ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

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It is hard to imagine that anyone will be charged with murder. The child was 2 and 1/2. The parents have not turned on each other. The possibility always exists that he is somewhere up there and fell prey to the elements, animals, the water whatever. There is no body. The parents say abduction. What jury member would convict on these ambiguous details? It appears LE and the PI have decided to turn up the heat. i dont think it is going to work. JMO
 
It is hard to imagine that anyone will be charged with murder. The child was 2 and 1/2. The parents have not turned on each other. The possibility always exists that he is somewhere up there and fell prey to the elements, animals, the water whatever. There is no body. The parents say abduction. What jury member would convict on these ambiguous details? It appears LE and the PI have decided to turn up the heat. i dont think it is going to work. JMO

There is EVIDENCE.
 
Repeating what JM and DK said they did over and over again is getting us nowhere. Everything from LE and PIs says they LIED. That's what untruthful means.

Yeah and I'm thinking Klein might be right about the whole timeline from 8am being a myth (just my interpretation of what he said about that), because SB said they couldn't get their story straight about who made breakfast, who carried the fishing poles and so on... If they're lying about breakfast, it seems likely that the whole timeline for that day is a lie.
 
Yeah and I'm thinking Klein might be right about the whole timeline from 8am being a myth (just my interpretation of what he said about that), because SB said they couldn't get their story straight about who made breakfast, who carried the fishing poles and so on... If they're lying about breakfast, it seems likely that the whole timeline for that day is a lie.

Exactly!
 
Interesting the distant language

"that little boy"

I say stuff like that about my daughter - the girl, that girl, my girl - and it's not about distant language. I even say "Your daughter" to my husband. Not in the "She's yours" way but in general in place of her name.

IMO him saying "That little boy" is the same as saying "my little boy" or "my great-grandson."

Especially considering everything else about his statement is personal and touching.
 
I just thought of a no-body child murder case. April Jones in the UK. She was seen getting into the suspect's car, and LE found blood and bone fragments from her in his house... So that was good evidence that she was dead. But the perpetrator claimed that he had accidentally hit her with his car and then blacked out and didn't remember what he did with the body. Still, in 2013 a jury convicted him of murder and sentenced him to life in prison... Not manslaughter or abuse of a corpse, but murder.
 
I just thought of a no-body child murder case. April Jones in the UK. She was seen getting into the suspect's car, and LE found blood and bone fragments from her in his house... So that was good evidence that she was dead. But the perpetrator claimed that he had accidentally hit her with his car and then blacked out and didn't remember what he did with the body. Still, in 2013 a jury convicted him of murder and sentenced him to life in prison... Not manslaughter or abuse of a corpse, but murder.

Just from what you've said, I would have convicted him of murder too No reason to have those things in your house or car and blacking out is BS we all know that.
 
It is hard to imagine that anyone will be charged with murder. The child was 2 and 1/2. The parents have not turned on each other. The possibility always exists that he is somewhere up there and fell prey to the elements, animals, the water whatever. There is no body. The parents say abduction. What jury member would convict on these ambiguous details? It appears LE and the PI have decided to turn up the heat. i dont think it is going to work. JMO

I don't think LE would name them as suspects just to "turn up the heat". There are legal ramifications to naming someone a suspect. It's not something they do on a whim. IMO they have a lot of confirmed details that they are not telling the public about.
 
Just looked for some more cases... 2 year old Blanca Jones. Her father said he was carjacked and she was abducted. The prosecution said he beat her to death over a toilet training accident. Her mother thinks she was abducted or sold and is still alive. Her father sticks to the car-jacking story.

Her body was never found, but a jury of 12 unanimously found Lane guilty in what Judge Vonda Evans deemed a "largely circumstantial" case...

"You have yet to bring any evidence forth that says my daughter is dead," Lane said during his sentencing. "You have yet to bring any evidence forth that says I abused my child. Discipline, yes, I discipline all my children... My child is alive."...

Judge Evans imposed a mandatory life sentence without a chance of parole.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2012/12/judge_says_dandre_lane_carried.html
 
Since no one has ever been charged with Ayla Jennings' death, making this case a murder case seems unlikely to me. I am sure Ayla died under the care of her father, blood was found, and ridiculous claims of her being "taken" from a houseful of people. Also, Lisa Irwin. Adults in those, and too many other cases, simply carry on with their lives, have more kids, etc...jmo. Casey Anthony was one who WAS charged, based on her being a liar, and look how that turned out...
 
