OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #17

[SWADED]

The ways in which Kenneth's death is unlike the others make me think that he might be the clue to this whole thing.

It's interesting to think about KR relationship to these people, locations, and event, isn't it? Maybe we could discuss the differences and similarities? Off the top...

Differences:
- location: Left Fork Road(KR) vs. Union Hill Road
- time body found: afternoon (KR) vs. morning
- who discovered bodies/called 911: DS (KR) vs. JM/BJM and friends
- injuries: single gunshot wounds (KR) vs. multiple gunshot wounds and in some cases blunt force trauma
- crime scene details reported from family interviews: cash on body (KR) vs. open windows (CRSR & FR)
- children on site: no kids at KR
- animals on site: no chickens/pigs/hunting dogs at KR

Similarities:
- cannabis grow ops found at multiple locations including KR garage
- hobbies: derby cars
- property ownership: owned by same family members (I believe? Please correct if I'm wrong)
- property improvements within the last few years: garage at KR, pole barn at CRSR
- animals on site: dog(s)
- recent temperament: social media posts from multiple victims in the recent past may denote a sense of unease and DS reportedly described KR as "paranoid about security"
- supposed plans: DS/KR working on cars, GR in town to help CRSR help work on cars

Due to the similarities part, my opinion is that this crime is related to the grow ops most probably, but very possibly some of the cars were part of the larger money operation going on as well. Due to the differences, I don't think it was due to cockfighting, custody of the surviving young children who were present during the murders, or any kind of sudden violent event near CRSR home. I also do not personally think that GR was in the wrong place at the wrong time: I believe he was a target as well.

 

[NWLady]

http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/31791838/multiple-fatalities-reported-in-pike-county

Snipped by me:

All Adams County Ohio Valley Schools were on precautionary lockdown until 11 a.m., meaning no one was allowed in or out, school officials said. The schools are located about 10 miles from the shooting scenes.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I find it interesting to think about what LE may have been thinking in regards to their reasoning of why schools were on precautionary lockdown only until 11 a.m. Maybe it's just because they felt the family was the only target? But then again, maybe not as the quote below is also from the same article linked above.....

The gunman or gunmen, who shot eight family members Friday morning, is believed to be armed and extremely dangerous, according to Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader. He went on to say residents in the area should, "lock their doors and stay alert."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously, LE had their reasons for those statements and we may never know, regardless I find it an interesting thought to think about....

 

[The OG]

May have missed it with so much info in this case, but was any info released that they found the victims cell phones? I don't recall hearing anything about that.

I don't remember seeing it either, but I'll welcome anyone that can provide a link. This would be a significant clue. Were the cell phones found with the victims? If not, that would support a motive of "quieting the victims" . Even the dumbest criminals have to know the treasure trove of information for investigators that a cell phone would contain. If the murderers were obvious known associates, like friends or family, they would be less concerned about evidence that could be found on their phones. OTOH, associates in a criminal enterprise, whose identities are meant to be secret, would definitely get rid of those phones.

 

[MaryMac250]

The ways in which Kenneth's death is unlike the others make me think that he might be the clue to this whole thing.

For me though, the "not really knowing" Kenneth's TOD is a big problem. And, as has been said, LE probably knows or will know soon what his estimated TOD is. All we here now know is when his death was pronounced...and, of course, when DS's call came in. Based on that very limited information, almost all scenarios we come up with are of Kenneth being killed last. We don't really know that.

 

[NWLady]

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Investigators-Several-dead-at-Pike-County-Ohio-home-376728131.html

(Under update 4/22/16 @ 9:35 p.m.)

DeWine reiterated there's no specific threat to the community. He says the seven adults and a teenage boy who were killed had been targeted.

The whereabouts of the shooter or shooters aren't clear, and authorities are warning relatives and residents to take precautions.

 

[MaryMac250]

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain. I think most posters who have followed crimes for very long understood the situation, but it is great to have a verified physician explain in detail how it works.

