29.jpg?itok=rsBfVGG_, the picture of little DeOrr to the right where he is wearing the teal t-shirt, that is from a camping trip he took in the summer of 2014 with Jessica, his two half siblings, Jessica's mom (Trina), Trina's husband (don't know his name), and great grandpa (Trina's dad - yes, the one who was on last summer's ill fated camping trip). There are 30 pictures open to the public to prove it.

It's always struck me as odd that they referred to him as a 3 year old, yet used a pic of him as a 1 year old for the missing poster. Like you said, there were PLENTY of pics available for the missing poster, so why use one where he's much smaller than he is now, and at the same time be giving off the impression that he's bigger than he actually is by calling him 3?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Why is Klein coming out and saying the story about the exploring, fishing, leaving child with GGP was all dismissed. Is he just jumping the gun? SB has not said that and you'd think he'd let SB the one to announce that, being that's the story SB has given/believed all along.

Just seems odd to me.

A brand new cognition, since there are more witnesses than before?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

SABBM

So, how many people were there at some point at that campsite ? 8 ?
And what were they doing ; apparently NOT camping , imo; as only gear for the four was packed.

How can these investigators possibly begin to ferret out the truth when there are so many versions of what exactly happened to this missing baby ?
Not to mention they may have been told something far from the truth ?
:moo:

It sounds like they left the camp at 8 am. Probably IR and GGP verified this part and say that's when they last saw DeOrr.

The 4 witnesses are probably people who saw them in town and didn't see DeOrr with them, so that's why they're going back to 8 am as the last known time. Then they go forward to 2:30ish when the 911 call happened.

Seems like VDK and JM are the only ones claiming to have seen him during that time period, and LE doesn't believe them.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Another thing that strikes me odd:

WHY were polygraphs administered to IR and GGP when they *knew* they would come back inconclusive. Further, they gave them additional poly's!

Because if they hadn't, then when someone is charged, they could say LE didn't do a thorough investigation.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Is it just me or is the timeline as confusing as ever?!

4 minutes, 17, 40, 1 hour, 3 hours, 4 hours, and now over 6 hours...

Has anybody here got an actual clue what the heck is going on?!

 

[CarmelEyesD]

My mind is going to some really bad places..really bad scenarios. where there may have been a 'need' for a cover-up.

scenario 1...GGP is chopping wood, and DeOrr runs in the way, too late to stop the ax from falling.

scenario 2- someone is angry and throws the ax, or throws it down, and it fatally strikes DeOrr.

scenario 3-Everyone is drunk or passed out on some intoxicant..perhaps at the camp, or even down by the creek if DeOrr is asleep and 'safe'. DeOrr falls into the fire and is fatally burned before anyone notices or sees him. Or if they are deeply asleep and/or passed out, they don't know til they wake up in the morning.

I can't get these images out of my brain, and I am sure there are more ready to follow..

 

[Deleted member 102539]

If VDK's truck used diesel and the diesel they bought was put in a can (I don't know that it was) I wouldn't find that suspicious. We always carried extra diesel in cans in the back of our diesel truck when we were RVing. Cheap insurance if there's none available. I don't think they burned up little DeOrr's body, although anything is possible at this point! JMO

Maybe VDK needed more stock of diesel, IF the parents with little Deorr planned to disappear from camp in the early Friday morning (8am or earlier) and showing up at camp by 1:30pm, telling they had been "as a family" to the shop at Leadore. Then making GGP and IR believe that little Deorr just was having his nap time in the truck although the child hadn't returned to the camp. - Little Deorr could be ca. 2,5 driving hours away from the camp.

 

[bessie]

I'd like to know why Klein is coming out with this IR and the parents fishing story being false. Not that I don't believe him but then what was SB going on about the other night? Didn't he say pretty much that was still the story? And in fact isn't SB the only one to have told us that fishing story? And also SB said that his time line was about three hours where Kleins was four....now Kleins is like seven hours. WTH? Do these two just disagree on a few things or is SB holding back? Or is Klein maybe jumping the gun?