3 year old Kendrick Jackson. His father Roderick Fountain was convicted of first degree murder. Kendrick was never found.

Fountain told police in 2006 that his son left his apartment while he was doing laundry. Police believe Fountain killed Kendrick and then hid the boy's body. Witnesses said they saw bruises on the boy's body before he went missing, according to prosecutors.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/mom-testifies-in-trial-of-kendrick-jacksons-father

I have a feeling that LE have witnesses to what happened... Not necessarily witnesses who saw a murder, but witnesses who saw DeOrr with bruises or being neglected, saw the parents acting strangely after his disappearance, have overheard incriminating conversations... Plus there might be incriminating text messages or Google searches. That would count as forensic evidence I think.
 
Since no one has ever been charged with Ayla Jennings' death, making this case a murder case seems unlikely to me. I am sure Ayla died under the care of her father, blood was found, and ridiculous claims of her being "taken" from a houseful of people. Also, Lisa Irwin. Adults in those, and too many other cases, simply carry on with their lives, have more kids, etc...jmo. Casey Anthony was one who WAS charged, based on her being a liar, and look how that turned out...

Yes, it's risky. IMO that's why LE have not charged the parents. You never know which way a jury is going to go. And then double jeopardy means you don't get a second chance to convict them. LE are right to take their their time and get as much evidence as possible.
 
If they left the campsite at 1:30 to go to the creek and returned at about 1:45 or so, talked to GGPA, and then began searching for about 20 minutes (keep in mind the times ALL would have been approximations as far as I'm concerned), their search would have ended "about" 2:10. Now, I might be wrong, but I doubt, given the circumstances, that anyone would quibble about ten minutes, one way or the other.

The thing is, there doesn't really appear to be a discrepancy in the time at all from when they returned from the store, to when they were at the creek and back, to how long they searched, to when they called 911. So many commented about waiting an hour before calling 911, whereas it certainly seems that they actually called after searching for 20 minutes.

I wonder if these are some of the "discrepancies" others refer to, when they aren't discrepancies at all.

According to Klein, the whole story is a discrepancy. A myth. A scenario that never happened. So, it seems like the details of that scenario might be a moot point now, except I guess if they are prosecuted and the DA uses the discrepancies to show that they were lying. But I have a feeling that what comes out might be way bigger than the details of how long they said they searched for DeOrr on the 911 call.
 
There is EVIDENCE.
But is there enough evidence. Is it any good? I have always felt the parents were responsible but what has the analysis of the evidence revealed? we know the polys were less than truthful in parts... we know know the FBI wasnt pleased with the behavioral analysis. Is there blood... sightings.. hairs, dna, bad reports from pediatricians.. a child who no one saw for days before the camping trip? Polys arent admissable in court. What else do they have and can a jury be persuaded?

I am just trying to be realistic.. as this has unfolded the entire thing sounds like a myth. jmo
 
Yes, it's risky. IMO that's why LE have not charged the parents. You never know which way a jury is going to go. And then double jeopardy means you don't get a second chance to convict them. LE are right to take their their time and get as much evidence as possible.

Yeah. I agree that LE + FBI probably are struggling with getting enough evidence to successfully prosecute someone. I think they have determined who most likely has made him disappear but they are struggling with being able to prove it in a court of law.

The big problem now is trying to get more evidence.

I continue to remain hopeful that 1 of the 4 will come clean with LE. Since there were 4 people present at the campground I remain hopeful that sooner or later 1 of the 4 wont be able to keep living with this over their head and they will have to come clean. Maybe 1 already has and LE is working with them to document as many facts as possible.

Usually the first one to work with LE gets the best deal. I sure hope LE + FBI has begun thinking of using some sort of deal to get to the truth. I just don't want this case to end up a cold case and as much as I don't like plea deals I do think they are beneficial in cases where the alternative is a cold case. This may be that type of case.
Offer the 1 who is most likely not as involved as the others and offer them a good deal to help prosecute the others.