MOO

Actually, I think many people do not know the specifics of theTOD issue. No one has addressed it on these threads I'm pretty sure. I worked in healthcare for many years and do a lot of looking at death certificates in my genealogy work...never really heard or read that information. Thanks again!

 

[pepper 34]

I continue to believe the murderer(s) entered the home from behind the homes at least at CRsr's home and FR's homes. I think the killer(s) were aware of the security cameras and lights set to light up if anyone approached from the front sidewalk area. At first I thought FR's bedroom window was open because he liked it open at night and that maybe FR and HG were shot by someone standing outside on a box or whatever. But, I am now thinking that, if a person(s) entered by the back and sneaked into FR's bedroom and quietly closed the bedroom door, he/she could then kill FR and HG without the 3 year old observing the murder. The murderer(s) could then quickly jump out the window thus avoiding having to exit by exiting by the 3 year old who might have awakened temporarily due to the gun shots. So, then I wonder if the killer already knew the child was sleeping over or if he/she just happened to see the child on the way to FR's bedroom. As to CRsr and GR, I think one of them woke up or was already awake when the murderer(s) entered through the back door and yelled out an alarm for the other... or they were both already awake. I'm not so sure whoever killed them had not spent time in the home earlier as "friends" and the point was really for someone to "use the bathroom" and unlock the back door so it would be easy to re-enter later. Also, another purpose would be to try and get CR and GR pretty drunk or high so they'd be easier to kill and less cautious overall. I don't think CR was tortured but I think he fought back when he saw these person(s) enter his house with guns. I think GR made an attempt to exit through the far right window to try and escape and wake FR... get help asap. GR was caught and dragged back in and that's why I think there were 2 killers. One killer is possible though. One killer could have already shot CR multiple times before running to catch GR because exiting through a window is not something that would be easy or quick to do. Something as simple as a sticky window could slow a person down enough to prevent escape. The killer then beats GR badly and CR is already dead or dying. I have thought for some time that the bodies were dragged down to the bedroom because the killer thought someone might stop by to visit with CR and GR. The killer would arrange the lighting as it would be if CR and GR were both asleep because he/she knows what that arrangement is and how the house SHOULD appear if everything is fine. Then the killer headed down the street to DR's to wait in the woods across the street for her lights to go out signaling it was time to kill all those in DR's home. I do think it was 2 murderers because I believe someone had some sort of weapon used for beating some of the victims. I doubt fists were used... they were cowards over all and had no intention of allowing any possibility of a "fair fight." These were home invasions and with the element of surprise and weapons drawn, these poor people stood no chance at all. I'm not so sure they were tough and trained... all they had to do was watch some Netflix movies, play video games, sit around and plot and plan about homes they either knew well or were told all about and have no heart or soul. I sure hope they're not sitting and gloating somewhere right now about how brave they were to attack sleeping people in the "safety" of their own beds... to me they're the lowest of the low.

 

[MaryMac250]

It's interesting to think about KR relationship to these people, locations, and event, isn't it? Maybe we could discuss the differences and similarities? Off the top...

Differences:
- location: Left Fork Road(KR) vs. Union Hill Road
- time body found: afternoon (KR) vs. morning
- who discovered bodies/called 911: DS (KR) vs. JM/BJM and friends
- injuries: single gunshot wounds (KR) vs. multiple gunshot wounds and in some cases blunt force trauma
- crime scene details reported from family interviews: cash on body (KR) vs. open windows (CRSR & FR)
- children on site: no kids at KR
- animals on site: no chickens/pigs/hunting dogs at KR

Similarities:
- cannabis grow ops found at multiple locations including KR garage
- hobbies: derby cars
- property ownership: owned by same family members (I believe? Please correct if I'm wrong)
- property improvements within the last few years: garage at KR, pole barn at CRSR
- animals on site: dog(s)
- recent temperament: social media posts from multiple victims in the recent past may denote a sense of unease and DS reportedly described KR as "paranoid about security"
- supposed plans: DS/KR working on cars, GR in town to help CRSR help work on cars

Due to the similarities part, my opinion is that this crime is related to the grow ops most probably, but very possibly some of the cars were part of the larger money operation going on as well. Due to the differences, I don't think it was due to cockfighting, custody of the surviving young children who were present during the murders, or any kind of sudden violent event near CRSR home. I also do not personally think that GR was in the wrong place at the wrong time: I believe he was a target as well.

