ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[pepelepolecat]

I know all that. And I also know how it's like to repeat the same story over and over and over to LE during a tramatic event and my story's changed. I remembered things I didn't remember before and forgot small things because they where overshadowed by new things. And not once did I lie.
Like I said until you lived it I'm not sure how you can even try to understand it let alone make judgment on one for it. Nobody is going to tell me I'm wrong because I've lived it. If you had you'd know what I mean.

Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.
-Dr. Seuss

I don't see "ime" on here often, so I want to clarify that it means "in my experience."

I'll leave this topic alone from now on.

 

[Beezneez]

BBM, Do EMT bags have any type of drugs in them? Maybe someone was after something like that and not for the purpose of a different kind of medical reason?

Narcan is all I can think of. It's the antidote to opiniod overdose. I don't know if it was in that bag.

 

[Karinna]

Narcan is all I can think of. It's the antidote to opiniod overdose. I don't know if it was in that bag.

Thanks and yes they could have that in their kit. I googled it and it did say they can't give perscription medication as only a doctor can do that. In that case i don't know what someone would want to steal an EMT bag for then?

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Thanks and yes they could have that in their kit. I googled it and it did say they can't give perscription medication as only a doctor can do that. In that case i don't know what someone would want to steal an EMT bag for then?

To hide and/or transport a small body, and/or incriminating evidence, and/or drugs/paraphernalia.

ETA: In plain site.

 

[Beezneez]

Thanks and yes they could have that in their kit. I googled it and it did say they can't give perscription medication as only a doctor can do that. In that case i don't know what someone would want to steal an EMT bag for then?

EMT and paramedics often have "standing orders" from an ER physician to administer life saving meds. Even oxygen and normal saline are things that formally need to be prescribed, so there are standing orders. EMT & paramedics give narcan all the time. I think cops even administer it in some states. Not Idaho. But point is the bag could have had things in it worth stealing or the bag could've been stolen for its size. Who knows.

 

[ninij9]

I think the thing i find so odd in all of this case is for Deorr's parents to leave him with GGP & GGP's friend whom they had not met before. If it was an older child like a 12-13yr. old maybe ok., but a 2 year old is just too risky IMO, knowing how quickly little ones that age can just take off within seconds of not being watched carefully. Especially seeing as we are now told GGP & friend have diminished responsibility in all of this. I certainly wouldn't be so trusting of everything being okay in that scenario. But then i would never take a child that age on a camping trip in a place like that either, too dangerous IMO. Better off at home in a familiar environment when they are that age because they don't call it the "terrible two's" for nothing.

I took my two year old camping, my cousin and his two year old were there as well. Everyone had a great laugh at my helecopter parenting of my child, until my cousins son wandered off and was located relatively fast playing by a pond a few feet from the campsite we didn't even knew existed!!!!!! No one laughed again. And I had lots of company in the hover dept after that. No more camping till my kids were around 7. One scare was enough.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[sonjay]

I think the thing i find so odd in all of this case is for Deorr's parents to leave him with GGP & GGP's friend whom they had not met before. If it was an older child like a 12-13yr. old maybe ok., but a 2 year old is just too risky IMO, knowing how quickly little ones that age can just take off within seconds of not being watched carefully. Especially seeing as we are now told GGP & friend have diminished responsibility in all of this. I certainly wouldn't be so trusting of everything being okay in that scenario. But then i would never take a child that age on a camping trip in a place like that either, too dangerous IMO. Better off at home in a familiar environment when they are that age because they don't call it the "terrible two's" for nothing.

Your observation assumes that the parents did, in fact, leave DeOrr with GGP and IR.

Based on the parents' inconsistencies and discrepancies that the sheriff has asserted, I don't think we can simply believe that they left DeOrr with GGP & IR. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Unless and until there's some evidence beyond the parents' say-so on that matter, I don't give it any validity.

Based on what the sheriff has reported about the parents' ever-changing stories, at this point, I have to throw out everything the parents have said. Start from scratch with just physical evidence and facts reported by other, more reliable witnesses. If the parents claimed something that is independently verifiable by physical evidence or by other, more reliable witnesses, then it probably happened. But if the only "evidence" of something is what the parents claim, then throw it out. That means the fishing, the minnows, leaving him with GGP for his nap, the cowboy boots, the "looking back," the "watching until I figured out he was gone," the "hauling" down the road, the 20 minutes of searching ... all of it.

