Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #7

[earlygirl]

JV - I see an innocent, hard working man. I sure hope someone else out there notices ... May the publicity from this horrible experience open a door for a real good job... hone:

 

[deugirtni]

I am very suspicious of the letter from DM that told CN to get in touch with the "friend" to change their testimony and that she knew what to do to get them to be able to do that. I think anyone who was willing to co-operate with DM's defence team and figure out how to "fix" their original statements on cross examination was rewarded. Wouldn't be the first time we've seen this either. Once again, think Jodi Arias and her magazine codes.

MOO

I found the reported wording of that jailhouse letter from DM to CN to be peculiar (BBM), "If he knew his words were going to get me a life sentence, he would change them. Show him how he can, and he will change them". Interesting prospect that perhaps he was secretly trying to say something like, 'let him know there is a reward in it for him if he changes his statement'?

That letter had been sent prior to whatever happened to prompt the courts to issue a search warrant for CN's residence, which immediately seemed to lead to many other charges (her own Accessory charge, 2 additional murder charges for DM, 1 additional murder charge for MS, and it seems like also the charges to the 3 other individuals for selling an illegal weapon to DM (which was subsequently used in the murder of his father), also came around the same time). I wonder if CN continued to be uncooperative once evidence was found in her home, or if the floodgates opened when she saw that she was also going to be implicated in TB's case.

FAIK, it could have been CN who, approximately one year after DM's arrest, was the one who, for some reason, became willing to cooperate and decided to come clean? Perhaps she found out about the other women that DM seemed to also have some kind of relationship with at the same time as her, and questioned herself as to why she was continuing to protect him? (LB, Whidden, and obviously DM was still communicating with his ex-fiancee (there are at least a few communications between the two, shown on the cellphone records)).

It will be interesting when CN takes the stand, to see if she is introduced as another unwilling witness (like Whidden), or if she became the Crown's key witness somewhere along the way.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

I found the reported wording of that jailhouse letter from DM to CN to be peculiar (BBM), "If he knew his words were going to get me a life sentence, he would change them. Show him how he can, and he will change them". Interesting prospect that perhaps he was secretly trying to say something like, 'let him know there is a reward in it for him if he changes his statement'?
...

OR threat of using his leverage aka blackmail...'change testimony or else I go public with a secret, or drag you down too'. It is my opinion that he had some pressure points identified on all of his entourage that he could exert when needed. JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The screenshot of the Riverside property with the hose and the police markers.. it looks like (to me) that part is a patch of browned grass, while the rest of the grass seems to be green (please correct me if I'm seeing things incorrectly). That leads me to wonder, but it is just stupid to wonder such a thing imho, if there had been perhaps a tarp on that patch of grass, which tarp had perhaps been hosed off and then left for a few days (May 7th to 10th?), which caused the browning of only that patch (which looks to me like it could be from something having been on top). It was early May, and I'm not sure of the recent weather conditions at that time in 2013, but none of the other grass appears to be brown. Could he have hosed down the bloody tarp on the lawn there, left it to dry, then a couple of days later, realized his goose was cooked, went to fetch it, saw the browning, and perhaps also that there may have been traces of the stuff he had washed off the tarp onto the lawn, and so had V run the hose on the area for TEN hours.

I guess it would have made MUCH more sense to just burn (even if not in the incinerator), or drop off in someone's trash can in some neighbourhood somewhere, the inexpensive tarp, rather than to wash it, and re-use it to cover the burned out seats... so that is why I can't imagine spending all that time to clean off the tarp, and spend all that money in water consumption, for a $12 tarp that could provide evidence of murder.

If he had used the hose at Riverside to wash the tarp, even if the browned area had nothing to do with anything, he could have perhaps wanted to ensure there were no little traces of tissue, etc., left behind on the lawn?

Any thoughts on the running-water-for-10-hours issue?

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 23. März
May 10 texts. Javier to Millard 5:52 pm "Should I keep water running?" To do with new hoses from Home Depot running all day. Unclear where..
Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 23. März
Court now seeing photos of the hoses set up at Riverside Dr. You can see police tape in the shot and exhibit cards on the ground #TimBosma
Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 23. März
Seeing photo of garden hoses at Riverside backyard. Ran water for 10 hours, following Millard's instructions.
Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 23. März
Day #Millard is arrested, Villada is asked to run water with hose all day - 10 hours. Photo shows hose snaking over lawn to pile of brick


Had AJ and SS bought the new hoses at Home Depot?
Why was the hose put at the pile of brick? Is that the place where something happened or something was placed before the running water washed it away? :thinking:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

While reading the tweets and reading the articles about the trial, I always wonder why MS doesn't glance over at DM during court. I think that perhaps DM gave police info to incriminate MS and now he's mad? Apparently DM always looks at him but he makes no eye contact. They were buddies once upon a time...

Maybe, MS was somehow addicted to DM's spirit and now after 3 years he doesn't want to deliver himself again to his ex friend?

 

[Inspector_North]

Maybe, MS was somehow addicted to DM's spirit and now after 3 years he doesn't want to deliver himself again to his ex friend?