It gets real tricky though. In Holly Bobo's case, I think LE made a terrible mistake by offering a person a deal and LE then tried to take back the deal. That person ended up committing suicide (supposedly) and it is possible that person could have been much more involved than LE thought.

In this case though I think LE+FBI should be able to pick 1 of the 4 who is most likely not as involved as the others. I feel they should be proactive and contact them and offer some deal to help solve this case and find out what happened to the little boy and then prosecute anyone who is responsible.

I really hope this case does not go cold.

I think one of the last reports I saw talked about snow so maybe LE is waiting for the spring melt to find something important. Lets hope LE is working with 1 of the 4.

I like the Sheriff but I have to say I think he made a terrible early mistake by assuming the parents were "solid with him". He initially came out and seemed to be totally believing the parents and I think that may have hurt the case because he was not considering they could be totally lying to him.

I am not sure why he felt so strongly that the parents were being up front with him because nothing I saw gave me that feeling. What was it that the Sheriff gave them the benefit of the doubt? Even lately he seems a little reluctant to have to admit they were not truthful with him. Why is that? How could he have just taken their word for things early on?

Those types of questions I wonder about but just glad the Sheriff has come around. It took others to show him the light though.
 
The parent's houses were searched very early on... They weren't allowed within the search zone for a few days after the "disappearance"... I think they were suspects very early on.
 
Yes, it's risky. IMO that's why LE have not charged the parents. You never know which way a jury is going to go. And then double jeopardy means you don't get a second chance to convict them. LE are right to take their their time and get as much evidence as possible.

I think they're going to use phone ping data (come spring) and really push to find DeOrr's body. If they can put VK/JM in locations not in the storyline for lengths of time... that would be a good indication.
 
Yeah. I agree that LE + FBI probably are struggling with getting enough evidence to successfully prosecute someone. I think they have determined who most likely has made him disappear but they are struggling with being able to prove it in a court of law.

The big problem now is trying to get more evidence.

I continue to remain hopeful that 1 of the 4 will come clean with LE. Since there were 4 people present at the campground I remain hopeful that sooner or later 1 of the 4 wont be able to keep living with this over their head and they will have to come clean. Maybe 1 already has and LE is working with them to document as many facts as possible.

Usually the first one to work with LE gets the best deal. I sure hope LE + FBI has begun thinking of using some sort of deal to get to the truth. I just don't want this case to end up a cold case and as much as I don't like plea deals I do think they are beneficial in cases where the alternative is a cold case. This may be that type of case.
Offer the 1 who is most likely not as involved as the others and offer them a good deal to help prosecute the others.

It gets real tricky though. In Holly Bobo's case, I think LE made a terrible mistake by offering a person a deal and LE then tried to take back the deal. That person ended up committing suicide (supposedly) and it is possible that person could have been much more involved than LE thought.

In this case though I think LE+FBI should be able to pick 1 of the 4 who is most likely not as involved as the others. I feel they should be proactive and contact them and offer some deal to help solve this case and find out what happened to the little boy and then prosecute anyone who is responsible.

I really hope this case does not go cold.

I think one of the last reports I saw talked about snow so maybe LE is waiting for the spring melt to find something important. Lets hope LE is working with 1 of the 4.

I like the Sheriff but I have to say I think he made a terrible early mistake by assuming the parents were "solid with him". He initially came out and seemed to be totally believing the parents and I think that may have hurt the case because he was not considering they could be totally lying to him.

I am not sure why he felt so strongly that the parents were being up front with him because nothing I saw gave me that feeling. What was it that the Sheriff gave them the benefit of the doubt? Even lately he seems a little reluctant to have to admit they were not truthful with him. Why is that? How could he have just taken their word for things early on?

Those types of questions I wonder about but just glad the Sheriff has come around. It took others to show him the light though.

Great post. I agree about the sheriff - you'd think he'd be used to being lied to (being a sheriff and all...), but he has acted like he has totally believed everything the parents have told him, almost like it's been difficult for him to accept that they lied to him. Maybe it's just an act... I don't know.
 
The parent's houses were searched very early on... They weren't allowed within the search zone for a few days after the "disappearance"... I think they were suspects very early on.
I do, too. I think LE suspected the parents almost from the start.
 
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