DS reported there was a dog at KR's....and he had to restrain it for LE.

 

[NWLady]

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/ne...massacre-differs-from-most-mass-killin/nrMXm/

I hadn't read this article before but it is quite interesting (it more than likely has been posted and if so, I apologize for the repeat).
Brad Garrett, another former FBI agent who investigated violent crime, said the Pike County murders aren’t a textbook mass killing. While first details suggested something similar to a family killing, he said details that later emerged about a marijuana growing operation at some of the properties could suggest something different.
“It would appear that this is some sort of organized killing,” he said. “This isn’t somebody that got mad over a bad poker game or something … It was clearly done, I think on some level, to make a statement.”
He said agents are likely matching ballistics to identify weapons and the number of shooters. And they would delve into all forms of communication — cellphones, text messages, emails — to find out who the victims were communicating with.
“Who did they deal with, who did they sell to? All of these things, with some work, are findable,” he said.


Dan Tierney, spokesman for DeWine, said his office cautions people against comparing the Rhoden slayings to other mass killings.
“This is not what people think of when they think of mass shooting,” he said. “We had the execution-style murder of eight individuals. It was done in the night and it was done in a manner where someone tried to hide their tracks.”
And while current and former investigators say it’s still early for an investigation of this magnitude, the lack of information beyond those basic details has led some in Pike County to worry the trail could go cold.

 

[NWLady]

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/ne...massacre-differs-from-most-mass-killin/nrMXm/

DeWine understands the growing frustration over the case.
“If I lived in Pike County, I’d feel like it’s been a long time,” he said, adding that dozens of investigators are on the case, in addition to local and federal law enforcement.
“They’re going to stay down there until we figure this thing out. In my opinion, it will be solved.”

 

[SWADED]

DS reported there was a dog at KR's....and he had to restrain it for LE.

Yes - Brownie was the name I believe? I'm thinking Brownie probably wasn't a hunting dog though.

That's a guess by me because
1) normally you'd have more than one hunting dog
2) I'm not sure who would go crazy first, a hunting dog cooped up in a 5th wheel, or the person who had to listen to that dog's racket echoing off the walls inside the 5th wheel

ETA: I think maybe my post was confusing bc I put "hunting dogs" as part of the animals in the "Differences" section but "dogs" in the "Similarities" section. My intent was to say that I haven't gotten the impression from anything I've seen or read that KR property on Left Fork Road had any dogs other than Brownie, who was in the 5th wheel as reported by DS. We know FR (and CRSR by proximity) household had hunting dogs on tethers outside bc we saw them in videos and pictures from the crime scenes.

Thank you for pointing that out!

 

[Obiwankenobi]

Yes - Brownie was the name I believe? I'm thinking Brownie probably wasn't a hunting dog though.

That's a guess by me because
1) normally you'd have more than one hunting dog
2) I'm not sure who would go crazy first, a hunting dog cooped up in a 5th wheel, or the person who had to listen to that dog's racket echoing off the walls inside the 5th wheel

I'm thinking Brownie is a pit bull. I think I read that somewhere!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/ne...massacre-differs-from-most-mass-killin/nrMXm/

I hadn't read this article before but it is quite interesting (it more than likely has been posted and if so, I apologize for the repeat).
Brad Garrett, another former FBI agent who investigated violent crime, said the Pike County murders aren’t a textbook mass killing. While first details suggested something similar to a family killing, he said details that later emerged about a marijuana growing operation at some of the properties could suggest something different.
“It would appear that this is some sort of organized killing,” he said. “This isn’t somebody that got mad over a bad poker game or something … It was clearly done, I think on some level, to make a statement.”
He said agents are likely matching ballistics to identify weapons and the number of shooters. And they would delve into all forms of communication — cellphones, text messages, emails — to find out who the victims were communicating with.
“Who did they deal with, who did they sell to? All of these things, with some work, are findable,” he said.