I can't help but go back to what MS bellowed to MM when he was arrested. He obviously didn't know about the overwhelming evidence of his presence on the 6th and the morning of the 7th. I believe his attitude changed once his council advised him of their strategy, and the importance of court appearance.

DM on the other hand is used to leading, and is having difficulty following orders. Hence the interview with the STAR, and possibly his involvement in reaching some of the witnesses after his arrest. We know of one attempt with the CN letter.

With the evidence being laid out like a Quentin Tarantino movie timeline, I also expect known evidence to take on a new meaning with each of the remaining witnesses.

 

[matou]

When Michalski was getting his car at the hangar with RB, where were Millard and Smich? I see the Millard phone pings in Oakville around 8 pm which is when RB and AM are looking at the red Camaro in the hangar. Did DM want these guys out of his house in Etobicoke during this time when he was going to pick up Smich, organize vehicles (i.e. Yukon)?

 

[LoyalSleuth]

Can anyone pleae clarify, did MS do an interview with a reporter too? I think i remember reading this, no info nuggets just that he wishes he could talk but he can't...

Or is this DM only that did the STAR interview?

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

 

[LoyalSleuth]

I found the reported wording of that jailhouse letter from DM to CN to be peculiar (BBM), "If he knew his words were going to get me a life sentence, he would change them. Show him how he can, and he will change them". Interesting prospect that perhaps he was secretly trying to say something like, 'let him know there is a reward in it for him if he changes his statement'?

That letter had been sent prior to whatever happened to prompt the courts to issue a search warrant for CN's residence, which immediately seemed to lead to many other charges (her own Accessory charge, 2 additional murder charges for DM, 1 additional murder charge for MS, and it seems like also the charges to the 3 other individuals for selling an illegal weapon to DM (which was subsequently used in the murder of his father), also came around the same time). I wonder if CN continued to be uncooperative once evidence was found in her home, or if the floodgates opened when she saw that she was also going to be implicated in TB's case.

FAIK, it could have been CN who, approximately one year after DM's arrest, was the one who, for some reason, became willing to cooperate and decided to come clean? Perhaps she found out about the other women that DM seemed to also have some kind of relationship with at the same time as her, and questioned herself as to why she was continuing to protect him? (LB, Whidden, and obviously DM was still communicating with his ex-fiancee (there are at least a few communications between the two, shown on the cellphone records)).

It will be interesting when CN takes the stand, to see if she is introduced as another unwilling witness (like Whidden), or if she became the Crown's key witness somewhere along the way.

The only thing that contradicts what you say here about CN, is that she has plead Not Guilty to her charges. If she had cone clean wouldn't she have plead guilty?

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[brightii]

Can anyone pleae clarify, did MS do an interview with a reporter too? I think i remember reading this, no info nuggets just that he wishes he could talk but he can't...

Or is this DM only that did the STAR interview?

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Yes, MS did do a brief interview. Here's the link:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...y_they_want_to_tell_their_story_but_cant.html

All MOO.

 

[StevieL]

I found the reported wording of that jailhouse letter from DM to CN to be peculiar (BBM), "If he knew his words were going to get me a life sentence, he would change them. Show him how he can, and he will change them". Interesting prospect that perhaps he was secretly trying to say something like, 'let him know there is a reward in it for him if he changes his statement'?

That letter had been sent prior to whatever happened to prompt the courts to issue a search warrant for CN's residence, which immediately seemed to lead to many other charges (her own Accessory charge, 2 additional murder charges for DM, 1 additional murder charge for MS, and it seems like also the charges to the 3 other individuals for selling an illegal weapon to DM (which was subsequently used in the murder of his father), also came around the same time). I wonder if CN continued to be uncooperative once evidence was found in her home, or if the floodgates opened when she saw that she was also going to be implicated in TB's case.

FAIK, it could have been CN who, approximately one year after DM's arrest, was the one who, for some reason, became willing to cooperate and decided to come clean? Perhaps she found out about the other women that DM seemed to also have some kind of relationship with at the same time as her, and questioned herself as to why she was continuing to protect him? (LB, Whidden, and obviously DM was still communicating with his ex-fiancee (there are at least a few communications between the two, shown on the cellphone records)).

It will be interesting when CN takes the stand, to see if she is introduced as another unwilling witness (like Whidden), or if she became the Crown's key witness somewhere along the way.

The only thing that contradicts what you say here about CN, is that she has plead Not Guilty to her charges. If she had cone clean wouldn't she have plead guilty?

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Question for those with knowledge of the legal system: Is it true that any testimony CN gives in this court case can't be used against her in a later trial? I'm not sure if this is standard procedure or if it's something the Crown decides case to case. If this is true, it would be to her advantage to divulge every detail. It wouldn't be necessary for a "deal" to be made, since the Crown could decide that there wouldn't be a reasonable chance of conviction without all of that evidence being admissible.

As for her pleading not guilty, I would think this would be the default position and that most lawyers would advise that at this point. If the Crown stays the proceedings/drops the charges, she would be free. She could always change her plea at a later time if the Crown decides to pursue the charges in hopes of a reduced sentence.

