DCF Shelter Hearings

[Oregonmama]

So for right now these girls are in a Temporary Shelter situation, correct? With someone who is a friend of MS - and also possibly a friend of TS. And we can assume it is not the person from the last time around who had an inappropriate sexual background, correct?

And MS is allowed telephone contact with his children. Which we can assume will be monitored, since he is in jail.

So this Judge has to make a decision as to where these children will go for the longer term, right? With an eye towards the fact that it well could end up to be permanent.

Are interviews conducted with each person who has expressed an interest? Are the children themselves interviewed as part of the process? Why would it be of any importance whether or not the children stay in the same state? What if the most qualified person(s) happen to live in another state?

The elderly maternal out-of- state grandparents were granted custody of the young daughter in the Pittsburgh case of the cyanide murder of Dr. Amber Klein by her husband, a research physician. I'm pretty sure the adult son and his wife of the murderer father also were interested in taking the girl, but the maternal grandparents were closer to her, had come to town several times to stay with her while her parents traveled, etc.

I am in agreement with many who have posted here that out of state would probably be the best thing in this case.

-------------------

I doubt it is up to the people providing Temporary Shelter to these children to determine who can and cannot visit with them. These types of decisions would be up to DCF, correct?

Otherwise, what would prevent anyone from potentially exploiting the children by, say, allowing press interviews, or something stupid like that?

Face it, this is the kind of case that the National Enquirer pays out money to friends and relatives for "inside scoops" and photographs. Remember the photographs sold in the Casey Anthony case? Remember George and Cindy Anthony being wined and dined and flown hither and yon?

Social services creates a family plan that includes visits by family members through supervision or non. It's all put in details on endless forms with restrictions for each person. I was given many plans when I taught at the younger grade level. Background checks are done very thoroughly . Most state DCF agencies first run every ones names in a central database to see if the state intervened with them before. I'm assuming (JMO) that is why DCF needed to do more background checks on BS. They stated at the last hearing that more background investigation was needed.

 

[Dmacky]

Ok, I'm just going to address the elephant in the room. Surely I am not the only one who has thought about this. Unfortunately, both grandmothers are too old to have primary custody of these young girls. They are both 75 years old, which will make them 82 and 84 when both girls are reach 18. Then you've got to consider the terrible teens, that ALL kids go thru. IMO especially girls. Been there, done that and wouldn't ever want to go thru it again.

To me, one of TS's sisters would be the best possible fit. The con- would mean moving to New York or Connecticut. *I do think moving them away from the only life they have ever known would have pros and cons.
*Pro's
1. Placing them with family members who love them dearly, wants only the best for them and will only want their best interest at heart.

2. Keeping their mother's memory alive in their hearts. And never ever letting them forget how very much she loved them.

2. Starting completely over 1,000 away from the murder, and being able to live their life's as other any normal child is entitled to do.

3.No news stations watching their every move.

Cons
Moving them away from every thing they've ever known. These little girls have lost their mom, their dog "Lucy" and now their dad, all in less than a year. They are completely too young to know/think or even believe their "daddy" could ever kill their mother. Bless their hearts, they have to be so confused. I hope they are able to receive a lot of therapy, they are certainly going to need it. Probably for many years :frown:

A lot has changed from the time TS made out her will. What would she have wanted at this time in her life? I also keep wondering why MiP would want to quit law school after just starting it. < This part I actually believe could be true. I just don't think MS went to convince her to stay in school for 6 hours. What did MiP know about TS's that we don't? Divorce? Odd to me that Dr.P told LE that he had told MiP to call Teresa the very day she was to return home. The Petrites could very well have been the couple that TS's confided in.


Could it be that she had thoughts in the back of her mind that Mark had something to do with this, and she wanted to come back to Bonita Springs to ask for custody of the girls?

 

[howonkee]

Ok, I'm just going to address the elephant in the room. Surely I am not the only one who has thought about this. Unfortunately, both grandmothers are too old to have primary custody of these young girls. They are both 75 years old, which will make them 82 and 84 when both girls are reach 18. Then you've got to consider the terrible teens, that ALL kids go thru. IMO especially girls. Been there, done that and wouldn't ever want to go thru it again.

To me, one of TS's sisters would be the best possible fit. The con- would mean moving to New York or Connecticut. *I do think moving them away from the only life they have ever known would have pros and cons.
*Pro's
1. Placing them with family members who love them dearly, wants only the best for them and will only want their best interest at heart.

2. Keeping their mother's memory alive in their hearts. And never ever letting them forget how very much she loved them.

2. Starting completely over 1,000 away from the murder, and being able to live their life's as other any normal child is entitled to do.

3.No news stations watching their every move.

Cons
Moving them away from every thing they've ever known. These little girls have lost their mom, their dog "Lucy" and now their dad, all in less than a year. They are completely too young to know/think or even believe their "daddy" could ever kill their mother. Bless their hearts, they have to be so confused. I hope they are able to receive a lot of therapy, they are certainly going to need it. Probably for many years :frown:

A lot has changed from the time TS made out her will. What would she have wanted at this time in her life? I also keep wondering why MiP would want to quit law school after just starting it. < This part I actually believe could be true. I just don't think MS went to convince her to stay in school for 6 hours. What did MiP know about TS's that we don't? Divorce? Odd to me that Dr.P told LE that he had told MiP to call Teresa the very day she was to return home. The Petrites could very well have been the couple that TS's confided in.


Could it be that she had thoughts in the back of her mind that Mark had something to do with this, and she wanted to come back to Bonita Springs to ask for custody of the girls?

BBM

Who are you referring to here?

 

[Zuri]

BBM

Who are you referring to here?

I think she is referring to MiP.

 

[howonkee]

I think she is referring to MiP.

Oh, I get it now. MiP had already gone to Indiana to begin law school. So then she had only been in school the very first day, that Monday when TS was found. And since she and TS were close friends, she probably was so distraught she couldn't fathom going back and carrying on as normal, especially since law school is no picnic.

 

[human]

As a grandparent myself, I do not think the girls should be placed with wither grandparent. Too old. In ten years the grandparents will be really old.

They should be with younger aunts or uncles on TS side

 

[Maxine2U]

To me, one of TS's sisters would be the best possible fit. The con- would mean moving to New York or Connecticut.

BBM, SBM for clarity

Didn't AL or someone from the family tell reporters at the last custody hearing that they were planning on relocating to FL?

 

[irishchook]

Because this is the DCF thread, I cannot help but to acknowledge CK's interview, where she states thet MS' lover posted a pic of her son and TS' girls.
This relationship needs to be looked into IMO.
Sounds like Ms. Orlando was not only keen on Mark, but his...


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[JolietJake]

FWIW, I had a family member involved with a child custody thing in Florida. Although different in circumstances and a different county than the Sievers case, it involved a situation where both parents were alive but involved with drugs. DCFS had the child stay with a local aunt and uncle who were later found to be 'less than desirable' due to some legal issues so the maternal grandmother from out of state stepped in to offer herself as legal custodian. It took a lawyer and several court appearances on her part to do this.

DCFS said the child could not leave the county for several months in order to keep tabs on him so the grandmother had to temporarily move to Florida till she was able to move the child permanently out of Florida once it was ok'ed by DCFS. I don't know how this would work in Lee County but there may be a legal battle in store if the Sievers children are now with local relatives and if these locals would challenge someone from out of state wanting custody. This is just an FYI and this case is different in many ways but possibly similar in others. Perhaps the attorneys here can expand on this.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Another elephant in this room: BS is an elderly lesbian who apparently was once quite confused about her own sexual identity. As evidenced by her having been married for years to a man. I am not saying this as any kind of a put-down, but rather as a fact that will need to be considered by the Judge.

As far as moving children of these young ages to a home 1,000 miles away, families move all the time. A move of 100 miles or 1,000 miles does not make that much difference. There are schools everywhere; there are dance lessons, gymnastic lessons, music lessons, etc. everywhere. Children do adapt to moves. I did as a child of 8, so did many who read here I'd bet.

I think none of us at this point know exactly how things are handled when a single parent is jailed. But even within this case there was a single mother whom TS had helped who had been jailed for a drug offense and had lost her child as a result. Whatever happens now will be Temporary until there is a conviction and sentencing of MS. (And I am fully convinced there will be a conviction and sentencing.)

Somehow I just cannot envision a Judge requiring the presence of these two little girls in Florida so they can be taken into a jail for visits with their incarcerated father. Just the thought of that is abhorrent. But maybe that is the law - I don't know.

I'd love to hear from anyone who does know how these things work in Florida.

 

[mikeinmo]

As a grandparent myself, I do not think the girls should be placed with wither grandparent. Too old. In ten years the grandparents will be really old.

They should be with younger aunts or uncles on TS side

Not trying to be devils advocate but some insight from personal experience. The court/DCS will investigate all possible guardians that could be available. I say available as there are some "young" enough to take custody but are not able to due to their own family situation, not ready to handle two children and yes do not want the responsibility. They will investigate the potential "guardians", their residences, determination what schools they could attend all this will come into play when the time comes for the decision.
The major elephant that they are going to look at is are the prospective guardians capable of ably handling (if necessary) their insurance payout I realize this sounds cruel but they have to have the children s best interest in all of this.
One final comment if I may as far as Grandparents being too old it is dependent on each individual case. I say this as in our family's case the closest siblings were not able to take two children in, the fraternal grandparents were not eligible due to other problems, the maternal grandparent had same issue. We as great grandparents talked and decided to take both, we were investigated by both the court and DCS and the determination was made we were the best fit. At the final custody hearing the judge, bless her heart, did ask us the following "you both are not spring chickens... are you physically prepared, mentally prepared to take a hyper 7 year old and a 3 year old special needs children in. We looked her in the eye and said definitely. BTW we are both over 60.

