Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #4

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JR worked at the child care centre for 5 years.

Mallard and Rochford DID NOT LIVE TOGETHER AT ANYTIME. Not helpful Ian Moone when you post totally incorrect information. When Mallard was 1st jailed, he was placed in with Rochford inside jail. They never co-habitated outside.

Your socalled discussion ideas about Iona are off this planet.
 
I have never really considered where I would go to abduct someone, but I guess it would be somewhere Gucci where the girls are pampered and unsuspecting of bad things, rather than somewhere populated by street rats where most serial killers wouldn't have a chance and would probably be murdered for their Reeboks (like Armadale). Good point.

It's funny, I never felt safe anywhere in Perth. But I grew up in the bad part. I was always looking over my shoulder and expecting the worst. More often than not it was justified.

I would go where I was comfortable. Girls were still stumbling around Claremont in an alcohol fuelled state and wouldn't take any notice of police warnings given to them in person.
 
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89122&d=1455506236

In the article that you posted it was said that she apparently met a random man in a taxi and went with him, and then was seen going into an apartment building by another man that morning. That would suggest to me that she had little fear of men. I didn't suggest that she was in a formal relationship with him. More casual, perhaps.

-If the men quoted in your article were reliable in their identification of her that is.

It was quite a common occurrence for people out an about in Claremont (and other regions) to share taxis. Mr Clegg (Ross) the taxi driver, stated that Sarah S had been in his taxi with a guy and a (Dalkeith) girl -- and that it appeared from published articles, that they didn't know each other. The man that said he witnessed Sarah at 160 Mill Point Rd appears to have described the girl he witnessed as wearing 'dress shorts' and that is similar to what she was wearing on the night (27th) she disappeared.

Because Sarah shared a taxi with an unknown man doesn't mean she was comfortable. I've often wondered if this girl the witness saw at 160 Mill Pt Rd was Sarah's sister Amanda -- she and Sarah are difficult to tell apart in some of the available photos.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. <modsnip> If I ever got in a taxi and there was another person in it, I would immediately start running - assuming the worst. And the real issue for me is that if I were in the girls position and actually traveled to a destination with a stranger, as described in the article: 'he pushed her out', there you are alone in the middle of the night with some stranger. It may have been 1996, but to me that was still incredibly risky.
I must have grown up in a different Perth, because in mine in 1996, bad things happened to young women who went off with random strangers in the middle of the night. To me that implies an degree of naivety almost beyond belief.
 
Does this mean you think JM is a POI or not?

Well that depends. I am privy to some info where a certain person claims they are the unidentified man in the Jane Rimmer CCTV & brags about the fact he is th eonly one never identified. If you wish to refer to this person as "JM" (for Judo Man presumably) then I have no problem with that but I am not aware he ever did any martial arts training. Also he claims his DNA is on Codis (or the 3 Australian National Data Bases that represent what the US Calls its CODIS data base).
Again i have no proof that this claim is true or not... so maybe he is, and maybe he isn't, depending who you believe.
I don't have any "definitive position" as regards JM either way.
I don't even know if your POI for JM is the same one I have!
Maybe JM means 2 different people...

yeah its me in the video. sorry to say. I need to thin up a bit now. Getting slack in my old age. Only one not to be identified at Bay View Terrace... on the night in question, ha

Whether this POI is the same POI as JM I have no way of knowing.

They have my dna from when i got done for obstructing police in the front yard of 280 Morrison Rd, Swan View. I lived there 7 years & 2 months

For what little it's worth, Sarah Anne Muckerslie was found dead face down in a drain in Morrison road Midland.

Whether WA Police really have his DNA on record I have no idea.

He claims so, and claims that he is ruled out as a suspect, as a result.

But do they?

Was he convicted? Sentenced? Incarcerated? If so for how long?

As paper Trail has pointed ou,t when the Aussie DNA data bases systems (3 of) were initially set up - it was only crims with more than 5 years sentence initially entered onto the system.

I seem to recall him saying at some point that charges were eventually dropped against him... so did his DNA ever make it as far as the data base to be searched against the CSK Crime Scene samples?

I would assume they were because 2 detectives from major Crime Squad including Det Snr Constable Investigator Mark Cunningham WAPOL interviewed me about these claims he made...

But I have no way to confirm that either way, so the short answer is - I don't know anything about JM for sure - & cannot confirm either way, and as a result have no firm position on JM either way - i remain happy to be convinced either way.