 

[neesaki]

FYI: Finally got around to posting the Klein Investigations / Bella FB Question & Answer session over on the media / timeline thread, here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page4

Thanks so much to ConcernedCitizenID and scmom for bringing those questions over to the thread from FB, it sure made it a lot easier. I don't know about everyone else but I find FB rather frustrating to navigate, lol.

 

[sonjay]

Exactly. It sounds like a fishing around for info. to me. Why don't they have enough evidence, i thought they did? And that would only be hearsay anyway.

Such hearsay evidence may or may not be admissible in court.... depending on whether it falls under one of the hearsay exception rules.

But hearsay evidence can be used in the investigation to discover things that aren't hearsay. Let's say someone saw or heard a parent screaming at a child, and the things being screamed suggest that parent has recently caused serious injury to the child. (e.g., "don't make me break your arm again you little s***")

Maybe the police can get a search warrant based on that to obtain the child's medical records from around the time of the screaming, and suddenly they have admissible evidence that proves a prior incident of child abuse. (Note: I'm NOT claiming that DeOrr's parents ever abused him. I'm simply offering an example of how hearsay evidence can lead to non-hearsay evidence.)

 

[haven71]

IMO the EMT bag has nothing to do with this.

Why would the parents call 911 @ 2:22 etc.? Why wouldn't they hurry and dispose of the body (I would've thought that'd be taken care of before calling 911).

I don't see any reason that they would wait for searchers to arrive then break into a vehicle to get the EMT bag. Anyone could've seen them bashing out a car window.

Besides that, people are speculating is that they emptied the bag and placed Deorr's body in it. Why risk getting caught? I'm sure they had a duffle bag or suitcase of their own. That would draw a lot less attention IMO.

 

[haven71]

This might be the 3rd time I've mentioned it, because nobody else seems to think it's a possibility, that Deorr Jr was physically abused by one or both parents and if it was an accident, they were afraid of internal injuries came to light during an autopsy. Or that underneath his clothes he had bruising or anything like that. Many abusers target areas which cannot be seen by outsiders, i.e. will only strike parts of the body that would be hidden by clothing.

This is MOO and not based on anything other than trying to come up with reasons the parents may have covered up an accident.

So the statement requesting info of ANY discussion (interaction?) witnessed between little Deorr and his parents is to possibly find witnesses who remember interactions that would be telling in regards to abuse and/or neglect. I'm glad this angle is being explored, as it should be.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

IMO the EMT bag has nothing to do with this.

Why would the parents call 911 @ 2:22 etc.? Why wouldn't they hurry and dispose of the body (I would've thought that'd be taken care of before calling 911).

I don't see any reason that they would wait for searchers to arrive then break into a vehicle to get the EMT bag. Anyone could've seen them bashing out a car window.

Besides that, people are speculating is that they emptied the bag and placed Deorr's body in it. Why risk getting caught? I'm sure they had a duffle bag or suitcase of their own. That would draw a lot less attention IMO.

The only reason why I'm interested in the EMT bag is simply down to the way we found out about it. The firm way the lady tried to get the parents to "address" it and the reluctance of them to discuss it.

So why did this lady do this and why haven't we heard anything about it again if she thought it so important? Even SB comes across sketchy when asked about it!

 

[haven71]

The only reason why I'm interested in the EMT bag is simply down to the way we found out about it. The firm way the lady tried to get the parents to "address" it and the reluctance of them to discuss it.

So why did this lady do this and why haven't we heard anything about it again if she thought it so important? Even SB comes across sketchy when asked about it!

I don't know why. lol

Like I said, I don't believe it was relevant to Deorr's disappearance. But it does make me wonder how far away the cars were parked away from the perimeter. The parents were not allowed inside the perimeter to search at that time. The parents could've done it, but presumably only if nobody else was within range to see or hear something. I also don't think they'd risk it...even if nobody witnessed it, if they were the only ones there it would surely look suspicious once the searchers got back to the car that was possibly parked near where they were. But I believe if that was the case, members of the extended family were there I believe before the searchers, and I don't think they'd all be in on it. I admit it's odd, especially in light of a possible accidental death and subsequent cover up, and that's why the woman in the interview asked about it. SB did seem to totally dismiss it, and maybe that's why so many of you believe it's suspicious. The way he blew it off convinced me that he really didn't think it was related to the case.

