NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #1

[liz b.]

I find it interesting that she was attacked while running on the fire lane and her dad is an ex firefighter. Not in any way suspecting the dad but I had the thought that maybe someone wanted to hurt the dad by killing his daughter. There was so much rage ... an act of revenge?

Maybe I watched too much Criminal Minds. :blushing:

Okay, here's something to keep you up tonight : In the early morning hours of August 4th 2016 some 46 members of what are alleged to be members of the organized crime families in NYC were arrested in a "sweep" . Federal LE had been building a case for about 4 years, for such crimes as assault, extortion, fraud. And also arson.

I'm sure the lawyers for the people arrested tipped them a while ago. Please understand, I am NOT implying that K.s family was in any way involved in any criminal activity. They seem like good people to me. I'm of Italian heritage, and not into stereotypes. But, something nagged at me from the very beginning of this case. Hope I'm so wrong...jmo

 

[MadamReporter]

If she's an avid runner she probably has an app on her phone that tracks her route, speed, calories burned, etc. I hope the cops thought to look for that on her phone. It would tell them precisely where she was at what time.

 

[Ayashley]

Am I recalling wrong or wasn't there a woman not that long ago who went missing and her dad went looking for her and found her too?

 

[MLE]

An area with shanties, drug dealers, 10' tall grass, used condoms laying around, areas where homeless are afraid to go, etc.

It sounds like an unplanned crime of opportunity -- like a mouse running right into a snakepit.

 

[jjenny]

An area with shanties, drug dealers, 10' tall grass, used condoms laying around, areas where homeless are afraid to go, etc.

It sounds like an unplanned crime of opportunity -- like a mouse running right into a snakepit.

I also think it's was a crime of opportunity-perp saw her running alone. She used to run there with her father and didn't realize when her father wasn't there to protect her-it's a whole different story. If nobody was following her then likely the perp was already in the park-saw her running and decided to attack her.

 

[jjenny]

Okay, here's something to keep you up tonight : In the early morning hours of August 4th 2016 some 46 members of what are alleged to be members of the organized crime families in NYC were arrested in a "sweep" . Federal LE had been building a case for about 4 years, for such crimes as assault, extortion, fraud. And also arson.

I'm sure the lawyers for the people arrested tipped them a while ago. Please understand, I am NOT implying that K.s family was in any way involved in any criminal activity. They seem like good people to me. I'm of Italian heritage, and not into stereotypes. But, something nagged at me from the very beginning of this case. Hope I'm so wrong...jmo

How does this scenario fit in any way with organized crime? Mobsters aren't known for raping and killing women joggers and leaving their bodies in parks, as far as I can tell. She wasn't found in the bottom of the river with concrete shoes on. Someone involved in organized crime wouldn't leave DNA and body right there on the scene.

 

[liz b.]

How does this scenario fit in any way with organized crime? Mobsters aren't known for raping and killing women joggers and leaving their bodies in parks, as far as I can tell. She wasn't found in the bottom of the river with concrete shoes on. Someone involved in organized crime wouldn't leave DNA and body right there on the scene.

Could be that someone wanted revenge. I was actually replying to a poster who had speculated about this, that this may have been a revenge killing, that someone wanted revenge for something perhaps her father had done.. The timing of the arrests is , well, interesting let's say. And the arrests were for several cases of arson. As I said, it's jmo

 

[marble]

Thanks - wished they would say why they believe it was one suspect. He also said they said she never saw it coming.... I'm skeptical.... seems so Central Park similar with all the brutality as well as her fighting back valiantly.

um, you keep referencing the Central Park Rape as an example of a group brutally attacking and raping a jogger, but that turned out to be the work of *one* rapist- convicted serial rapist and murderer Matias Reyes- and not the group of teens originally convicted.

FYI

 

[liz b.]

I also think it's was a crime of opportunity-perp saw her running alone. She used to run there with her father and didn't realize when her father wasn't there to protect her-it's a whole different story. If nobody was following her then likely the perp was already in the park-saw her running and decided to attack her.

This was discussed upthread. Apparently this was not the first time she had gone running without her father, and not the first time she had gone running in the same area. Someone who raped and murdered her just on the spur of the moment, I tend to think they would have been caught by now, but jmo.

 

[liz b.]

An area with shanties, drug dealers, 10' tall grass, used condoms laying around, areas where homeless are afraid to go, etc.

It sounds like an unplanned crime of opportunity -- like a mouse running right into a snakepit.

It probably is not an optimal place to run. have not heard yet about any other joggers being spooked,or stalked while running there. K. ran there all the time.

 

[jjenny]

This was discussed upthread. Apparently this was not the first time she had gone running without her father, and not the first time she had gone running in the same area. Someone who raped and murdered her just on the spur of the moment, I tend to think they would have been caught by now, but jmo.

It's not that easy to find someone who might be a transient, as police think. This perp could be across the country by now.