Dan Tierney, spokesman for DeWine, said his office cautions people against comparing the Rhoden slayings to other mass killings.
“This is not what people think of when they think of mass shooting,” he said. “We had the execution-style murder of eight individuals. It was done in the night and it was done in a manner where someone tried to hide their tracks.”
And while current and former investigators say it’s still early for an investigation of this magnitude, the lack of information beyond those basic details has led some in Pike County to worry the trail could go cold.

I still think this was personal. Mass shootings have occurred before and were done by family members or someone such as an ex, or friend or aquaintance. Guy Heinz Jr was able to come in a very tiny mobile home and successfully murdered 8 family members as they slept. So while I know what the ex-FBI is referring to when he means mass shootings however I do not agree with him that this has to be some organized crime. There are suspects who are organized and disorganized in the way they commit their murders. Its based on the individuals and how much thought they put into it.

Imo, an organized hit by say a drug cartel wouldn't entail 32 shots being fired. That is not organized...........it is very sloppily done.

The element of surprise always favors the suspect/s. I am sure each of these victims were sleeping when the attacks began. If they were in a deep sleep they wouldn't have time to react before it was all over with. It takes less than a second to fire a firearm each time. Their brain would have to have enough time to comprehend what was even happening even if it was a few seconds so they could react to the situation they found themselves in. In a few seconds they are dead. I do believe it was at least two shooters working in tandem.

I just wish they would solve this case but it may be one that takes months or years to solve. Around 35% of murder cases are never solved and all of those weren't done by some organized crime hit man/men.

Suspects unfortunately get lucky sometimes. If this was a surprise attack on most of them there really wouldn't be any reason why they would have left evidence behind of themselves. Even the one who was shot 9 times may have tried to flee but its impossible to flee from bullets. The perpetrator/s would kill one and then go on to the next one who it seems was unaware of what had happened to the rest of their family members.

 

[mrssmith23]

http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/31791838/multiple-fatalities-reported-in-pike-county

Snipped by me:

All Adams County Ohio Valley Schools were on precautionary lockdown until 11 a.m., meaning no one was allowed in or out, school officials said. The schools are located about 10 miles from the shooting scenes.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I find it interesting to think about what LE may have been thinking in regards to their reasoning of why schools were on precautionary lockdown only until 11 a.m. Maybe it's just because they felt the family was the only target? But then again, maybe not as the quote below is also from the same article linked above.....

The gunman or gunmen, who shot eight family members Friday morning, is believed to be armed and extremely dangerous, according to Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader. He went on to say residents in the area should, "lock their doors and stay alert."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously, LE had their reasons for those statements and we may never know, regardless I find it an interesting thought to think about....

At that initial time, they had very limited information. It's a pretty precautionary measure. Had they not put schools on lockdown and a second family unrelated to the murders was killed, it would have been a BIG problem. Everyone has to worry about covering their own butts and keeping people safe, especially when they aren't entirely sure what the situation may hold.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mrssmith23]

At that initial time, they had very limited information. It's a pretty precautionary measure. Had they not put schools on lockdown and a second family unrelated to the murders was killed, it would have been a BIG problem. Everyone has to worry about covering their own butts and keeping people safe, especially when they aren't entirely sure what the situation may hold.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Adding to this, when we had a mass shooter in Kalamazoo that was driving around shooting random people, he was very close to campus and there were NO alerts to students that multiple shootings had occurred, let alone that they were related. This was a HUGE issue amongst the community. Essentially, public safety defended themselves saying they knew who they were looking for, but the fact that random people out and about at restaurants, car dealerships, etc were being shot and killed and no alert was sent out by the media, school, or police, telling people to stay indoors, there was a big fuss, especially knowing college kids are out walking around in that area. Damned if you do, damned if you don't!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mamamumbles]

I still think this was personal. Mass shootings have occurred before and were done by family members or someone such as an ex, or friend or aquaintance. Guy Heinz Jr was able to come in a very tiny mobile home and successfully murdered 8 family members as they slept. So while I know what the ex-FBI is referring to when he means mass shootings however I do not agree with him that this has to be some organized crime. There are suspects who are organized and disorganized in the way they commit their murders. Its based on the individuals and how much thought they put into it.

Imo, an organized hit by say a drug cartel wouldn't entail 32 shots being fired. That is not organized...........it is very sloppily done.

The element of surprise always favors the suspect/s. I am sure each of these victims were sleeping when the attacks began. If they were in a deep sleep they wouldn't have time to react before it was all over with. It takes less than a second to fire a firearm each time. Their brain would have to have enough time to comprehend what was even happening even if it was a few seconds so they could react to the situation they found themselves in. In a few seconds they are dead. I do believe it was at least two shooters working in tandem.

I just wish they would solve this case but it may be one that takes months or years to solve. Around 35% of murder cases are never solved and all of those weren't done by some organized crime hit man/men.

Suspects unfortunately get lucky sometimes. If this was a surprise attack on most of them there really wouldn't be any reason why they would have left evidence behind of themselves. Even the one who was shot 9 times may have tried to flee but its impossible to flee from bullets. The perpetrator/s would kill one and then go on to the next one who it seems was unaware of what had happened to the rest of their family members.

I don't think it was sloppy. If it was sloppy they would have been caught. I also do not think cartels are clean murderers. I've seen pictures of the decapitated heads cartels leave in bathtubs. They are not clean or swift, and they do torture sometimes. They do sometimes kill kids, but in general they do not. It is against most gang codes to kill a little kid or baby.
I do agree there had to be more than one person. And it was personal against the whole family. The KR situation is sketchy since he was so far away, etc.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[The OG]

I still think this was personal. Mass shootings have occurred before and were done by family members or someone such as an ex, or friend or aquaintance. Guy Heinz Jr was able to come in a very tiny mobile home and successfully murdered 8 family members as they slept. So while I know what the ex-FBI is referring to when he means mass shootings however I do not agree with him that this has to be some organized crime. There are suspects who are organized and disorganized in the way they commit their murders. Its based on the individuals and how much thought they put into it.

Imo, an organized hit by say a drug cartel wouldn't entail 32 shots being fired. That is not organized...........it is very sloppily done.

The element of surprise always favors the suspect/s. I am sure each of these victims were sleeping when the attacks began. If they were in a deep sleep they wouldn't have time to react before it was all over with. It takes less than a second to fire a firearm each time. Their brain would have to have enough time to comprehend what was even happening even if it was a few seconds so they could react to the situation they found themselves in. In a few seconds they are dead. I do believe it was at least two shooters working in tandem.

I just wish they would solve this case but it may be one that takes months or years to solve. Around 35% of murder cases are never solved and all of those weren't done by some organized crime hit man/men.

Suspects unfortunately get lucky sometimes. If this was a surprise attack on most of them there really wouldn't be any reason why they would have left evidence behind of themselves. Even the one who was shot 9 times may have tried to flee but its impossible to flee from bullets. The perpetrator/s would kill one and then go on to the next one who it seems was unaware of what had happened to the rest of their family members.

ITA. This was personal and mass killings do happen by family members. When I first heard about this case, I thought about the teenage girl in east TX that had her parents and brother killed. I believe she, a female friend, and their boyfriends were all charged with murder. I can't remember their names. This case is different because of the apparent level of planning and the concealment of evidence. All this tells me is that this wasn't orchestrated by an impetuous teenager but by an adult who is more mindful of the consequences, someone with a lot to lose.

Edit: The case I mentioned was the Erin Caffey case. She had her mother, father, and TWO younger brothers shot and then set the house on fire. All died, except her father. He miraculously survived and escaped the burning structure. The motive? Her parents didn't approve of the dirtbag she was seeing. She and her friends are in prison.

 

[NWLady]

http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/31791838/multiple-fatalities-reported-in-pike-county

Snipped by me:

All Adams County Ohio Valley Schools were on precautionary lockdown until 11 a.m., meaning no one was allowed in or out, school officials said. The schools are located about 10 miles from the shooting scenes.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I find it interesting to think about what LE may have been thinking in regards to their reasoning of why schools were on precautionary lockdown only until 11 a.m. Maybe it's just because they felt the family was the only target? But then again, maybe not as the quote below is also from the same article linked above.....

The gunman or gunmen, who shot eight family members Friday morning, is believed to be armed and extremely dangerous, according to Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader. He went on to say residents in the area should, "lock their doors and stay alert."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously, LE had their reasons for those statements and we may never know, regardless I find it an interesting thought to think about....

At that initial time, they had very limited information. It's a pretty precautionary measure. Had they not put schools on lockdown and a second family unrelated to the murders was killed, it would have been a BIG problem. Everyone has to worry about covering their own butts and keeping people safe, especially when they aren't entirely sure what the situation may hold.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, it is common sense IMO that it was a "precautionary measure" that the school was put on lockdown - it happens all the time where you see it in the news, not just in this case. However, my point was, as stated in my post, was the "reasoning of why schools were on precautionary lockdown only until 11 a.m." (Note, ONLY till 11 a.m.) For example, was it because LE/investigators thinking possibly the killer(s) were already out of the area, did they have reason to believe nobody else (other than family) was in danger, how much could LE/investigators have already known that aided them in making this decision, etc etc etc. My post had nothing to do with it being a negative thing or a wrong thing to do by putting the school on lockdown, but rather was thinking out loud and trying to come up with ideas of what LE may have been thinking at that time and hoping it may spur some conversation/thoughts (versus a debate of why it was on lockdown). Hope that clarifies my post.

 

[pinkpan]

I don't feel like this is a custody related issue, simply because you still have to factor in KR's death, and it just doesn't fit in anywhere. I DO feel like Gary might have been "collateral damage" in that he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Kenneth, on the other hand....somebody went out of their way to get Kenneth. What truly baffles me is...three women, two laying beside their babies, and a 16 year old boy somehow warranted more shots than Kenneth, an older man who, given half a chance, probably could have defended himself. Why? Why did CSR, and all of CSR's immediate family seem to get the brunt of the gunshots? Aside from cousin GR's 3 and KR's 1, the rest of the 30+ gunshots were spread out across CSR, CJR, DR, FR, HG and HR.

There has to be something to that.

I'm not as convinced they were all sound asleep and were shot "while sleeping"...I've even suspected that they may have forced them get back in bed. It may be that Kenneth was easier since no one else was in the home where the others it was more intense with multiple targets so there was more going on that would've created more aggression in the other homes.

The other thought is that there could've been multiple people at each location and therefore the killer that went to Kenneth's choose to shoot only once...maybe didn't have as much anger or aggression as the others.

I would be shocked if we learned that one person was able to execute all of this so if you believe that theory you could assume the choices made be each killer may have differed.

 

[The OG]

I'm not as convinced they were all sound asleep and were shot "while sleeping"...I've even suspected that they may have forced them get back in bed. It may be that Kenneth was easier since no one else was in the home where the others it was more intense with multiple targets so there was more going on that would've created more aggression in the other homes.

The other thought is that there could've been multiple people at each location and therefore the killer that went to Kenneth's choose to shoot only once...maybe didn't have as much anger or aggression as the others.

I would be shocked if we learned that one person was able to execute all of this so if you believe that theory you could assume the choices made be each killer may have differed.

True. The discovery of the bodies in bed doesn't mean they were killed in their sleep. This could be part of the "staging" that has been mentioned. I do believe that most of the victims (FR, HG, KR, HR, and maybe CR2) were killed in their sleep.