I just think it's highly unlikely, but time will tell (hopefully).

 

[DatelineFan]

The only reason why I'm interested in the EMT bag is simply down to the way we found out about it. The firm way the lady tried to get the parents to "address" it and the reluctance of them to discuss it.

So why did this lady do this and why haven't we heard anything about it again if she thought it so important? Even SB comes across sketchy when asked about it!

I feel the same way! Either it's a major detail, here, or it's a very strange coincidence that no one wants to waste time talking about. But I would think that VDK would have loved to go off on another random tangent during the first interview... So confusing!

 

[wondering25]

EMT and paramedics often have "standing orders" from an ER physician to administer life saving meds. Even oxygen and normal saline are things that formally need to be prescribed, so there are standing orders. EMT & paramedics give narcan all the time. I think cops even administer it in some states. Not Idaho. But point is the bag could have had things in it worth stealing or the bag could've been stolen for its size. Who knows.

there probably are needles and syringes..

 

[persimmon]

there probably are needles and syringes..

Definitely.

 

[persimmon]

I don't know why. lol

Like I said, I don't believe it was relevant to Deorr's disappearance. But it does make me wonder how far away the cars were parked away from the perimeter. The parents were not allowed inside the perimeter to search at that time. The parents could've done it, but presumably only if nobody else was within range to see or hear something. I also don't think they'd risk it...even if nobody witnessed it, if they were the only ones there it would surely look suspicious once the searchers got back to the car that was possibly parked near where they were. But I believe if that was the case, members of the extended family were there I believe before the searchers, and I don't think they'd all be in on it. I admit it's odd, especially in light of a possible accidental death and subsequent cover up, and that's why the woman in the interview asked about it. SB did seem to totally dismiss it, and maybe that's why so many of you believe it's suspicious. The way he blew it off convinced me that he really didn't think it was related to the case.

I just think it's highly unlikely, but time will tell (hopefully).

Do we know for certain the parents were excluded from that area? I know it makes sense to do so and it may be general LE protocol, but has it been addressed? If so, I missed it. Listening to VDK ramble on about the searchers makes me feel he was present at least observibg if not actively participating.

 

[neesaki]

IMO the EMT bag has nothing to do with this.

Why would the parents call 911 @ 2:22 etc.? Why wouldn't they hurry and dispose of the body (I would've thought that'd be taken care of before calling 911).

I don't see any reason that they would wait for searchers to arrive then break into a vehicle to get the EMT bag. Anyone could've seen them bashing out a car window.

Besides that, people are speculating is that they emptied the bag and placed Deorr's body in it. Why risk getting caught? I'm sure they had a duffle bag or suitcase of their own. That would draw a lot less attention IMO.

I guess theoretically speaking someone may have wanted it for the supplies to treat some sort of medical emergency . The only scenario I can imagine this in is if for some reason they were afraid to seek medical treatment from a professional.

 

[Inthedetails]

This might be the 3rd time I've mentioned it, because nobody else seems to think it's a possibility, that Deorr Jr was physically abused by one or both parents and if it was an accident, they were afraid of internal injuries came to light during an autopsy. Or that underneath his clothes he had bruising or anything like that. Many abusers target areas which cannot be seen by outsiders, i.e. will only strike parts of the body that would be hidden by clothing.

This is MOO and not based on anything other than trying to come up with reasons the parents may have covered up an accident.

So the statement requesting info of ANY discussion (interaction?) witnessed between little Deorr and his parents is to possibly find witnesses who remember interactions that would be telling in regards to abuse and/or neglect. I'm glad this angle is being explored, as it should be.

Oh, I think this is definitely a possibility. I think either Deorr's body had evidence of prior abuse and/or the way he died was a result of negligence the parents committed in the past. My hunch for awhile that this is why they panicked and hid the body.

I still don't know what happened, but I think prior injuries/neglect are what influenced the parents' actions.

JMOpion, subject to change.

 

[haven71]

I was just thinking about Deorr's boots being 2 (or 3?) sizes too big.

Remember how Deorr Sr. said his son is a "mover". I'm thinking the cowboy boots would have slowed him down a lot. They might've slipped off, or he'd kinda trip over them sometimes.

But who knows, most of the statements by the parents have been shot down. If he was there at the campground (although he very well might not have been) I just don't see him darting all over the place in those boots. If he was even wearing boots.

:banghead: