IL - Kyrian Knox, 2, Rockford, mutilated, 20 Aug 2015 - #2 *not guilty*

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CoverMeCagney said:
Can somebody explain to me in laymans terms why these people have the upper hand? Why can't police taken them in for questioning?
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LE can ask them to voluntarily come in for questioning (and have done so) but they can't be forced to come in. Suspects don't have to answer questions, ever, and most don't unless they're in line for a plea deal (or trying to outsmart LE). Apparently, there's not enough evidence to arrest them. So they will remain free until that day comes -- if it ever does.
 
CoverMeCagney said:
There are so many positives to the US legal system but this situation is utterly unacceptable. In the UK they would have been arrested on suspicion of murder months ago, and even if they'd been released on bail there would have to be evidence they were innocent before they were cleared. (our system annoys me in other ways, I aint saying it's perfect, not at all!)

Can somebody explain to me in laymans terms why these people have the upper hand? Why can't police taken them in for questioning?
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Know Your Rights When Contacted by a Law Enforcement Officer
Understand that providing information to the FBI or any law enforcement officer, absent a subpoena, is strictly voluntary. You are not obligated under law to answer any questions from law enforcement officers other than providing them with an official identification card. (cont. at the link)

What Rights Do I Have?
Whether or not you’re a citizen, you have rights under the United States Constitution. The Fifth Amendment gives every person the right to remain silent: not to answer questions asked by a police officer or government agent. The Fourth Amendment restricts the government’s power to enter and search your home or workplace, although there are many exceptions and new laws have expanded the government’s power to conduct surveillance. The First Amendment protects your right to speak freely and to advocate for social
change. However, if you are a non-citizen, the Department of Homeland Security may target you based on your political activities.
http://www.civilfreedoms.org/?page_id=62

Know Your Rights
When Encountering Law Enforcement
ACLU Publication

Q Do I have to answer questions asked by law enforcement officers?

A No. You have the constitutional right to remain silent. In general, you do not have to talk to law enforcement officers (or anyone else), even if you do not feel free to walk away from the officer, you are arrested, or you are in jail. You cannot be punished for refusing to answer a question. It is a good idea to talk to a lawyer before agreeing to answer questions. In general, only a judge can order you to answer questions
 
Thanks, Bessie. And what about powers of arrest, does there HAVE to be evidence to arrest someone? In this case is the fact they were the last people to see a child who was gruesomely murdered insufficient grounds for an arrest "on suspicion of"?
 
Radio silence in this case doesn't necessarily equate to lack of activity behind the scenes. It's not unusual in any case, and after reading the article, I'm not at all surprised that LE is keeping a lid on the investigation. A perceived rush to judgment would not be in keeping with an effort to promote community cooperation, and could directly hinder the investigation into Kyrian's murder. DF and KH spoke with LE when Kyrian was reported missing. If it appears they now are being unjustly accused, others will be afraid to speak with LE. JMO

Why don't people want to talk with cops?

They might not be 100 percent sure of what they saw, so they don't want to get involved. But often, Pann said, "They are either protecting their own interest or someone else's, or they simply don't trust the police."

Rockford Police Department is working more diligently toward building trust, Pann said.

[...]

The U.S. Justice Department recommended in September that police embrace principles of procedural justice and community collaboration to improve relationships with minority and marginalized communities. The report said Rockford Police Department's arrest rates in violent gun offenses and homicides are "substantially lower than the national average."
http://www.rrstar.com/article/20160221/NEWS/160229973/?Start=2

Among the explanations offered for below-average arrest rates are a lack of cooperation from witnesses, insufficient manpower and a high volume of violent crime. The Rev. K. Edward Copeland said that improving relationships and trust between police and minority and marginalized communities could help police solve more violent crimes.

"When there is procedural justice — when people perceive they are being treated fairly, they are not being singled out and explained to them what is going on and they actually have a voice — then the legitimacy of the authority is enhanced," Copeland said. "So the person is more willing to cooperate when they feel like ... they are treated fairly. It can put the (crime) clearance rates where they need to be."
http://www.rrstar.com/article/20150922/NEWS/150929829/?Start=2
 
CoverMeCagney said:
Thanks, Bessie. And what about powers of arrest, does there HAVE to be evidence to arrest someone? In this case is the fact they were the last people to see a child who was gruesomely murdered insufficient grounds for an arrest "on suspicion of"?
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Evidence sufficient to establish probable cause is required to obtain an arrest warrant. (If arrest is made without a warrant, a judge rules on the evidence post-arrest.)

It's only alleged that the couple were the last to see him alive. They claim otherwise. If it could be proven as fact, the case would be solved, because obviously, the last one to see KK alive was the killer.

I think what you mean is that he was last in their care. I could guess that alone doesn't constitute probable cause, but only a judge has the authority to make that determination. There's no clear definition for "probable cause". It varies by case, and falls somewhere between a whim, and the preponderance of evidence required to convict.

How Much Information = Probable Cause?
The million-dollar question is: How much information do police officers need to convince a judge to issue an arrest warrant or to justify a warrantless arrest? In general, probable cause requires more than a mere suspicion that a suspect committed a crime, but not as much information as would be required to prove the suspect guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. (See How much "probable cause" do the police need?)

Because probable cause is an abstract concept, a firm definition of it is evasive. Courts have to determine case by case whether there is or was probable cause for an arrest.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-police-can-make-arrest-probable-cause.html
 
Thanks, Bessie. You're a good 'un. I still don't like it though!

I've found a good article about the differences between US and UK arrest policy, here are a few points:

  • It’s a lot easier to arrest someone in the United Kingdom, but being arrested there isn’t a big deal like it is in the United States. American police need probable cause to make an arrest, but in the United Kingdom, officers can arrest on suspicion.
  • Being arrested on suspicion in the U.K. isn’t so unpleasant as being arrested in the U.S. In fact, you’re likely to be released within hours without paying any bail. First, a British police officer reads the offense you’re suspected of and then your rights. Your rights are not exactly the same as your Miranda rights in the U.S., but they similarly include things like the right to remain silent. (However, in the U.K. your silence may be used against you under certain circumstances.)"
  • Those who are let out on bail may not be totally off the hook. British police continue to collect evidence, and as soon as they have enough evidence to charge, they are required to arrest again and charge.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._is_being_arrested_different_in_britain_.html

So basically, when you guys arrest someone it's pretty serious stuff, whereas we seem to arrest more spontaneously. Pros and cons to both I guess.

The reason this all came to my attention is Claudia Lawrence's case which is local to me. There have been about 8 or 10 arrests in total, including a handful on suspicion of murder. All have been released, some on bail, but Claudia has never been found. It feels like the police are just hoping to put pressure on those they have sneaky suspicions about by bringing them in on a murder rap. So on this case it was driving me mad that Harris wasn't being dragged to the cop shop, but I understand better now.
 
I would have liked to have seen warrants to search KH's house and also the car that was used to travel from Rockford to the blood center or to Chicago.

Once the KH family had left that apartment, I can't see why the police couldn't have made a request to the landlord to go in without a warrant.

If you can't search simple locations like these, it makes me wonder how the police can ever catch anyone.

We've still got missing body parts, and my suspicion is that they are somewhere between Rockford and Chicago, probably relatively close to a road route between those two places. I think one set of remains is somewhere like a wooded copse not too far from a road, possibly in a container that may have been lightly buried or 'camouflaged' with leaves and branches? If there's a region like an illegal dumping site where people take unwanted large items...bed mattresses, car seats, etc, then a set of remains could be in a container (bag/box) in relatively plain sight in a place like that.
 
UPDATE (2/24/16) - Knox's grandmother, Cameshia Harris, told Eyewitness News that she wants people to stop bothering police and to let them do their jobs. She says people are making demands and it's hindering their ability to do their job. "I'd rather the detectives work the case and get whatever they feel is adequate evdience," Harris said in a phone interview.

http://www.mystateline.com/news/kyrian-knox-advocates-push-for-answers-in-investigation
 
I swear, my heart leaps into my throat every time I see one of Kyrians threads pop to the top of my subscribed list.
Hoping, praying that there has been some movement that I wasn't privy to.

How can D&K not have gone to talk to the police?
How can LK not be screaming at the top of her lungs to the media to bring attention and awareness to her sons story?
How can there be NOTHING?

Seriously. HOW?
 
Kadoober said:
I swear, my heart leaps into my throat every time I see one of Kyrians threads pop to the top of my subscribed list.
Hoping, praying that there has been some movement that I wasn't privy to.

How can D&K not have gone to talk to the police?
How can LK not be screaming at the top of her lungs to the media to bring attention and awareness to her sons story?
How can there be NOTHING?

Seriously. HOW?
Click to expand...

Another reason that this tragic case may have fallen by the wayside is that only a week after the last Knox press conference in November, the video of Laquan McDonald’s fatal shooting by a Chicago police officer was released, unleashing a chain of events that may have stalled the investigation.

That included the sudden resignation of the Chicago Police Department’s Chief of Detectives, Dean Andrews, and the FBI's investigation of the CPD after a series of fatal police shootings.

“It's very frustrating and it's discouraging that this is going on,” said the member from Mothers of Missing and Exploited Children. “And advocates want nothing more than justice for Kyrian Knox."

This remains an active investigation and anyone with information is encouraged to contact Chicago’s Area North Detectives at 312-744-8266.

http://www.mystateline.com/news/kyrian-knox-advocates-push-for-answers-in-investigation
 
I'm a pretty patient and positive person. I still believe justice will be served in it's fullest for Kyrian. Time has a funny way of making things work out. But it sure is heartbreaking having to watch a situation like this where is seems as if nobody really cares anymore. I understand that LE is probably doing a whole lot more then I am aware of but it's a crappy and helpless feeling.
 
giagreen said:
I'm a pretty patient and positive person. I still believe justice will be served in it's fullest for Kyrian. Time has a funny way of making things work out. But it sure is heartbreaking having to watch a situation like this where is seems as if nobody really cares anymore. I understand that LE is probably doing a whole lot more then I am aware of but it's a crappy and helpless feeling.
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I like the way you think, I need to keep this post fresh in my mind <3
 
The family has a completely different mindset than we shall ever have.
Kyrian was never put first.
Except here.
 
charminglane said:
The family has a completely different mindset than we shall ever have.
Kyrian was never put first.
Except here.
Click to expand...

:( Sad. But seems almost true. I truly have tried to hold off judgement and try so hard to realize I have no idea what the family is going threw. But I have nothing left positive to say. To the point I just haven't commented. But at the end of the day Kyrian is dead. He was dismembered and weighed down in a dirty city pound.

I get it. People lose their cool with toddlers, children, and babies everyday. We can't stop it. We can't control how other people are going to act when nobody is looking. Nor can we just take kids from their parents cause we personally wouldn't want our child in their care. It's life. It sucks. All we can do is honor the child once we hear the news and bring justice. But seriously.....This person dismembered a toddler. They didn't just hit him really hard and buried him. Or panicked and hid him like typical cases of abuse taken to far. This person took the time to dismember a toddler. That's not only messy and barbaric but like the worse of the worse. It's worse then just losing your cool with a child and going to far (and that's the worst).

I'm just not really understanding any of this. I seen that the dude who has been avoiding police was in Rockford at a homeless shelter? Is that true? Where is the out rage? Why can't the cops just arrest him? If he's in Wisconsin I know it can still be done. I guess I just don't really even understand what is going on anymore in this case as far as who the police think did it. It's kind of obvious but this is a dismembered toddler. I think it's time to start getting **** done. Not just for the justice for Kyrian which is first in line but we as a society can not allow this. It's been going on way to long. It's time the baby dismemberer shows it's face. I want to see this monster own it instead of feeling like they deserve to walk around and hide.

The grandmother says for the public to leave the police alone. Okay I guess....who cares about updates, and press releases, and arrests, and the status on a innocent toddler who was dismembered. I guess we as the public should just be okay that something this barbaric seems to be on the back burner. But at the very same time I do get that some people do take crap to far. But man....wth I just don't understand. There is so much public outrage, and lynch mobs on sometime even undeserving people and here we have a dismembered toddler and no lynch mob. It's funny how that works.
 
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