ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #26

[Butler]

So if it was truly an accident and not premeditated, what is your theory on it? Why is this a huge leap? Lots of people including myself bring alcohol on trips. There's nothing wrong with that. You wouldn't have to be "drunk" to have such an accident. You could just have a couple drinks and be feeling good and accidentally hit someone in the pitch dark.

So again my question is, what is a good theory for an accidental death?

I didn't claim there was anything wrong with drinking, whether camping or not, I said having Klein saying they stopped at the SD does not mean they did drink, it only means they stopped there.

This is one of my issues with speculation. Someone says what if?...and then it grows from there and becomes fact. Klein said.....and bingo the bar owner has her 15 minutes of fame.

As far as accidental death? I'm not convinced any of the four caused him to die accidently.

 

[Arnie M]

I think Thurs night seems like a possibility too. Especially if there was any drinking done. I'm thinking if the blood on the truck's bumper and fender was DeOrr's then it was likely DK moving the truck, not someone else. That would also explain why they might resist calling for help immediately.

In that situation (if drinks had been had) there would have likely been serious charges. And no more trucking.

They would find themselves in a bit of pickle, because the longer they waited to call after he died, the more obvious it would be that he has been deceased for awhile before calling for help.

I could see how that situation could lead to them fabricating DeOrr's disappearance.

Sorry just catching up. That is one of the best theories I've heard yet!

Bingo kammiemc !!!! ... that would make the most sense of all the theories .... by Friday morning they realized they were in pretty deep and had to invent a coverup.

 

[Butler]

In other words, assuming he was still ALIVE, little Deorr went to bed without any dinner. I wonder when was the last time he had eaten? I wonder how much food the family brought with them, if any.

Given IR has said to LE he saw DeOrr on Friday it's quite a bit more than an assumption he was still alive on Thursday. Just because they weren't able to buy food at the SD on Thursday doesn't mean they had no food.

Bowerman said they were sufficiently provisioned for a camping trip. Some times things are exactly what they are.

 

[giagreen]

I feel like it would be too much of a hassle. Would they have to prove their innocence? Would they have to show that they lost wages over Klein's claims? How much money could Klein have for them to win in a lawsuit? If they lose, they have to pay back his legal fees. I do not agree at all with "If they don't sue, they are guilty". They can't win.

I could be completely wrong.
But what I thought was with this law suit that there are some basic facts. Like they both have not been charged or convicted of a crime. So now won't it be on Klein to prove them guilty or els it is defamation of character?

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[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I could be completely wrong.
But what I thought was with this law suit that there are some basic facts. Like they both have not been charged or convicted of a crime. So now won't it be on Klein to prove them guilty or els it is defamation of character?

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Klein can't prove their guilt. They would have to prove their innocence. They have to prove the statement was false.

 

[giagreen]

Klein can't prove their guilt. They would have to prove their innocence.

But with out a charge or conviction or any solid proof that they do know where DeOrr is then seems like they won't have to prove much.


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[Jamaica Me Crazy]

But with out a charge or conviction or any solid proof that they do know where DeOrr is then seems like they won't have to prove much.


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They have to prove that a false statement was made. I don't see how they can possibly do that.

 

[Little Ol Me]

In other words, assuming he was still ALIVE, little Deorr went to bed without any dinner. I wonder when was the last time he had eaten? I wonder how much food the family brought with them, if any.

SB: You know one was in a camp trailer, one was in a tent, and the family was in the back of a motor vehicle, so…You know I’ve seen people camp like that, so that didn’t distress me. Food – they had food. They tried to buy other food, and then they went to the store the next morning, so yeah, I think …I don’t see any problem with that

So they had food with them.
I think they stopped at the SD to get something for dinner that night, since they were getting to the campground close to dark.

 

[Lillahazel]

Given IR has said to LE he saw DeOrr on Friday it's quite a bit more than an assumption he was still alive on Thursday. Just because they weren't able to buy food at the SD on Thursday doesn't mean they had no food.

Bowerman said they were sufficiently provisioned for a camping trip. Some times things are exactly what they are.

I wish I could be as confidant as you that IR saw DeOrr alive on Friday. I'm just not there yet based on what has been by SB and IR so far. I agree with you about things sometimes being exactly what they are but I still haven't heard the word alive or even heard from IR what he saw DeOrr doing at the campsite.

I have never questioned if they were properly supplied for camping but I do question if they were properly supplied for a toddler camping.

 

[kammiemc]

First it's not a casino, Idaho does not have casino gambling off Indian Reservations. Second, I believe it's a huge leap to take and claim they were drinking, got drunk & irresponsible, and killed their son. My understanding is they stopped for food, weren't able to get any, and then went on to their campsite.