<modsnip>
 
Well that depends. I am privy to some info where a certain person claims they are the unidentified man in the Jane Rimmer CCTV & brags about the fact he is th e only one never identified. If you wish to refer to this person as "JM" (for Judo Man presumably) then I have no problem with that but I am not aware he ever did any martial arts training. Also he claims his DNA is on Codis (or the 3 Australian National Data Bases that represent what the US Calls its CODIS data base).
Again i have no proof that this claim is true or not... so maybe he is, and maybe he isn't, depending who you believe.
I don't have any "definitive position" as regards JM either way.
I don't even know if your POI for JM is the same one I have!
Maybe JM means 2 different people...



Whether this POI is the same POI as JM I have no way of knowing.



For what little it's worth, Sarah Anne Muckerslie was found dead face down in a drain in Morrison road Midland. This young ladies name is Laura Muckersie -- you seem to be confused today !

Whether WA Police really have his DNA on record I have no idea.

He claims so, and claims that he is ruled out as a suspect, as a result.

But do they?

Was he convicted? Sentenced? Incarcerated? If so for how long?

As paper Trail has pointed ou,t when the Aussie DNA data bases systems (3 of) were initially set up - it was only crims with more than 5 years sentence initially entered onto the system.

I seem to recall him saying at some point that charges were eventually dropped against him... so did his DNA ever make it as far as the data base to be searched against the CSK Crime Scene samples?

I would assume they were because 2 detectives from major Crime Squad including Det Snr Constable Investigator Mark Cunningham WAPOL interviewed me about these claims he made...

But I have no way to confirm that either way, so the short answer is - I don't know anything about JM for sure - & cannot confirm either way, and as a result have no firm position on JM either way - i remain happy to be convinced either way.

<modsnip>

<modsnip>

See info in this link regarding Laura Muckersie. BTW it wasn't Midland it was Swan View. https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/laura-kate-muckersie/
 
Well that depends. I am privy to some info where a certain person claims they are the unidentified man in the Jane Rimmer CCTV & brags about the fact he is th eonly one never identified. If you wish to refer to this person as "JM" (for Judo Man presumably) then I have no problem with that but I am not aware he ever did any martial arts training. Also he claims his DNA is on Codis (or the 3 Australian National Data Bases that represent what the US Calls its CODIS data base).
Again i have no proof that this claim is true or not... so maybe he is, and maybe he isn't, depending who you believe.
I don't have any "definitive position" as regards JM either way.
I don't even know if your POI for JM is the same one I have!
Maybe JM means 2 different people...



Whether this POI is the same POI as JM I have no way of knowing.



For what little it's worth, Sarah Anne Muckerslie was found dead face down in a drain in Morrison road Midland.

Whether WA Police really have his DNA on record I have no idea.

He claims so, and claims that he is ruled out as a suspect, as a result.

But do they?

Was he convicted? Sentenced? Incarcerated? If so for how long?

As paper Trail has pointed ou,t when the Aussie DNA data bases systems (3 of) were initially set up - it was only crims with more than 5 years sentence initially entered onto the system.

I seem to recall him saying at some point that charges were eventually dropped against him... so did his DNA ever make it as far as the data base to be searched against the CSK Crime Scene samples?

I would assume they were because 2 detectives from major Crime Squad including Det Snr Constable Investigator Mark Cunningham WAPOL interviewed me about these claims he made...

But I have no way to confirm that either way, so the short answer is - I don't know anything about JM for sure - & cannot confirm either way, and as a result have no firm position on JM either way - i remain happy to be convinced either way.
<modsnip>

I particularly like this post from thread 1:

Ian Moone says... I believe that I know who this unidentified man is!.

I gave the info (in writing) to WAPOL after 2 detectives from the Major Crime squad interviewed me about him when I contacted them.

He confessed in writing that he is the unidentified man in the Jane Rimmer CCTV footage.

At the time he worked at P & P Print in Claremont.

I believe he probably killed the missing woman Lorrin Whitehead in Victoria.

6 months before she disappeared (in late 2012), he threatened (again in writing) that the Claremont Serial Killings would start up again.

For reasons known only to themselves Plod cannot seem to put the pieces together.

How many more will he kill?

As many as he likes - seemingly!.

He is known to have been with Sarah McMahon, during the week before she disappeared, was found with her personal diary in his possession, and says in writing, that he was with her the morning she disappeared.

Murdered Deborah Anderson's body was found in her step mums burnt out Ford Meteor Car, in Dec 2000 at the liquor Store in Dances Drive Midland, less than 100 yards behind his house.