It's still the story as far as the parents and IR are concerned. SB didn't confirm that information as absolute fact.

SB: Sure. You know basically we’ve tried to narrow the timeline down from the time they actually realized he was missing or when they claim that he was missing and they didn’t find him, and from that time period of when they searched and then when they called 911. We’ve been trying to narrow that timeline down.

SB: No, not exactly, but from the time that they’re saying he disappeared and until my office and Search & Rescue showed up, we have a 3-hour window, so there’s a lot of time in between to have something happen and when he possibly disappeared.

SB: The mother said that they got back at 1:10 p.m. Isaac doesn’t dispute that. He’s not watching a clock or a watch or anything of that sort, but he concurs that it was around that time period. They got back shortly after 1:00 p.m. The parents decide to go down to the creek to go fishing. Deorr remains behind. He’s not real privy to what the conversation was between grandpa and the parents, but he knows that just the three of them go down to the creek—Mom, Dad & Isaac.


I don't know whether or not they disagree. However, SB is telling us the story as related by the four adults. At the same time, without being specific, he lets us know that their stories don't add up. The parents have not been truthful in crucial areas of the questioning, and IR's account is inconsistent. So as a law enforcement official, being scrupulous and cautious, he is as you say, "holding back" to a certain extent, and rightfully so.

Klein, on the other hand, a private investigator, is flat out calling BS.

Being old school, I often find myself these days at odds with the public nature of private investigations. If he can assist in solving this tragedy without interfering in the judicial process, then so be it. Social media has spawned a new paradigm, I guess.

As for the expanding timeline, if I understand Klein correctly, that's based on information recently obtained from witnesses, like in the past week. I can buy that. Then there's the physical evidence that he says came about after SB's statement that there was none. Does anything stand out about this statement?

PGB - Mr Klein, you have stated that you have new physical evidence yet sheriff Bowerman said there is no physical evidence. Can you elaborate on this? Or was the evidence you referred to the polygraph information?

Klein Investigations and Consulting Again - from the time of that statement to the flux of the case daily - we have turned over items to the FBI and it is being looked at in Q Virginia. We will not comment on what that is.

 

[bessie]

It sounds like they left the camp at 8 am. Probably IR and GGP verified this part and say that's when they last saw DeOrr.

The 4 witnesses are probably people who saw them in town and didn't see DeOrr with them, so that's why they're going back to 8 am as the last known time. Then they go forward to 2:30ish when the 911 call happened.

Seems like VDK and JM are the only ones claiming to have seen him during that time period, and LE doesn't believe them.

IR hasn't talked to Klein. He has spoken with LE, and claims he saw DeOrr after the trip to the store, which he agrees probably was about 1:10 P.M. or so.

 

[redheart]

As for the expanding timeline, if I understand Klein correctly, that's based on information recently obtained from witnesses, like in the past week. I can buy that. Then there's the physical evidence that he says came about after SB's statement that there was none. Does anything stand out about this statement?

PGB - Mr Klein, you have stated that you have new physical evidence yet sheriff Bowerman said there is no physical evidence. Can you elaborate on this? Or was the evidence you referred to the polygraph information?

Klein Investigations and Consulting Again - from the time of that statement to the flux of the case daily - we have turned over items to the FBI and it is being looked at in Q Virginia. We will not comment on what that is.

RSBM
UBM: Klein's team found evidence recently?????

 

[ILOKAL]

I started visiting websleuths when a local case of a missing person went unsolved several years ago. I only visited sporadically until I heard of this case while on vacation. My thoughts prompted me to register several months ago, but this is my first post. I've not yet caught up on posts today, but other than that I've read every thread.

