Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 7.6.2016

[Tortoise]

Anneliese Burgess, a spokesperson for the Pistorius family, said the trial had been a “long, drawn out process” and considered the case over.

“To a certain extent there is relief that this is the last chapter, that they won’t be coming back,” she told reporters outside the courthouse.

Carl Pistorius, brother of the former athlete, said on Twitter that the family had “the utmost respect” for Masipa.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/06/oscar-pistorius-jailed-for-xx-years-reeva-steenkamp

Is it perhaps a little presumptuous to be stating that the case is considered over? That may be the opinion of the arrogant Pistorius family, but for me it ain’t over till the fat lady sings.

If I were in Oscar's shoes I'd be feeling very nervous right now waiting for the 14 days to expire.

I have never heard of a murder case, ever, where the murderer's family makes a statement. Usually they would not dare nor even want to try and outshadow the victim's family on the steps of the court. They have no concept of right and wrong.

It says all you need to know about sentencing, that the murderer's brother is crowing.

 

[Marfa Lights]

Do they really have to keep being labelled 'arrogant'? They have supported a family member. They have faced labels, threats and criticism for a situation they didn't put themselves into. Pistorius damaged his own family as well as the Steenkamps with his actions on the morning of the 14th. Compassion shouldn't -imo- only be afforded to the victim, her family and friends (their entitlement to sympathy and compassion should go without saying).

This case has dragged on. All involved -whatever side of the courtroom they sit on - have been in a kind of three year limbo. It is natural, surely, that with the sentence increase the family should hope that this is now an end to the process...?

As far as I am concerned, Aimée and Carl were complicit in the crime by removing and tampering with evidence and Uncle Arnold has aided and abetted Oscar in helping him pervert the course of justice. I did have to respect Henke for refusing to claim ownership of the illegal ammo in Oscar's safe.

 

[mrjitty]

Many thanks. I have tracked down the pleading document and nowhere does it state his defence will be PPD. I appreciate you will have gauged this to be the case but I was under the impression that all defendants were obliged to state their exact defence. Is this not the case? I have read that in the UK it is a requirement.

They dont have to state "Our Defence is PPD"

Rather they Must articulate a Series of propositions which amount to PPD under THE Law

 

[aftermath]

As far as I am concerned, Aimée and Carl were complicit in the crime by removing and tampering with evidence and Uncle Arnold has aided and abetted Oscar in helping him pervert the course of justice. I did have to respect Henke for refusing to claim ownership of the illegal ammo in Oscar's safe.

I understand your issue with Carl re the phone, but we don't know exactly what happened there. If police asked for all phones and he deliberately witheld that one, then yes- massive issue with tampering with evidence. If police didn't ask, then would anyone think to volunteer it? Probably more preoccupied at that point. Thing is, we don't know the circumstances.
Same for the wiping of the phone. Was it deliberately wiped? Possibly. Was it wiped in the process of him backing up /transferring info and data etc to make sure he had a record of everything in case he couldn't trust police? Possibly. Still tampering BUT why didn't state pursue it?

Aimee- i think you are being harsh. We don't even have her account. Would she risk getting Carice Stander involved in some kind of handbag-cover up? According to Carice, she felt wrong just leaving Reeva's bag on the side and wanted to ensure it reached Mrs Steenkamp, so they drove it to the police station and handed it in. This smacks of a fairly paranoid mistrust of the police on the scene to me rather than anything more sinister.

As for Arnold...what on earth has he done except to support his nephew who sees him as a father figure? How have you come to the conclusion that he has colluded with Pistorius to pervert the course of justice?!

 

[soozieqtips]

Yes, and what about the reference to Pistorius still being single and nothing much having changed for him? I've read in several tabloids that he's back with Jenna Edkins and even seem to recollect reading that she'd moved in with him to provide 'comfort'.

Also, what on earth was Masipa thinking of, referencing the Steenkamps' ability to heal when it was quite clear from Barry Steenkamp's testimony that he hasn't healed, isn't healing and isn't likely to heal?

BIB - I'd like to know where in the following speech Masipa decided the Steenkamps were healing.

Describing the effect his daughter's death have had on the family, he (Barry) added: "I don't wish that on any human being. It devastates us. I think of Reeva all the time. Our lives changed completely. I can't mix with people any more. I sit on the veranda at 2am which has become a habit and I smoke my cigarettes. It is very difficult to explain when you talk about the incident. I don't wish that on any human being."