 

[jjenny]

It probably is not an optimal place to run. have not heard yet about any other joggers being spooked,or stalked while running there. K. ran there all the time.

I don't think many joggers run there. It's not a good area.
“People don’t really run in there,” said Vincent Davino, 24, who grew up in Howard Beach. “I wouldn’t let my mom go in there because she’s a woman by herself. Everyone in Howard Beach knows: ‘You don’t go in the Weeds by yourself.’”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/nyregion/spring-creek-park-queens-karina-vetrano.html?_r=0

 

[Curious Me]

Bouncing this around in my thoughts. It's definitely subject to change every time I think about it.

A crime of opportunity by one predator driven more by getting a sexual release that includes an overpowering rape, rather than by the planned act of killing or infatuation of a certain victim. More spur of the moment and not that planned. They might've been looking for a jogger victim. But why did they choose that place? How transient is this person to know about that place? Job? Vehicle?

 

[Curious Me]

I'm thinking of a predator like John Gardner. Looked for his victims with sexual gratification in mind and hung around looking for an opportunity. He kidnapped, raped, and killed Amber Dubois on her way to school and he lived in that area then. Semi-transient because he ended up staying at his mother's in another area of the city, near the jogging trail and lake when he attacked and killed Chelsea King. He had tried to attack another jogger before in that area. Maybe Karina's killer was visiting or staying with someone in that area?

http://www.10news.com/news/five-years-later-the-disappearance-death-of-chelsea-king-022515

An investigation led to the arrest of 31-year-old convicted sex offender John Gardner. He eventually pleaded guilty on April 16, 2010, of killing and raping Chelsea and 14-year-old Escondido resident Amber Dubois. Amber had been reported missing a year earlier, and Gardner led authorities to her remains.

On May 14, 2010, Gardner, who previously had been convicted and served prison time for molesting a 13-year-old neighbor girl, was sentenced to two consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole for the murders of Amber and Chelsea...

He also was ordered to serve another 24 years due to prior convictions and received an additional 25 years to life for attacking a 22-year-old jogger in late December 2009, in the same park where Chelsea's murder would take place two months later. The woman managed to escape by elbowing Gardner in the face, breaking his nose.

 

[GutInstinct]

Could have been another runner. Just a thought.

 

[Momoffourboys]

FWIW Finding a used condom in NYC park/trail is really not uncommon.

I can remember several times I've seen them and other nasty things while walking/jogging/biking. JS.

 

[Lawdini01234]

http://abc7ny.com/news/nypd-queens-sex-assault-suspect-strikes-3-times-in-5-days/1390248/

From the info I've been able to gather this guy hasn't been caught and may have possibly struck again, grabbing a girls arm, on Thursday about 15 mins from the first 3 incidents.

This location is about 20 mins or so from Howard beach. However I am not sure if this matches up at all but wanted to share to get opinions.

 

[jjenny]

http://abc7ny.com/news/nypd-queens-sex-assault-suspect-strikes-3-times-in-5-days/1390248/

From the info I've been able to gather this guy hasn't been caught and may have possibly struck again, grabbing a girls arm, on Thursday about 15 mins from the first 3 incidents.

This location is about 20 mins or so from Howard beach. However I am not sure if this matches up at all but wanted to share to get opinions.

My guess is not the same person. All three victims got away from him so doesn't sound like he is at the same level as one who attacked Karina. But who knows?

 

[Theforeigner]

Todays news;
John Gotti, 23 (live in queens), grandson of famed mobster boss John Gotti, arrested on drug charges,
HE AND KARINA VETRANO MOVES IN THE SAME SOCIAL CIRCLES !:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-knew-sweetheart-murdered-Queens-jogger.html

Gotti also claimed during the interview he and Vetrano frequented the same social circles.
Vetrano was raped and savagely beaten before being murdered in Howard Beach, Queens on Tuesday, investigators said.
Gotti called her 'drop-dead gorgeous' and told the Daily News she was 'a sweetheart'.
He said Vetrano's death hit close too home, mentioning his mother, his sister and his girlfriend Eleonor Gabrielle, who was also arrested on Thursday.

 

[OldSteve]

Todays news;
John Gotti, 23 (live in queens), grandson of famed mobster boss John Gotti, arrested on drug charges,
HE AND KARINA VETRANO MOVES IN THE SAME SOCIAL CIRCLES !:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-knew-sweetheart-murdered-Queens-jogger.html

Gotti also claimed during the interview he and Vetrano frequented the same social circles.
Vetrano was raped and savagely beaten before being murdered in Howard Beach, Queens on Tuesday, investigators said.
Gotti called her 'drop-dead gorgeous' and told the Daily News she was 'a sweetheart'.
He said Vetrano's death hit close too home, mentioning his mother, his sister and his girlfriend Eleonor Gabrielle, who was also arrested on Thursday.

Don't think that means anything, other than perhaps going to same nite spots in the area...