Does Pam Paugh Know Anything About JB's Murder?

[THE BUNK]

^^This.

They/she would also have not left the body in their home, knowing that it would incriminate them. If Patsy knew Jonbenet was in the basement and would be found, wouldn't she have gone down there to "discover" it herself?

They may not have had a choice. Keep in mind that leaving the ransom note while the body is in the house makes no sense in both the RDI and IDI theories. The difference is that the intruder can bring the body with him and dump it without ever returning to the Ramsey House. The Ramseys don't have that luxury.

You also have to consider that John may not have told Patsy where JonBenet's body was. I think the issue of disposing of Patsy's body may have a huge issue with them. Patsy wanted her to have a "proper burial", while John wanted to bury her while he supposedly went to the ransom drop. This was the big mistake they made. They became sentimental over their daughters body.

 

[Annapurna]

I strongly agree with you BUNK. The mention of the proper burial is right there in the note!!! This clearly indicates that they were already thinking of that. I believe that PR's religious nature would not allow her to deny her beloved daughter a proper burial. I don't think the R's wanted any harm to come to JB, and once it did I don't think they wanted to do anything drastic to the body. If it were left outside, she would be in the elements (it was 8 degrees that night), exposed to animals etc. The killer, whoever you think they are, clearly took care with her body. She was cleaned, redressed, wrapped in her personal blanket. She was still very precious to them, of course.

More cynical people also like to suggest that PR wanted one last show for JB, one last pageant as it were. She got to wear her veil & be supported by her friends. While I disagree that the supposed motivation behind this was PR's desire for attention alone, I do agree that the ceremony aspect was likely very important to her. She was now an angel, still perfect and beautiful in death.

I disagree entirely with the idea that the R's would have thought this would incriminate them (after all, look at this scary note!!! no parents could ever do this!). I think the personal motivations of putting their angel to rest overrode any idea of what LE thought.

I actually give some credence to the idea that there was a disagreement between PR & JR on what to do with the body, JR saying what you said, its incriminating & PR was desperate to not lose her baby again and put her out in the elements. This difference of opinions may have lead to the 911 call. Just a theory though.

 

[Annapurna]

I strongly agree with you BUNK. The mention of the proper burial is right there in the note!!! This clearly indicates that they were already thinking of that. I believe that PR's religious nature would not allow her to deny her beloved daughter a proper burial. I don't think the R's wanted any harm to come to JB, and once it did I don't think they wanted to do anything drastic to the body. If it were left outside, she would be in the elements (it was 8 degrees that night), exposed to animals etc. The killer, whoever you think they are, clearly took care with her body. She was cleaned, redressed, wrapped in her personal blanket. She was still very precious to them, of course.

More cynical people also like to suggest that PR wanted one last show for JB, one last pageant as it were. She got to wear her veil & be supported by her friends. While I disagree that the supposed motivation behind this was PR's desire for attention alone, I do agree that the ceremony aspect was likely very important to her. She was now an angel, still perfect and beautiful in death.

I disagree entirely with the idea that the R's would have thought this would incriminate them (after all, look at this scary note!!! no parents could ever do this!). I think the personal motivations of putting their angel to rest overrode any idea of what LE thought.

I actually give some credence to the idea that there was a disagreement between PR & JR on what to do with the body, JR saying what you said, its incriminating & PR was desperate to not lose her baby again and put her out in the elements. This difference of opinions may have lead to the 911 call. Just a theory though.

 

[TheCuriousFrog]

Why leave a ransom note period? Why not just dispose of the body and report her missing? Why spend money on all those Xmas presents if they were just planning on killing her? If she was killed in "rage", maybe it would make sense for the blow to the head but it was the strangulation which killed her. How could they/he/she plan the murder in that small window of time between the party at the Whites and the next morning? Where did the unidentified boot mark come from?

Why were they cleared if they actually did it? Never have I heard of anyone being able to outsmart detectives in such a high profile investigation. They were the first suspects, so you're telling me that after 19 years the judge and everyone else is just letting them get away with murder?

 

[BBB167893]

Why leave a ransom note period?

Because without it, all you'd have is a dead girl in her home with sexual injuries.

Why not just dispose of the body and report her missing?

Too much risk of being spotted. To say nothing about how the body would be ravaged.

Why spend money on all those Xmas presents if they were just planning on killing her?

I don't think they planned to killer her at all.

If she was killed in "rage", maybe it would make sense for the blow to the head but it was the strangulation which killed her.

They probably didn't know that. To someone who was not a medical professional, she would have appeared dead.

Where did the unidentified boot mark come from?

It's not unidentified. It was matched to Burke 13 years ago.

Why were they cleared if they actually did it?

That answer would take an entire book.

Never have I heard of anyone being able to outsmart detectives in such a high profile investigation.

That's just it, The CuriousFrog: they didn't outsmart the detectives. They out-lawyered, out-cajoled and just flat out-bullsh***ed the DA's office. Money can do that.

They were the first suspects, so you're telling me that after 19 years the judge and everyone else is just letting them get away with murder?

I think the late Willie Nelson summed it up:

All the Federales say
They could have had him any day
They only let him slip away
Out of kindness I suppose

 

[Ellie9]

That answer would take an entire book.

...

Money can do that.

Great post. I wanted to say you'd be surprised what rich people can get away with. Rich people without a criminal history are almost untouchable. I even know firsthand that rich people can easily hide abuse from authorities. I was raised in a wealthy household, and no one would have known what went on behind closed doors. I even told a therapist about this as a child, and you know what happened? Nothing. I never saw the therapist again after this. I don't think he was killed, but I think paid off for sure.