I think her attitude towards the Steenkamps is chilling. She even took words out of context to mitigate for OP, like when Barry said they'd forgiven Pistorius, Masipa omitted to add that he'd also said "But he must pay for his crime." Pretty sure Barry and June didn't think an extra year counted as paying for his crime. Still, it's comforting to know that Masipa knows what the Steenkamps feel and think better than they do.

 

[Cloen]

I understand your issue with Carl re the phone, but we don't know exactly what happened there. If police asked for all phones and he deliberately witheld that one, then yes- massive issue with tampering with evidence. If police didn't ask, then would anyone think to volunteer it? Probably more preoccupied at that point. Thing is, we don't know the circumstances.
Same for the wiping of the phone. Was it deliberately wiped? Possibly. Was it wiped in the process of him backing up /transferring info and data etc to make sure he had a record of everything in case he couldn't trust police? Possibly. Still tampering BUT why didn't state pursue it?

Aimee- i think you are being harsh. We don't even have her account. Would she risk getting Carice Stander involved in some kind of handbag-cover up? According to Carice, she felt wrong just leaving Reeva's bag on the side and wanted to ensure it reached Mrs Steenkamp, so they drove it to the police station and handed it in. This smacks of a fairly paranoid mistrust of the police on the scene to me rather than anything more sinister.

As for Arnold...what on earth has he done except to support his nephew who sees him as a father figure? How have you come to the conclusion that he has colluded with Pistorius to pervert the course of justice?!

I can't remember who investigated the disappearing of one of Pistorius' phones and it's data - , it may have been EWN reporter, but anycase, the data was deleted via an account in name of Titanium Hulk ( which just happened to be Carl P's account) . The phone had gone from the scene of the crime and returned by Carl to the Police Station about 4/5 days (?) after Oscar was arrested. So some fiddling went on, that phone could have held vital clues which could have given a reason for an argument between Reeva and Oscar that night eg it was Valentine's Day , so early hours of 14th February something could have been on his phone that he hadn't wanted Reeva to see, we don't know. If there was nothing of interest on that phone , why erase the data ? hmm
http://ewn.co.za/2014/10/02/FIRST-ON-EWN-Police-suspected-Carl-Pistorius-of-deleting-data
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/02/oscar-pistorius-phoned-ex-girlfriend-book

 

[Cloen]

Karyn Maughan and Annika Larsen look back on the Pistorius trial.

http://www.enca.com/media/video/enca-reporters-look-back-at-the-journey-of-oscar-pistorius

Karyn Maughan the Legal Journo who's apparently Carl Pistorius's girlfriend.......it must have been all his appearances in Court dressed up like he was going to a wedding every day that caught her attention, and the family seem to have connections, bit useful. .....
conflict of interests i think

There's always misreporting with crimes early stages, nothing new there
The woman on this interview says she didn't like the way Pistorius was hunted down and he had a haunted look at the Bail Hearing - boo hoo diddums , he was probably shatting himself because he blew his girlfriends brains out after an argument and terrified who at Silverwoods heard Reeva's screaming and who was going to testify against him later in Court, the wheels of the 'story' and excuses were kicking in already.

Karyn Maughan talking about Nel and the crime scene, - I remember, the disappearing cord extension , the one fan in his Affidavit at Bail Hearing, turned into two fans, the disappearing phone etc, the flakey Affidavit he was forced to make to get Bail,, which was added to as the trial went on

 

[Marfa Lights]

I understand your issue with Carl re the phone, but we don't know exactly what happened there. If police asked for all phones and he deliberately witheld that one, then yes- massive issue with tampering with evidence. If police didn't ask, then would anyone think to volunteer it? Probably more preoccupied at that point. Thing is, we don't know the circumstances.
Same for the wiping of the phone. Was it deliberately wiped? Possibly. Was it wiped in the process of him backing up /transferring info and data etc to make sure he had a record of everything in case he couldn't trust police? Possibly. Still tampering BUT why didn't state pursue it?

Aimee- i think you are being harsh. We don't even have her account. Would she risk getting Carice Stander involved in some kind of handbag-cover up? According to Carice, she felt wrong just leaving Reeva's bag on the side and wanted to ensure it reached Mrs Steenkamp, so they drove it to the police station and handed it in. This smacks of a fairly paranoid mistrust of the police on the scene to me rather than anything more sinister.

As for Arnold...what on earth has he done except to support his nephew who sees him as a father figure? How have you come to the conclusion that he has colluded with Pistorius to pervert the course of justice?!