Laura Kate Muckersie, 20, was found murdered in a storm drain in Swan View in 2001 just a couple hundred meters from where this guy lived at the time.

Try convincing plod... they have their own suspect and won't consider anyone else.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/2...em-a-shambles/

Police evidence system 'a shambles'
It would seem plod have probably "lost" (misplaced) much of the CSK macro task force evidence...

I doubt they will ever solve this one unless the guy hands himself in and confesses.

So who is it, let me guess, I already know?
 
I didn't mention JM at all.

This is what I mean about dragging up POI's who have already been cleared by DNA.

Elastic, keeps on harping on about Morey / Matusevich being the CSK!.
What part about "he has been in jail thus his DNA is on Codis and WAPOL have the DNA of the CSK and have thus ruled him OUT", is Elastic not able to understand?

It just brings down the credibility of all posters on the CSK thread to keep harking back and back and back, when its clearly already proven 100% wrong via DNA!.

See what I mean?

I once suspected FJ Wark (awaiting trial on the Hayley Dodd case in March) and Morey / Matusevich of being possible CSK perpetrators based on their known MO's from past convictions. I even raised the possibility in posts.

BUT

Both have been in jail & thus both have their DNA on CODIS, and we KNOW 100% that WAPOL have DNA from the CSK case and the 1995 Karakatta cemetery rape case.

Thus it can't possibly have been either Morey / Matusevich nor can it have been Wark - even tho they each have known M.O.'s that match known aspects of the CSK case.

So I had to let that suspicion go and move on.

We KNOW that WAPOL have DNA for quite a few reasons now!

1. They DNA tested almost all the taxi drivers (No point without DNA crime scene sample to compare it to!)
2. They got a warrant and took Weygers DNA by force. (No point without DNA crime scene sample to compare it to!)
3. They went all the way to the UK to compare with Dixies DNA & Eliminated him. (Not possible without DNA crime scene sample to compare it to!)
4. They have DNA from the 1995 Karakatta rape victim that matches the CSk crime scene sample & links the same perpetrator.
5. Both Morey / Matusevich and Wark were in jail at the time of the CSK cases - i.e. cannot possibly have been either of them.

I guess what i am trying to say, is that when someone is proposed as a POI, would it not be perhaps wise to FIRST pass them first thru "the filter of whats already known as fact", like jail custodial sentences & their DNA being in Codis already?

Otherwise we can just keep discussing ad infinitem - the same POI's who have already been 100% eliminated by DNA & or Incarceration at the time!.

It's important to know when to let go - I had to let go of both Wark & Morey / Matusevich for CSK purely because known facts (DNA and incarceration) preclude them.

I think others (Elastic?) should do likewise... and move on... because it serves no worthwhile purpose top keep devoting thread bandwidth to their discussion

Back to Iona... (coz that's a commonality that just won't go away yet), Cardinal George Pell - why is there such a clamor to firce him back here to oz to testify for a 3rd occasion in front of the Royal Commission at the moment?

Because what the RC Church under Pell and others consistently did was mix up the difference between separation of powers of the church & state!

To forgive is divine! So when priests were suspected / accused, under church rules, of hanky panky with kiddies, they were forgiven for sinning and transferred to another diocese - preferably across state lines where there is no state law jurisdiction!

Where as Law would require they were reported to Police for criminal investigation and charges.

Is it not possible that an Iona priest was maybe transferred to an eastern states diocese - say Melbourne or Bannockburn and that's when and where Lorrin kaiser / Whitehead - going thru divorce, sought solace in her local church thru such a trying time - and met her former priest from Iona, and ended up dead?

Given what we now know about how such things were managed by the church - isn't that a plausible scenario to link the former Iona girl to all the other murders?

Seems so, to me at least.

As for multiple responses - every post i have made tonight I have been logged out while composing the response... If i dealt with every question from all posters in one response i still wouldn't have posted anything at all - I count at least 4 or 5 logins tonight alone - just to get any response on screen. Parkies made mention of this recently.
Lots and lots of contradictions in that post, ill go easy and not attack the post too much:

Morey has never ever publically been eliminated.

Morey's DNA may be on the system. But if the CSK/Karrakatta is a partial it means nothing and would also fit the theory on why the Police are waiting having done everything they can on the case.

There is no proof Morey was incarcerated on the dates of Karrakatta and the CSK murders, please provide ACTUAL proof not assuming because of his sentence.

What date did Morey start his sentence eg Time served?