Okay, we will assume no drinks were had, and that they are perhaps teetotalers. But I will say, being drunk would slightly shift them in my mind from cold, heartless people to those were impaired.
But let's just assume they were 100% sober on Thiurs night. Or would that also be a rumor?


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[haven71]

I thought there was someone who placed Deorr at the campsite on Friday at 8 am? I'm going to go look to see what Klein said when he widened the timeline.

 

[haven71]

From NE/Klein interview:

Eaton: Annalee asks, “I would like to know if Great Grandpa or Isaac actually saw DeOrr on Friday or if they just assumed he was there because they had seen him Thursday?

Klein: Again that goes into testimony and I’m not willing to answer but I will say is we have witnesses collaborating that he was on the mountain on that Friday.

 

[kammiemc]

I thought there was someone who placed Deorr at the campsite on Friday at 8 am? I'm going to go look to see what Klein said when he widened the timeline.

Klein said the last person outside the four campers to see DeOrr was at 6 PM Thurs. It sounded like the significance of 8 AM was when the stories started to fall apart. That's why I wonder if they woke up to a deceased child. <modsnip>


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[kammiemc]

From NE/Klein interview:

Eaton: Annalee asks, “I would like to know if Great Grandpa or Isaac actually saw DeOrr on Friday or if they just assumed he was there because they had seen him Thursday?

Klein: Again that goes into testimony and I’m not willing to answer but I will say is we have witnesses collaborating that he was on the mountain on that Friday.

I wonder if that was after his team got a chance to talk to Isaac? So Isaac and ggp saying DeOrr was around on Fri. So no death Thurs night it would seem.


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[kammiemc]

I didn't claim there was anything wrong with drinking, whether camping or not, I said having Klein saying they stopped at the SD does not mean they did drink, it only means they stopped there.

This is one of my issues with speculation. Someone says what if?...and then it grows from there and becomes fact. Klein said.....and bingo the bar owner has her 15 minutes of fame.

As far as accidental death? I'm not convinced any of the four caused him to die accidently.

If the death was not at least inadvertently caused by someone, whether even through neglect or faulty judgment, why wouldn't they have called for help and why would they lie again and again to every investigator who touches the case? Why do something so illegal and immoral as leaving your deceased toddler in the wilderness (or anywhere) and telling friends and family he disappeared, and bringing in mass resources in a wild goose chase? If they had done nothing wrong to cause the death and weren't drunk or on drugs, why I wonder?


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[haven71]

From the Q &A, regarding Isaac seeing Deorr:


JVR - Did Isaac confirm that he did see DeOrr alive at the camp site at any time and specifically after the trip to the store?
Klein Investigations and Consulting This goes to direct testimony. The only comment we will make at this point is that : "It depends on which statement you want to believe that came from Isaac."

 

[haven71]

I wonder if that was after his team got a chance to talk to Isaac? So Isaac and ggp saying DeOrr was around on Fri. So no death Thurs night it would seem.


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It appears this interview was BEFORE Klein talked to Isaac. So, knowing he recently began cooperating, this story may have changed...

Back to the drawing board?

 

[kammiemc]

It appears this interview was BEFORE Klein talked to Isaac. So, knowing he recently began cooperating, this story may have changed...

Back to the drawing board?

Well SB also said that Isaac claimed he saw DeOrr on Fri and that he even said he saw him after the parents returned from the store. But it really sounds like DeOrr didn't go in the store (or was even in the truck), so it's all very iffy/murky, isn't it?


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[Rayemonde]

After watching the most recent interview with the parents, it wouldn't actually surprise me if it turns out that Jessica killed DeOrr on purpose. Maybe even planned it in advance. IMO she is not sad at all that he is gone. She couldn't even manage to look grief-stricken for a short TV interview. Maybe having a toddler was cramping her lifestyle, and she dreamed of being childfree. And now she's living the dream. She doesn't even seem upset, angry or scared about being named a suspect.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

The whole IR thing seems to come down to timing.

25th/26th January IR does EIN interview.
26th January KIC "review" IR interview and are still skeptical about him and really want to talk.
2nd March Klein interview with CB. Klein now singing the praises of IR whom has now spoken with them and talks about a proffer etc.

Clearly IR was holding back/covering/not wanting to get involved/scared....take your pick. Sometime between 26th January and 2nd March IR has "come clean" going by what Klein has said on March 2nd.

If the above is near the truth and everything IR told KIC is verified then I'd imagine if/when a body is found, arrest(s) will be made at that point.