It was rumored that the State cut a deal with the defense not to prosecute Carl over the phone, something with respect to Botha I believe. Anyway, doubt we'll ever know for sure but they did not press charges against Carl for some reason when they easily could have. The police were not aware Oscar had two phones and did not track it down for some time. I believe it took roughly two weeks for the defense team to turn it over. Of course Carl deliberately wiped the contents. Isn't he supposedly a tech expert? Do you think he just accidentally wiped the contents and changed the password? Really?

Aimée and Carice Stander had NO REASON to take Reeva's handbag! Who would even think that would be acceptable to remove personal effects of a dead person from a crime scene? And Carice is a legal analyst of some kind so I assume she has studied some basic elements of criminal law. Neither one of those girls were close friends with Reeva. Were they going to drive the purse to Port Elizabeth?? No one in the Pistorius family even thought to call the Steenkamps.

Arnold's fingerprints are all over the Evidence Room video (it was even filmed at his house) and he admitted to setting up the ITV interview... both of which were intended to help manufacture evidence and misrepresent the truth in order to pervert justice.

 

[Viper]

IIRC No one said whether or not Pistorius' phone was "wiped." I'm sure Carl or someone did something with it but I don't know what, otherwise Pistorius would have wanted to keep it with him, I'm certain, instead of having it smuggled out of the crime scene.The police never got in to the device once it was finally surrendered, again IIRC, because Pistorius pretended that he forgot his password; they flew to the US just before the trial to try to get Apple to unlock it but AFAIK Apple either refused or was unable.If anyone remembers things differently that's fine, just going on my recollection.

 

[Marfa Lights]

IIRC No one said whether or not Pistorius' phone was "wiped." I'm sure Carl or someone did something with it but I don't know what, otherwise Pistorius would have wanted to keep it with him, I'm certain, instead of having it smuggled out of the crime scene.The police never got in to the device once it was finally surrendered, again IIRC, because Pistorius pretended that he forgot his password; they flew to the US just before the trial to try to get Apple to unlock it but AFAIK Apple either refused or was unable.If anyone remembers things differently that's fine, just going on my recollection.

Well, since it was synced with Carl's computer ("Titanium Hulk") and the password had been changed, one would think Carl could have cooperated and been of some assistance in the matter-- or had his butt subpoenaed.

http://ewn.co.za/2014/10/02/FIRST-ON-EWN-Police-suspected-Carl-Pistorius-of-deleting-data

 

[Gigi-G]

Well, since it was synced with Carl's computer ("Titanium Hulk") and the password had been changed, one would think Carl could have cooperated and been of some assistance in the matter-- or had his butt subpoenaed.

http://ewn.co.za/2014/10/02/FIRST-ON-EWN-Police-suspected-Carl-Pistorius-of-deleting-data

Many phone app's can offer a 'complete phone wipe' and a number of ways to get the phone to do it with out having hold of it.
It will leave the phone as a factory reset. Or needing the authority to 'tap in a pin' like a puk code. Or just unusable ' like an expensive brick'.
So it could of been accessed from anywhere anytime.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Marfa Lights]

Many phone app's can offer a 'complete phone wipe' and a number of ways to get the phone to do it with out having hold of it.
It will leave the phone as a factory reset. Or needing the authority to 'tap in a pin' like a puk code. Or just unusable ' like an expensive brick'.
So it could of been accessed from anywhere anytime.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Interesting. I think the forensics team working on technology for the State were able to determine that it had been last synced with a computer called "Titanium Hulk" and that had occurred shortly after the murder. As I recall, all of the WhatsApp messages, the call history and content of other text messages had been deleted.

 

[Cloen]

Interesting. I think the forensics team working on technology for the State were able to determine that it had been last synced with a computer called "Titanium Hulk" and that had occurred shortly after the murder. As I recall, all of the WhatsApp messages, the call history and content of other text messages had been deleted.

#966 exactly what i said,
It's known now that he did this, aiding and abetting - they're all bit corrupt
Masipa was far too sympathetic towards Pistorius , made me cringe, it really shouldn't have been allowed to happen
Why the hell she was appointed as a Judge in this Trial is equally flabbergasting.