I was talking about Eravelly lately and havent mentioned Morey as I am one to keep with the flow of discussion, Morey is my oppinion, and never have I hijacked the thread and become nasty to anyone that disagrees, infact I happily had side conversations whilst the usual suspects/POI were discussed eg Judoman, MysteryMan and Martial Arts Practicioner/Judoman.

They have publically announced through the media that lots of opportunity to obtain DNA was lost or not taken due to bad procedural habits, these links have been posted numerous times on the thread. If you had been following you would know many people have been convicted without DNA being taken.

Lots of new POIs have been discussed here recently, most are not the usual suspects/POIs, lots of good discussion getting to thr bottom of MM and Judoman/Martial Arts Practiciiner so not sure what you are upset about?
 
43. DNA Database Systems
DNA database systems
National DNA database systems

43.1 As of February 2003, the Commonwealth had established three DNA databases for law enforcement purposes. The National Criminal Investigation DNA Database (NCIDD system) was established in June 2001 to facilitate intra-jurisdictional matching of DNA profiles, and inter-jurisdictional matching of profiles between participating jurisdictions, for law enforcement purposes. The Disaster Victim Identification database (DVI Database) was established in October 2002 to identify the victims of the terrorist bombings in Bali, Indonesia, and other similar overseas incidents. Finally, the Australian Federal Police (AFP) operates its own DNA database for law enforcement purposes.

I did post the link a page back - if you choose not to bother to read it - that's OK with me!.

You seem to be quite keen to believe only what you wish to believe, in order to support your hypotheses, and I am good with that!

I don't feel any need to correct your assumptions, you are welcome to them and to express them - no skin off my nose!.

I don't have any idea why you think I would choose not read any link provided by anyone, and you too. In fact I did read it lol.

My comment re the DNA collection process was merely to point out that WA Police aren't upfront with the public are they -- that's all.

The WA police actually commenced setting up its' own DNA database in November 2000 -- it's in a newspaper article.
 
I don't have any idea why you think I would choose not read any link provided by anyone, and you too. In fact I did read it lol.

My comment re the DNA collection process was merely to point out that WA Police aren't upfront with the public are they -- that's all.

The WA police actually commenced setting up its' own legislation re DNA database in November 2000 -- it's in a newspaper article.

"Opposition police spokesman Matt Birney said the State Government
was going soft on DNA testing of criminals, which began last month,
by sampling only present prisoners convicted of serious offences
which carried a sentence of 12 months or more."

and

"But Police Minister Michelle Roberts defended the DNA bill, which
was introduced by the former coalition government in November 2000
and passed by Parliament in June.


and


But we are testing anyone convicted of an offence which carries
a penalty of 12 months or more, including anyone in the justice system,
on work release or on parole.''

Copyright 2002 / Perth Sunday Times
 

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  • 2002 DNA re Nov 2000 -.pdf
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2004 news article re Morey DNA sample taken after Sarah McMahon's disappearance matched to the attempted murder of un-named prostitute. He was described as an 'abattoir worker' and I think that will be related to the time of the attempted murder on 12 December 2003.

I note this paragraph :

"Although the police do not believe the man is connected to the infamous Claremont murders"

and that he was 49yo in 2004 - therefore 41 in 1996.

Also detail about history and Qld incarceration. It must be remembered that he escaped the Qld jail, fled to WA, committed the 2 bank robberies there in an attempt to get jailed there -- in WA. He was extradited back to Qld, then had to go through the prisoner exchange application process to get move to WA -- granted. This occurred prior to his court case -- I have previously posted Court documents which show dates. I have also previously posted Court transcript of Appeal (re WA robbery convictions) and in that document is verified that he was sentenced to 7 years for the 2 WA armed robberies WITH NO PAROLE. It must also be remembered that he was also ordered to serve the remainder of his Qld sentence in WA on top of the 7 years WITH NO PAROLE sentence.

 

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  • DNA link to serial killings Morey - Copy.pdf
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this 2004 article references information from Trish McMahon (Sarah's mother) and Morey's link to Sarah. The information about how Sarah had 1st become acquainted with Morey is totally different than what came out in the recent inquest which detailed Sarah had met Morey through her sister Amanda. The conflict may have been a mother protecting her other daughter or perhaps Sarah had told her mother a different story about how she had met Morey to protect her sister.

This article confirms (in a way) that Morey was an artist.

Really do wish there was some way of checking his release date after the WA armed robbery convictions.

