TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #4

[mrseeker]

A few of the Kingston daughters have left the group and were on a series about helping others get out. I believe it's airing again right now on A&E. The show is called Escaping Polygamy.

I'll look around and see if there is a way to contact any of the girls. Maybe they can ask people they if Lori looks familiar.

There is another group that has connections to Idaho and Bountiful, BC. I have wondered if perhaps she could come from them. If she did come from a cult you could understand why someone has not come forward. She probably would have been home-schooled or in a small cult run school, the fellow cult members would not want to cooperate with the outside authorities, and perhaps might not even know about the case. The Boise connection, is real. we do know she was there at least long enough to get the id.

 

[KLCD620]

They need to put her appearance from 1988 Idaho ID picture on large bulletin boards in every where from CA, OR, WA, ID, MT, WY, NV, UT and AZ and label it "UID, do you recognize her before 1988?" Call us free toll @ *advertiser censored*-*advertiser censored*-xxxx and provide us with info about her.

I'm sure there's people seen her from same town, school levels, friends with her, etc prior to she walked out from old life for good in 1988.

 

[awillis0513]

There is another group that has connections to Idaho and Bountiful, BC. I have wondered if perhaps she could come from them. If she did come from a cult you could understand why someone has not come forward. She probably would have been home-schooled or in a small cult run school, the fellow cult members would not want to cooperate with the outside authorities, and perhaps might not even know about the case. The Boise connection, is real. we do know she was there at least long enough to get the id.

I have thought this group could be a possibility, especially since there haven't been hits on her DNA. I'm assuming, given the arrests of many leaders of polygamous groups in America, that she could have triggered a match. Even though they only had part of her DNA, these groups are just chuck-full of inbreeding. So, I would think something would match.


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[awillis0513]

One aspect I find contradictory is the stripper time of her life. It would provide an income and she did have breast enlargement , two circumstances that might mean its true. Seems inconsistent with her soon religious activity, but I guess not impossible. I still see a man in this scenario pulling the strings. And at some point this man went away, died, prison or just left. Total conjecture but it might explain what got this id change ball rolling. I still want to know if any men about this age changed their name in Dallas during July 1988 with limited ID. This would be pre-Blake of course. Maybe Blake met her as a stripper and not at church.

Not for nothing, but I went to a Christian school and some of the more "conservative" girls were known to get pretty freaky for periods of time. (We always called it, "Losing my religion" phases.). Then they would calm back down and be all religious again. But I knew one woman in particular who became active in the adult industry, only to go back to religion in the end.


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[CaseCracka]

They need to put her appearance from 1988 Idaho ID picture on large bulletin boards in every where from CA, OR, WA, ID, MT, WY, NV, UT and AZ and label it "UID, do you recognize her before 1988?" Call us free toll @ *advertiser censored*-*advertiser censored*-xxxx and provide us with info about her.

I'm sure there's people seen her from same town, school levels, friends with her, etc prior to she walked out from old life for good in 1988.

Why only those states? The portion of the notes that stands out to me is the library # in PA. It's literally the outlier on the paper. Everything else is out west and closer in proximity. I have a hunch the library number was important to her. As I stated in a longer post, she had to have dialed that library # while being in the area code OR knew the area code by heart (by 1995 it was mandatory to dial the number while in and out of the area code). Since it's not listed, to me, that suggest that FLEK knew the number quite well.

 

[EmiLove832]

I read a post here not too long ago that the DNA was removed from Ancestry since Ancestry does not support mtDNA anymore.

If someone downloaded Ancestry results, they could be entered into familytreedna.com. Before Ancestry and 23 & me made changes, Family tree DNA allowed users to upload their DNA to access more matches.

I wonder if Ancestry could retrieve those results even though they are removed from the system.

 

[HerStory]

From the Ancestry website....

 

[ArtsyOwl]

I did wonder about the British ancestry because of Lori's love of tea and also, Irish because she chose the name Kennedy-which as you all know, is an Irish name.
I will have a scope around online for missing Irish and English women, dating back to the 70s. It can't hurt to look, eh?

 

[Coco'sMommy]

Hi there, first time posting on this board. Don't know if this has been mentioned earlier or not, please bear with me. When I was reading the theories about FLEK possibly being from a polygamist group, it triggered my memory. Does anyone remember the FBI shootout in Utah with a polygamist group called the Singers? I googled it and it turns out to have happened late January, 1988 which would fit with the timeline of FLEK's first known identity change. Just wondered what any of you thought.

 

[mrseeker]

I did wonder about the British ancestry because of Lori's love of tea and also, Irish because she chose the name Kennedy-which as you all know, is an Irish name.
I will have a scope around online for missing Irish and English women, dating back to the 70s. It can't hurt to look, eh?

Interesting point. Wonder if she was the daughter of an English or Irish national and ran away instead of returning. Or maybe she was even orphaned while here. The name change using the dead american child would give her instant citizenship.

 

[Harriet]

Interesting point. Wonder if she was the daughter of an English or Irish national and ran away instead of returning. Or maybe she was even orphaned while here. The name change using the dead american child would give her instant citizenship.

I thought this too.
The good shepherd shelter that BP jr volunteered legal services to was once a home for teenage girls. The good shepherd order of nuns ran the notorious Magdalene laundries in Ireland as depicted in the film The Magdalene sisters. Women who had babies out of wedlock were used as slave labour in horrendous conditions and this was condoned by the government. These babies were adopted and many were taken to America. I wondered if Flek could one of these babies and was searching for a birth mother?

I wondered if Flek was a child born in Ireland

 

[HerStory]

So, everyone is pretty much looking at each other to pull the FOI trigger while everyone speculates? ��
Sheesh people..... can Canadians apply? LOL

 

[awillis0513]

So, everyone is pretty much looking at each other to pull the FOI trigger while everyone speculates? ��
Sheesh people..... can Canadians apply? LOL

I'm more than happy to do it. I can finally put that political science degree to some use. I will submit and post here tonight.


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[Owutatangledweb]

I'm more than happy to do it. I can finally put that political science degree to some use. I will submit and post here tonight.


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LOL, I was gonna offer to use my poly sci degree, but I think you got this "A". Beats watching news reports of the political convention!

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Hi there, first time posting on this board. Don't know if this has been mentioned earlier or not, please bear with me. When I was reading the theories about FLEK possibly being from a polygamist group, it triggered my memory. Does anyone remember the FBI shootout in Utah with a polygamist group called the Singers? I googled it and it turns out to have happened late January, 1988 which would fit with the timeline of FLEK's first known identity change. Just wondered what any of you thought.

Pretty darn close to 402 months. But I think it's just coincidence.

http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/news/55780873-78/swapp-hearing-singer-law.html.csp


• Addam Swapp • Served 18� years on federal charges for bombing of a Kamas LDS meetinghouse and Marion, Utah, and the subsequent killing of Corrections Officer Fred House during a 13-day standoff. Sentenced to up to 15 years on a state manslaughter charge.

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm more than happy to do it. I can finally put that political science degree to some use. I will submit and post here tonight.


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LOL, I was gonna offer to use my poly sci degree, but I think you got this "A". Beats watching news reports of the political convention!

Thank you for doing the FOI request! I don't know anything about how to do that. I'm really looking forward to seeing if there is any new info.
I'm not sure if this is possible, but could one of you submit a FOI request for Lori's suicide investigation as well? I know this case has never been about solving the suicide but we might get a copy of a portion of the suicide notes to compare handwriting or we might learn new information we don't know about Lori from that investigation's notes. Even in a clear-cut case of suicide there would be a police report, right?

 

[Gardener1850]

Anyone come up with any new Howder info or a new FOIA request?


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I came across a strange public records entry for Fred H. on Familysearch. It's someone's name in Ponder, Texas which is in Denton, County. It says this man is "also known as" Fred A H****r.
They appear to be connected via an address in Valley, Washington. Fred H died in Valley, WA. That address, however, does not exist. It doesn't come up in any reverse address searches and looking at it with Google earth you can see there is nothing there.
This man, GS, has a Texas birth record, marriage record, etc. He appears legit on paper--meaning he is not just an alias that Fred H. used at some point. But I can't explain why this GS would be listed as AKA Fred H. Anyone have any thoughts?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJ4Q-PL2W

PS: His wife and her parents have an interesting address history. Namely, her parents lived in Scottsdale, AZ around 1996-97. I can't find her in present day or find any yearbook photos, but I have strong doubts she could be FLEK because they had 3 children in the late 1990's. Seems unlikely FLEK could go missing (in either 2004 or 2010) and not trigger any search from her 3 kids.