 

[Cloen]

I understand your issue with Carl re the phone, but we don't know exactly what happened there. If police asked for all phones and he deliberately witheld that one, then yes- massive issue with tampering with evidence. If police didn't ask, then would anyone think to volunteer it? Probably more preoccupied at that point. Thing is, we don't know the circumstances.
Same for the wiping of the phone. Was it deliberately wiped? Possibly. Was it wiped in the process of him backing up /transferring info and data etc to make sure he had a record of everything in case he couldn't trust police? Possibly. Still tampering BUT why didn't state pursue it?

Aimee- i think you are being harsh. We don't even have her account. Would she risk getting Carice Stander involved in some kind of handbag-cover up? According to Carice, she felt wrong just leaving Reeva's bag on the side and wanted to ensure it reached Mrs Steenkamp, so they drove it to the police station and handed it in. This smacks of a fairly paranoid mistrust of the police on the scene to me rather than anything more sinister.

As for Arnold...what on earth has he done except to support his nephew who sees him as a father figure? How have you come to the conclusion that he has colluded with Pistorius to pervert the course of justice?!

of course the phone was wiped to hide something on it
It was returned to the police completely wiped of data
It's not rocket science

Arnold Pistorius was disappointed that Pistorius has had to spend any time in Prison even on this Murder conviction - which says it all about him
The man's insensitivity and deluded view of his Nephew is sickening, it was always about poor Oscar, never about Reeva for him and that family.
He sat in Court listening to the evidence against Pistorius , he can't be that stupid not to have seen the massive holes in Oscar's story that showed he was lying his way through his testimony,. So much didn't add up in any of Oscar's 'versions' , you can't seriously think that Uncle Arnold didn't know it too.

 

[mrjitty]

Guys please use discretion before quoting these kinds of posts

Removing the phone and deleting the data were both criminal offences.

 

[jilly]

of course the phone was wiped to hide something on it
It was returned to the police completely wiped of data
It's not rocket science

Arnold Pistorius was disappointed that Pistorius has had to spend any time in Prison even on this Murder conviction - which says it all about him
The man's insensitivity and deluded view of his Nephew is sickening, it was always about poor Oscar, never about Reeva for him and that family.
He sat in Court listening to the evidence against Pistorius , he can't be that stupid not to have seen the massive holes in Oscar's story that showed he was lying his way through his testimony,. So much didn't add up in any of Oscar's 'versions' , you can't seriously think that Uncle Arnold didn't know it too.

Yup. Of course he knew. Money, Power and Privilege. It was all about the Pistorius name. Remember how they tried to pay off June and Barry. They're all the same in that family figuring that they are some sort of royalty and above the law.

 

[soozieqtips]

Interview with Piers Morgan just 4 months before OP murdered Reeva.

http://oscarpistorius.com/wp-responsive/?p=354

Slight change of attitude towards him later!

“Fallen hero? Try ‘angry, gun-toting maniac’. Judge behaved like a fan-girl and sentenced accordingly. Disgusting.”

PS - there are some sweet pics of OP as a child (before progressing to the murderer he would become.)

 

[soozieqtips]

Yup. Of course he knew. Money, Power and Privilege. It was all about the Pistorius name. Remember how they tried to pay off June and Barry. They're all the same in that family figuring that they are some sort of royalty and above the law.

BIB - and you can see why. I mean, look at how the murderer's escalating bad behaviour was allowed to escalate without any repercussions. Plus his siblings must have been very confident they could get away with crime scene tampering, evidenced by the fact they did get away with it. They've been the untouchables. And now with this hilariously short sentence, they must be clapping their hands with glee. Murder = 3 years served. Couldn't really get much better than that for them.

 

[Belgarion]

Interesting extract from the SCA judgement ( S v Malgas) which details sentencing procedures and to which Masipa refers.

It signals that it has deliberately and advisedly left it to the courts to decide in the final analysis whether the circumstances of any particular case call for a departure from the prescribed sentence. In doing so, they are required to regard the prescribed sentences as being generally appropriate for crimes of the kind specified and enjoined not to depart from them unless they are satisfied that there is weighty justification for doing so. A departure must be justified by reference to circumstances which can be seen to be substantial and compelling as contrasted with circumstances of little significance or of debatable validity or which reflect a purely personal preference unlikely to be shared by many.

Note the last sentence.

I think it safe to say not many by a long way agree with her preferences

 

[cottonweaver]

............all that stuff in WS pages December 2015, on from here onwards, pg 42, then through spring until thread was closed

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...torius-Discussion-Thread-66-the-appeal/page42
combrink, montsho cases.
links etc are there.