The first thing I thought of when I saw the very first interview with the parents was the "Balloon Boy" case from 2009. DK's demeanor just reminded me so much of how that father acted. It was like he was finally having his "moment." I think it's possible that this started out as a hoax for attention or money and something went terribly wrong. JM and DK may or may not have known that something had gone wrong in that first interview. They may have truly believed that he would be found at that point. Maybe they handed him off to someone who was supposed to return him to a certain place where he could be "found" alive and unharmed after they had their "moment," but that person didn't follow the plan and either abducted or harmed Deorr.

I know this seems far-fetched, but I just can't get past how much this reminded me of the balloon boy case.

I doubt many, if any, will agree, but I have a different take on that first interview. A couple of days ago I re-watched both versions, first the edited, then the un-edited. I hadn't watched them since shortly after the interview was given. I think I realize why Vernal was so animated in his comments about the incredible search teams and the technology. Their little boy went missing in the forest and they had no idea where he was. But after seeing how precise the search teams, dogs, FLIR, divers, etc. seemed to be in trying to locate DeOrr and then being told that he was no where in the search area, Vernal (and Jessica) were excited and relieved in "knowing" that DeOrr wasn't lost in the vast forest after all. The alternative, of course, was abduction, but at that point in time, that was a much better alternative which left them, as Vernal said, with hope, which was all they had.

 

[wondering25]

When was the last time ANYONE saw the baby? he lived with Vernal's family. When was the last time THEY saw him?

 

[pepelepolecat]

I believe ATVs use diesel.

Usually regular gas.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Haven't been able to read here since last weekend. What's this about one of the three 911 calls coming from GGP? Is that fact? If so, why didn't he know the parents already called? Was he thinking that the parents wouldn't call as "quickly" as they did?

 

[ILOKAL]

It seems as though the working timeline from Bowerman is calculated differently than the working timeline from Klein. Whereas Bowerman's ends when LE arrives (3 hrs after the 911 calls), Klein's ends when the first 911 call is made.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Facebook pictures- my house looks spotless, my kids are mostly clean and dressed, and everyone is smiling. Reality- the house isn't that clean, my kids painted their face with washable markers and weren't wearing pants, and the chances of getting 3 kids to smile for a single picture...slim.




I'm thinking that SB is holding back and taking the safe(r) route. I don't think he wants to publicly crucify the parents, but he also feels the need to keep the public somewhat educated. He also can't jeopardize evidence or the case as a whole.

I think Klein is trying to win a popularity contest to gain business. I think he's picking and choosing answers and statements to get everyone roped in and speculating and questioning things. Look at what he's done for speculation today. He's caused all the nitwits (his word not mine!) to speculate on everything and then comes back and chastises everyone for speculating and starting rumors. I certainly don't blame IR's lawyer for keeping IR away from him.

The first part of your post made me laugh -- I am the queen of shamecropping. And one of my favorite pics of my kids was on an outing last year, and we didn't think to take pictures until the very end when everyone was hot and tired. So two of my kids have bravely worked up a smile for the camera while the third has this incredibly "SO OVER IT" look on his face. It's hilarious.

re: The last part of your post -- Klein swooped in condemning everyone and their SM rumors, but he's done quite a bit to fan those fires, hasn't he?

moo

 

[leep]

With his boots being 3 sizes larger than he wore, I just can't think that he wandered through the woods very far without either losing one or both or simply taking them off as they'd be floppy.
I also think boots that much too big would trip him up and make him fall, and what two year old wouldn't cry when they fell while walking in the woods? My grandchild sometimes puts on a real production when she trips and falls even in the living room, lol. She's two, everything is major and there's lots of "let me kiss it" to make it all better.
Also, wasn't Mom adamant that DeOrr stuck like glue to his parents? I'd think that he'd be heard crying if he got out of their sight, especially if he did take a tumble and would have likely been a bit testy so close to nap time.
Just some thoughts that have been going through my mind from being around a little one of that age.

Yes the boots were the main reason i didn't believe he just wandered off they would've been found without a doubt.