 

[Daisy47]

Not trying to be devils advocate but some insight from personal experience. The court/DCS will investigate all possible guardians that could be available. I say available as there are some "young" enough to take custody but are not able to due to their own family situation, not ready to handle two children and yes do not want the responsibility. They will investigate the potential "guardians", their residences, determination what schools they could attend all this will come into play when the time comes for the decision.
The major elephant that they are going to look at is are the prospective guardians capable of ably handling (if necessary) their insurance payout I realize this sounds cruel but they have to have the children s best interest in all of this.
One final comment if I may as far as Grandparents being too old it is dependent on each individual case. I say this as in our family's case the closest siblings were not able to take two children in, the fraternal grandparents were not eligible due to other problems, the maternal grandparent had same issue. We as great grandparents talked and decided to take both, we were investigated by both the court and DCS and the determination was made we were the best fit. At the final custody hearing the judge, bless her heart, did ask us the following "you both are not spring chickens... are you physically prepared, mentally prepared to take a hyper 7 year old and a 3 year old special needs children in. We looked her in the eye and said definitely. BTW we are both over 60.

Huge respect for what you did for your great grandies Mikeinmo! Kudos! [emoji106]

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[AlwaysShocked]

Here is an article on the local case where the grandparents in their 70s were granted Temporary Custody while the murderer awaited trial:
http://www.wtae.com/news/local/alle...ody-hearing-in-doctor-poisoning-case/21367304

Interesting, because this was another murdering father who would not allow the child to be alone with other relatives after the murder. And as part of these grandparents' argument, they said that if custody was granted to the murderer's son and wife, they would try to influence the 6 year old girl.

After Robert Klein was convicted these same grandparents were again awarded custody of the child. Here are the grandparents coming out from the sentencing hearing, where they had made a statement and talk about how the child is doing:

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/20...yanide-poisoning-of-wife/stories/201502040175

 

[msboo]

Not trying to be devils advocate but some insight from personal experience. The court/DCS will investigate all possible guardians that could be available. I say available as there are some "young" enough to take custody but are not able to due to their own family situation, not ready to handle two children and yes do not want the responsibility. They will investigate the potential "guardians", their residences, determination what schools they could attend all this will come into play when the time comes for the decision.
The major elephant that they are going to look at is are the prospective guardians capable of ably handling (if necessary) their insurance payout I realize this sounds cruel but they have to have the children s best interest in all of this.
One final comment if I may as far as Grandparents being too old it is dependent on each individual case. I say this as in our family's case the closest siblings were not able to take two children in, the fraternal grandparents were not eligible due to other problems, the maternal grandparent had same issue. We as great grandparents talked and decided to take both, we were investigated by both the court and DCS and the determination was made we were the best fit. At the final custody hearing the judge, bless her heart, did ask us the following "you both are not spring chickens... are you physically prepared, mentally prepared to take a hyper 7 year old and a 3 year old special needs children in. We looked her in the eye and said definitely. BTW we are both over 60.

Hats off to you Great Grands for doing this--quite an undertaking indeed!

Hopefully funds for the kids would be put into a trust of sorts, there would be stipulations, etc. Interesting & most important---RESPONSIBILITY here is key but shouldn't be complicated. Would there not be legalities here to follow or is it left up to the guardians (surely not)? Probably good for the Verified Attny thread.

 

[Timekeeper65]

Not trying to be devils advocate but some insight from personal experience. The court/DCS will investigate all possible guardians that could be available. I say available as there are some "young" enough to take custody but are not able to due to their own family situation, not ready to handle two children and yes do not want the responsibility. They will investigate the potential "guardians", their residences, determination what schools they could attend all this will come into play when the time comes for the decision.
The major elephant that they are going to look at is are the prospective guardians capable of ably handling (if necessary) their insurance payout I realize this sounds cruel but they have to have the children s best interest in all of this.
One final comment if I may as far as Grandparents being too old it is dependent on each individual case. I say this as in our family's case the closest siblings were not able to take two children in, the fraternal grandparents were not eligible due to other problems, the maternal grandparent had same issue. We as great grandparents talked and decided to take both, we were investigated by both the court and DCS and the determination was made we were the best fit. At the final custody hearing the judge, bless her heart, did ask us the following "you both are not spring chickens... are you physically prepared, mentally prepared to take a hyper 7 year old and a 3 year old special needs children in. We looked her in the eye and said definitely. BTW we are both over 60.