Inquest document say he met Sarah 2 years before she disappeared so that makes it at least November 1998. The other young Northbridge streetworker Lisa Brown disappeared on 10 Nov 1998 which is almost 2 years exactly two years (prior) to the day that Sarah McMahon disappeared 8 Nov 2000.
 

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  • Trish McMahon about Sarah and Morey link - Copy.pdf
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State and National laws/legislation regarding DNA profiling/ DNA databases/Sharing of Databases etc certainly have impeded the ability for Australia to have a great national database... you only have to look at Victoria as an example, where the new law (implemented mid 2014) enabled a 5 fold increase (now at 20 000+ per year) in the number of DNA samples taken from suspects and convicted criminals and stored on the national database.

This is a great article: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...ted-to-be-solved/story-fni0ffnk-1226929110661
here is a snippet:

&#8220;Under the act as it currently stands, DNA samples may only be collected from suspects and offenders who are suspected or convicted of committing an offence specified in the act.
&#8220;The list of offences specified for offenders is more extensive than that for suspects.
&#8220;Over time, each list has been amended and extended.
&#8220;The resulting lists are complex and difficult to apply in practice.
&#8220;To reduce this complexity, and to ensure that all offences of commensurate seriousness are included, clauses 3, 9 and 10 of this bill expand the range of offences for which a DNA sample may be taken from a suspect or offender to include all indictable offences.&#8221;
Indictable offences where DNA will be able to be taken from suspects and convicted offenders include, murder, manslaughter, kidnapping, child stealing, sexual offences such as rape, incest and indecent assault, child *advertiser censored*, most drug offences, causing serious injury, theft, robbery, armed robbery, burglary, going equipped to steal, handling stolen goods, obtaining property by deception, threats to kill or inflict serious injury, stalking, blackmail, perjury, fraud, negligently causing serious injury, criminal damage to property, unlicensed manufacture of explosive substances, extortion and dangerous driving causing death or injury.
 
a Woman's Day article by Trish McMahon. "A romance had soured ".

Never heard of this before. Not mentioned at the inquest either. A romance with whom ?
 

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  • A mother refuses to give up on her pretty daughter - Copy.pdf
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Wouldn't it be a disaster for the Macro team if the DNA swabs were pre-contaminated or post-contaminated or the swabs they had used were not certified for forensic use.
The biggest problem I can see is getting DNA after 19 days from CG and fibre trace from JR after 56 days.

Possible but odds against. I hope they have DNA but have serious doubts over recent media reports.
 
Family plea re Sarah McMahon - more different information. Sarah was planning an overseas trip. Funny how Morey keeps saying Sarah is overseas and has 2 children and that he keeps in contact with her. How could he do that in prison without authorities knowing ? They read all mail and listen to all phone calls.

Interesting timing - this article was on the anniversary of Sarah Spiers' disappearance.
 

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The biggest problem I can see is getting DNA after 19 days from CG and fibre trace from JR after 56 days.

Possible but odds against. I hope they have DNA but have serious doubts over recent media reports.

the JR forensic tape lifts are detailed in the Marshall book.
 
It was quite a common occurrence for people out an about in Claremont (and other regions) to share taxis. Mr Clegg (Ross) the taxi driver, stated that Sarah S had been in his taxi with a guy and a (Dalkeith) girl -- and that it appeared from published articles, that they didn't know each other. The man that said he witnessed Sarah at 160 Mill Point Rd appears to have described the girl he witnessed as wearing 'dress shorts' and that is similar to what she was wearing on the night (27th) she disappeared.

Because Sarah shared a taxi with an unknown man doesn't mean she was comfortable. I've often wondered if this girl the witness saw at 160 Mill Pt Rd was Sarah's sister Amanda -- she and Sarah are difficult to tell apart in some of the available photos.

Interesting. <modsnip> If I ever got in a taxi and there was another person in it, I would immediately start running - assuming the worst. And the real issue for me is that if I were in the girls position and actually traveled to a destination with a stranger, as described in the article: 'he pushed her out', there you are alone in the middle of the night with some stranger. It may have been 1996, but to me that was still incredibly risky.
I must have grown up in a different Perth, because in mine in 1996, bad things happened to young women who went off with random strangers in the middle of the night. To me that implies an degree of naivety almost beyond belief.

<modsnip> lol. But how else were these gorgeous young girls meant to get home. In hindsight it is an absolute crying shame that the club / hotel (owned by the same people) didn't forward plan in order to look after their young patrons.
 
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