 

[Gardener1850]

From THE PAPER TRIP II (1985)
*****************************

"Eden press now offers ID by MAIL, a complete guide to all the ID firms and their various products. Everything from 'drivers licenses,' state ID cards, student/employee ID, birth certificates, badges, press cards, memberships and diplomas is included. A special feature is an up-to-date section on ID machines, with a list of manufacturers. Price is $19.95." p.15

"Now that you know the date and place of birth, you can easily write to the county recorder and obtain P.W.'s birth certificate. Using this is an out-of-state context (where the person died in a state other than the one in which he is born), you will free yourself from any possible cross-referencing. You can use the certified copy of the birth certificate to obtain a new driver's license, state ID card, etc. You can also send in for a 'duplicate' Social Security card, and get it within a few weeks." p.17

"The safest way to use 'takeover' ID is to use it in a state different from that in which the person was born and died. Since the states are the basic repositories of almost all ID records, rather than any central file, it makes sense to operate in a state in which no records were ever compiled. ALL the federal records, such as Social Security, military, and passport, are initially derived from state records, and will not reflect data which have not originated from the states." p.17

"The COURT method is more foolproof. You may want to have an attorney file all the forms for you and accompany you to court, but it's also possible to prepare all the forms yourself. Clerks of most courts are quite helpful, and will at least tell you all the forms needed and the fees required for filing. They will set up your date for court appearance, and can usually be cajoled into providing other useful tidbits of information as well." p.18

"The way to carry out this new paper trip is to obtain all new ID from the state in which you change your name and then move to the state where you wish to live or operate under your new name. Once in the new state, begin 'trading in' your out-of-state, new ID for ID from your new state. The new state will have no reason to believe you are anyone other than who your old state ID says you are." p.18 (why did she stay in Texas after changing her name there?)



100 WAYS TO DISAPPEAR AND LIVE FREE
************************************
http://www.textfiles.com/survival/dissapp.txt

"It can be super-cool to room in someone else's apartment or home. Check the daily newspapers for ads under heading like 'Rooms to share', 'rentals to share', or 'apartments to share'. This way all records relating to occupancy will already be in someone else's name."

"The basic technique is to recreate the records you want, provide the address of a mail forwarding service as that of the source of those records, and handle all correspondence *yourself*. By using photo duplication of altered documents, a little rubber-stamping, or even some "quick-print" offset printing, you can easily and rather quickly come up with working solutions to some of the most baffling problems in starting a new identity. You can have a field day creating all kinds of "backgrounds". The only limitation is your own imagination. These methods WORK, too!!"

"Receive all your mail at a 24-hour Post Office box. Use your 'legal' address to obtain the box, or any "friendly" address for that matter. Once you have the box, and continue to pay the rent for it, you can move every day of the week, and the Post Office won't care."


Wikipedia page on "GHOSTING"
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosting_(identity_theft)

"Among other pointers, the pamphlet advised readers to search newspaper archives for old articles about an entire family getting killed in an accident while on vacation outside of their home state. This scenario offers several advantages to a ghoster:

- Because the incident involved multiple deaths, there are multiple candidates (of different ages, and both sexes) for an identity that the ghoster can steal.
- Because the entire family died in the same incident, the dead person whose identity is chosen for ghosting is not likely to have any immediate relatives who are still alive and aware of his death.
- Because the family died outside their home state, their birth records and death records are archived in two different states and are unlikely to be cross-referenced. Also, if the deceased family's remains were not returned to their home community for burial, the staffers in the local records office are unlikely to be aware that the family is deceased and will not be suspicious when someone claiming to be a member of this family requests a copy of his birth certificate.
- Because the deaths occurred years ago, new requests for an old birth certificate are unlikely to stir anyone's memory of that individual's death."

Excellent resource and I think you may be onto something RE: Why did she stay in Texas? I suspect she did not stay in Texas full time at first or she had some kind of job that allowed her to go between Texas and another state on a regular basis. Maybe she was her real identity while in her home state and became LEK when in Texas? I'm not sure what she would have gotten out of that scenario, however. She could not use the illegally obtained SS# anywhere but where she was living in Texas or else the SS office would have a record of it.

If we go with the idea that she used the name LK but used her own birth date/SS# outside of Texas, I found a very interesting case of another LK who lived in Washington state and her husband actually had changed his last name to Kennedy from his given name--(he died in 1996 and his SS records listed his given last name and the name change). Weird thing is I can not find that LK's maiden name, her parents or anything else about her other than an address history and her date of birth from that address history. The latest date I can find her is 2004 in Washington. Then she seems to disappear. She had 3 kids in the early 80's but they would have been adults by 2004. Could she have taken out the student loan when her husband died in 1996 and then moved to Texas permanently in 2004 to marry Ruff? I can't get out of my head that one of her kids would notice she was missing by now, however if she were FLEK.

But I really do think it's possible FLEK didn't live in the Dallas area the whole time. Most her addresses were near the airport--making it easy for her to come for a weekend and visit Dallas from time to time to pick up her mail.

 

[HerStory]

As for her potential transience . . . how about as a carnie? Were there fairs or state fairs around these locations at this time?

 

[awillis0513]

I'm sure this will take longer than the given timeframe, but so it goes.


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