One of the IDI theorists biggest points is that they believe there is no history of abuse. Well, you'd be surprised how often abuse goes completely under the radar, but especially with wealthy families. I think part of the reason why I am obsessed with this case is because I know the inner workings of wealthy families, and I feel like I can relate to JonBenet in many ways.

(My first post, hi, )

 

[BBB167893]

Great post. I wanted to say you'd be surprised what rich people can get away with. Rich people without a criminal history are almost untouchable. I even know firsthand that rich people can easily hide abuse from authorities. I was raised in a wealthy household, and no one would have known what went on behind closed doors. I even told a therapist about this as a child, and you know what happened? Nothing. I never saw the therapist again after this. I don't think he was killed, but I think paid off for sure.

One of the IDI theorists biggest points is that they believe there is no history of abuse. Well, you'd be surprised how often abuse goes completely under the radar, but especially with wealthy families. I think part of the reason why I am obsessed with this case is because I know the inner workings of wealthy families, and I feel like I can relate to JonBenet in many ways.

(My first post, hi, )

Let me be the first to extend the hand of friendship.

 

[Ellie9]

Let me be the first to extend the hand of friendship.

Thank you SuperDave! I may not have much to say but I love reading everyone's theories and ideas on this case (and others).

 

[andreww]

Thank you SuperDave! I may not have much to say but I love reading everyone's theories and ideas on this case (and others).

And Dave loves flirting with girls from wealthy families [emoji7]


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[BBB167893]

And Dave loves flirting with girls from wealthy families [emoji7]


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[video=youtube;WJZY__j0Tyk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJZY__j0Tyk[/video]

 

[Flatlander]

Hello, It has been awhile since I last visited this site. I was wondering a few things:
1) was the imprint on JB's back actually an imprint of BR's toy train track?
2) Do we know who sat outside JB's bedroom? I.E. imprints on carpet
3) Was the rope tested for particles that shouldn't have been on it? If so, do we know what they found?
4) Is is at all possible that Patsy got very angry with JB and that is where the triangle mark came from on her neck? Grabbed her sweater, twisted it and caught her skin in it?
5) Is it the opinion of any or many that JR was the sexual abuser in this case?

Thanks!

 

[andreww]

Hello, It has been awhile since I last visited this site. I was wondering a few things:
1) was the imprint on JB's back actually an imprint of BR's toy train track?

That is a theory. The measurements add up, but I'm sure many things do as well.

2) Do we know who sat outside JB's bedroom? I.E. imprints on carpet

This is new to me, but is there any way to prove how long carpet impressions have actually been there?

3) Was the rope tested for particles that shouldn't have been on it? If so, do we know what they found?

I believe fibres from Patsy's sweater were found entwined in the rope.

4) Is is at all possible that Patsy got very angry with JB and that is where the triangle mark came from on her neck? Grabbed her sweater, twisted it and caught her skin in it?

It is certainly possible. It also may have been from Burke. It has also been shown that similar marks are quite common on people that have been strangled with a cord.

5) Is it the opinion of any or many that JR was the sexual abuser in this case?

Take your pick. The odd person thinks its was Patsy but the majority feel it was either John or Burke.

 

[BoldBear]

This is new to me, but is there any way to prove how long carpet impressions have actually been there?

This was referenced in Kolar's book. It's described as hearsay. Ann Lacy thought Tom Wickman had reported buttox imprints on the carpet outside JBR's bedroom. It supported AL's the intruder theory where the intruder broke-in when the Ramseys were at the Whites. When Kolar approached Wickman and asked him about it directly, Wickman didn't know anything about it. Kolar couldn't find any supporting evidence in the reports. No supporting witness. No evidence. Just hearsay.

 

[andreww]

This was referenced in Kolar's book. It's described as hearsay. Ann Lacy thought Tom Wickman had reported buttox imprints on the carpet outside JBR's bedroom. It supported AL's the intruder theory where the intruder broke-in when the Ramseys were at the Whites. When Kolar approached Wickman and asked him about it directly, Wickman didn't know anything about it. Kolar couldn't find any supporting evidence in the reports. No supporting witness. No evidence. Just hearsay.

Lol, buttocks imprints? What kind of cheap *advertiser censored* carpet did the Ramsey's have in that place?


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[THE BUNK]

Lol, buttocks imprints? What kind of cheap *advertiser censored* carpet did the Ramsey's have in that place?


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I'm laughing just imagining forensics trying to match "butt-prints". John? Patsy? Burke? we need something else from you guys....LOL

Police: "We don't have a lot on our suspect...but he had a huge *advertiser censored*! That's all we know for now. " LOL

 

[OliviaG1996]

I'm laughing just imagining forensics trying to match "butt-prints". John? Patsy? Burke? we need something else from you guys....LOL

Police: "We don't have a lot on our suspect...but he had a huge *advertiser censored*! That's all we know for now. " LOL

BBM: :floorlaugh::hilarious::floorlaugh:

Aside from trying not to spit up my water from laughter, I'm wondering about Ann Lacy's IDI theory where the intruder would be sitting outside of JBR's bedroom waiting for the Rs to arrive. Why would the intruder be sitting in plain sight instead of hiding in a closet, under a bed, etc.? Waiting outside a bedroom? Apparently this intruder was very smart in the forensics department, not so much in the common sense one.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

"Butt Prints" --- better than tdna

 

[DeeDee249]

Thought I'd stop in.....OK, bye.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Thought I'd stop in.....OK, bye.

DD .. yr posts are real thoughtful and insightful .. hope you pop in
:wave:

 

[Foreign Faction]

Hell ya! She removed the G-D murder weapon most likely!