G-B you MikeinMo and yours, GREAT-GRAND-parents.

 

[Bobbywoo]

Another elephant in this room: BS is an elderly lesbian who apparently was once quite confused about her own sexual identity. As evidenced by her having been married for years to a man. I am not saying this as any kind of a put-down, but rather as a fact that will need to be considered by the Judge.

As far as moving children of these young ages to a home 1,000 miles away, families move all the time. A move of 100 miles or 1,000 miles does not make that much difference. There are schools everywhere; there are dance lessons, gymnastic lessons, music lessons, etc. everywhere. Children do adapt to moves. I did as a child of 8, so did many who read here I'd bet.

I think none of us at this point know exactly how things are handled when a single parent is jailed. But even within this case there was a single mother whom TS had helped who had been jailed for a drug offense and had lost her child as a result. Whatever happens now will be Temporary until there is a conviction and sentencing of MS. (And I am fully convinced there will be a conviction and sentencing.)

Somehow I just cannot envision a Judge requiring the presence of these two little girls in Florida so they can be taken into a jail for visits with their incarcerated father. Just the thought of that is abhorrent. But maybe that is the law - I don't know.

I'd love to hear from anyone who does know how these things work in Florida.

IMO BS being gay or bi is not as big of an issue as other personality issues I feel she has. Since the latest doc dump I have formed a very strong opinion about her and hope she does not get custody of the girls.

 

[Flmomof2]

Two different court systems. Juvenile/family court deals with custody and criminal court deals with the crime. They are separate types of court systems requiring separate attorneys each with its own area of expertise. He would need a separate attorney for each.

 

[Flmomof2]

I'm involved in the court system and DCF in Florida for work. The judge can place children out if state and do so all the time. DCF always looks for family and close friends first even out of state family to place them with. They truly look at the best interest of these children. Ideally they like to keep things the same for the kids, same school, friends, activities etc but it rarely happens to work out that way. They may place them with grandparents. This happens very often in Fl despite the age concern. If they are willing and physically able to take the children at this time and can pass the background check they will place them there. Children typically do not visit their incarcerated parent in jail unless a family member brings them. It's typically not a court ordered thing.

 

[IQuestion]

I'm involved in the court system and DCF in Florida for work. The judge can place children out if state and do so all the time. DCF always looks for family and close friends first even out of state family to place them with. They truly look at the best interest of these children. Ideally they like to keep things the same for the kids, same school, friends, activities etc but it rarely happens to work out that way. They may place them with grandparents. This happens very often in Fl despite the age concern. If they are willing and physically able to take the children at this time and can pass the background check they will place them there. Children typically do not visit their incarcerated parent in jail unless a family member brings them. It's typically not a court ordered thing.

Thank you FLMOMof2 Your post gave a lot of good information! I feel a lot better having read your post. (Ugh... am suffering from the flu...even though I had a flu shot.)
Up thread, one of our contributors said, "Mark had a job, he was a stay at home dad." (paraphrasing) I want to take umbrage with that declaration. Simply claiming his job is "stay at home dad" or "office manager" does not make it a "job" nor should it imply that he was successful at either!!! I saw his office and his wife's declining patient base...doesn't imply successful completion of tasks to me. Although, keeping up with the payments on life insurance proceeds, on his poor wife who was bludgeoned to death, was a task he had no problem completing. (Go figure...)
At the end of the day, no matter how one tries to "spin" his role....he appears both lazy and arrogant.
If the adage "the suit makes the man" is true, then jumpsuit red is the appropriate attire for the rest of his life!

 

[ohreally]

I have a huge concern that the judge and DCF will interview the girls on what thier wishes are in who gets custody of them. Normally I believe that children thier age should have an input on who raises them. Not in this case case. I believe that MS has spent the last six months tainting thier minds for whoever benefits him, not the girls. I am very concerned from previous AL interviews that the girls will say they don't want to live with any of TS's family because MS has programmed them what he wants them to say. I hope that I am wrong.
I am hoping that someone on TS's side of the family will believe custody and once MS is found guilty will be able to move them out of state.
Do we know if MS brought the girls to Missouri when he went to the wedding? It's sad to me to think that he went there where he still has family and didn't bring the girls to see them. Do the girls even have a relationship with the brother in Missouri that in my understanding is one asking for custody. I'm not knocking the brother as I know nothing about him. I just wonder if MS ever took the girls with him on his trips to Missouri for them to get to know him.