I would appreciate comment from someone with legal experience!

JMO

 

[brightii]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6404168-bosma-trial-two-more-lives-changed-by-dellen-millard/

Two more lives changed indeed re RB and JV!

I enjoy reading the articles by Susan Clairmont and others because these MSM reports and columns often validate the perspectives that many of us here have about the accused, the witnesses and testimony. I think too if reporters present at the trial are getting the same or similar impressions of the accused and the witnesses as we are, and are either believing or questioning witness testimony, then it is likely, IMO, that the jury is doing the same.

All MOO.

 

[billandrew]

My current theory about DM's defense: an "accessory after the fact" strategy

I've been thinking a lot about what DM's defense will be, and I have come up with the following:

1. He was rich and had no reason to steal a truck.
2. MS shot TB and he (DM) wasn't in the truck when it happened.
3. Upon becoming aware of the murder, he felt compelled to help MS clean up the evidence.

Accessory after the fact as a given

Based on the evidence to date, I don't see how DM could convince a jury that he did not play a role in disposing of the body or cleaning up other evidence. The phone activity, the DNA on the gloves, the videos, the use of his farm, his hangar, his incinerator, his vehicles, etc. At a minimum, DM will be an accessory after the fact.

Area of contention: who did the actual shooting

This is where the grand battle of the defences will take place. There is not much evidence to suggest whether it was DM or MS who pulled the trigger. The blood spatter, the GSR, the broken window, the shell casing, etc. You could argue that the shot came from the driver's side, and that DM was the driver for the test-drive, but without more evidence you cannot conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that it was actually DM who did the shooting. Therefore, DM will likely take the position that he wasn't even present when the shooting took place. He will have a story about getting out of the truck or something to that effect.

Premeditation will make or break this defense

The success of this defense strategy strongly depends on there being no premeditation by DM. This is why the "I'm rich and have no reason to steal a truck" argument is so important, and we have seen the defense building a foundation for this through their cross-examinations so far.

It is also why DM was so desperate via his letters to CN to have a key Crown witness change his evidence. That friend allegedly told police that he knew about DM's plan to steal a truck. Although this supports premeditation to theft and not necessarily murder, it is damning and incriminating enough that it could break this defense. Therefore, the lawyers will be doing everything they can to block or discredit any evidence relating to premeditation.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, MS did do a brief interview. Here's the link:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...y_they_want_to_tell_their_story_but_cant.html

All MOO.

Here is another link, which I believe is same, but has some different parts too.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/hamilt...-killers-want-to-speak-out-but-just-cant.html

 

[SnooperDuper]

Can anyone pleae clarify, did MS do an interview with a reporter too? I think i remember reading this, no info nuggets just that he wishes he could talk but he can't...

Or is this DM only that did the STAR interview?

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Smich says he will get in touch when the time is right — “when I get out of here or however this works out,” he said. But for now, he said, “I have nothing to say.”
Smich says his lawyer, Tom Dungey, has advised him not to speak.

http://www.mississauga.com/news-sto...-say-they-want-to-tell-their-story-but-can-t/

 

[redwing7225]

Question for those with knowledge of the legal system: Is it true that any testimony CN gives in this court case can't be used against her in a later trial? I'm not sure if this is standard procedure or if it's something the Crown decides case to case. If this is true, it would be to her advantage to divulge every detail. It wouldn't be necessary for a "deal" to be made, since the Crown could decide that there wouldn't be a reasonable chance of conviction without all of that evidence being admissible.

As for her pleading not guilty, I would think this would be the default position and that most lawyers would advise that at this point. If the Crown stays the proceedings/drops the charges, she would be free. She could always change her plea at a later time if the Crown decides to pursue the charges in hopes of a reduced sentence.

I would appreciate comment from someone with legal experience!

JMO

After reading this, it appears that the testimony of CN can not be used against her in her own court case.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination

 

[deugirtni]

More from MS from that article (BBM):

......

Smich has been at this jail since Aug. 26, when he was transferred from the Niagara Detention Centre. There, he says, they kept putting him in segregation.

.......

Smich almost ends the visit twice, but when he cannot get the guard's attention, he sits back down. The 26-year-old wells up when asked about his family, friends — but nodded that they do keep in touch, they do visit.

......

While he assumes many of the other inmates recognize his name and his high-profile case, he says he has not been targeted in any way. He says he gets outside, but not often — especially now that he's in segregation again.



When asked if he provided the "new information" that led to this latest police search of Millard's farm, he cocked his head —asking, "If I'm telling you I'm not talking, why do you think I'm talking to anyone?"

 

[nitsirk]

Regarding the screenshot of the hoses.....what is in the upper left corner? It looks like a large fan.

Or could it be a wood chipper?

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk

 

[matou]

It looks like a fan.

 

[deugirtni]

Regarding the screenshot of the hoses.....what is in the upper left corner? It looks like a large fan.

Or could it be a wood chipper?

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk

Good catch, def a fan.