OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #20

[Everyday Grace]

I don't think that little boy could ID anybody. We don't know if he saw anything or was asleep. But a child that young is by no means considered credible. They lack any ability to distinguish between fact and "fantasy," which means when asked they have a very high likelihood of commingling things they actually experienced with stuff that they believe they are supposed to respond. Kids that age operate by "faking it." That is, they are incredible little imitators of everything that goes on around them. That is how they learn. They are trying things. If it works for them they repeat it. If not, they go on to something else.

Michael Morton's then 3 year-old son's eyewitness account of his mother's murder was discounted for some of those reasons, among others.

(It didn't fit the now disbarred and totally disgraced prosecutor's notion of who committed the murder.)

Turned out that the child's account was accurate.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/cases/michael-morton/

Not saying that every 3 year-old can provide accurate information or that this particular child witnessed anything.

Just saying that automatically discounting information from a child based upon their age can hinder getting to the real facts of a case.

 

[Ray Pate]

Maybe I am making a mistake getting back into the discussions, but I can hardly contain myself from responding to
certain very enlighting posts..The reason I like WEBSLEUTH is because I read the discussions presented by what I
call the cream of the crop 0f residents living near or relatively close to this tragedy ..
My remarks about the female dogs need to be a little bit more organized..When I served as the *advertiser censored*'t administer
of our county commissioners, , I got to learn something about dog pounds. The commissioner's office controlled the
affairs of the pound...The policy was to keep female dogs in heat separate from the male group.If a citizen wanted
to adopt a dog, many files were detained on the citizen as well as the dog..Because I was head of the system,
I could go by and pick up a dog that I wanted and endured a minimum amount of questioning..
Now, to get to the meat of my posts..The killer is as smart or smarter than we are..He knows dogs as well as we do..
Just for the sake of this argument, Suspose he/she went by Pike Pet Pound, It is listed as an organization run by
volunteers,,went by on April 21st. and borrowed a dog in heat. Pike Pal Impound will have a record of that
transaction..The killer takes the dog to the first house on his list that have vicious dogs and on the street in
front of he house,he lets the female , in heat out-of his car. Nature has a way of the male dogs knowing the
presence of the female in heat. Even if there is a vicious female at the house, she will be alerted and all dogs
will head in the direction of the attractive female..The many instances that I have observed a number of dogs
going in a straight line up and down the woods,streets, etc. has been when they all are following a female dog
in heat.That female in heat will lead the pack for block or miles and the males will fight for the right to pass their DNA
on..Even if those vicious dogs are separated blocks apart, they will join the activity.. Now, the killer does not
care about the female in heat at this point, because He is finished with her. But, there is a problem, the record of
his action when he picked up the female in heat from Pike Pal Impound is still in existence. If this record has
been torn out of the book or destroyed,,, someway LE will have to depend on the volunteer staff for formal info.
JMO, I love you..

 

[rsd1200]

I have always wondered what transpired with the Gilley kids when they were young. They were raised by grandparents, and other than the obit, I believe they have never been mentioned. And if I remember correctly, they both live in the area.

HG has two brothers, a sister, and two half-brothers. All but one live in the immediate area. One half-brother lives close to Columbus. It's her brother CG, who is wanting custody of HG's, and HR's, baby, isn't it?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Maybe I am making a mistake getting back into the discussions, but I can hardly contain myself from responding to
certain very enlighting posts..The reason I like WEBSLEUTH is because I read the discussions presented by what I
call the cream of the crop 0f residents living near or relatively close to this tragedy ..
My remarks about the female dogs need to be a little bit more organized..When I served as the *advertiser censored*'t administer
of our county commissioners, , I got to learn something about dog pounds. The commissioner's office controlled the
affairs of the pound...The policy was to keep female dogs in heat separate from the male group.If a citizen wanted
to adopt a dog, many files were detained on the citizen as well as the dog..Because I was head of the system,
I could go by and pick up a dog that I wanted and endured a minimum amount of questioning..
Now, to get to the meat of my posts..The killer is as smart or smarter than we are..He knows dogs as well as we do..
Just for the sake of this argument, Suspose he/she went by Pike Pet Pound, It is listed as an organization run by
volunteers,,went by on April 21st. and borrowed a dog in heat. Pike Pal Impound will have a record of that
transaction..The killer takes the dog to the first house on his list that have vicious dogs and on the street in
front of he house,he lets the female , in heat out-of his car. Nature has a way of the male dogs knowing the
presence of the female in heat. Even if there is a vicious female at the house, she will be alerted and all dogs
will head in the direction of the attractive female..The many instances that I have observed a number of dogs
going in a straight line up and down the woods,streets, etc. has been when they all are following a female dog
in heat.That female in heat will lead the pack for block or miles and the males will fight for the right to pass their DNA
on..Even if those vicious dogs are separated blocks apart, they will join the activity.. Now, the killer does not
care about the female in heat at this point, because He is finished with her. But, there is a problem, the record of
his action when he picked up the female in heat from Pike Pal Impound is still in existence. If this record has
been torn out of the book or destroyed,,, someway LE will have to depend on the volunteer staff for formal info.
JMO, I love you..

I just have some questions on the dog thing.

1. What about the dogs that were tied up?

2. Would the female have returned to be taken to the other 2 properties that also had male dogs?

3. Did we hear anything about dogs looking like they'd been in a fight?

4. The Pike County pound loans out dogs in heat?

 

[Tillicum]

I just have some questions on the dog thing.

1. What about the dogs that were tied up?

2. Would the female have returned to be taken to the other 2 properties that also had male dogs?

3. Did we hear anything about dogs looking like they'd been in a fight?

4. The Pike County pound loans out dogs in heat?

IMO it would be close to impossible to just walk in and get a dog. They aren't there all day waiting for people to come in. Usually a person has to leave a message and wait for someone to get back to them to set up an appointment. It takes days and sometimes longer.

 

[rsd1200]

Maybe I am making a mistake getting back into the discussions, but I can hardly contain myself from responding to
certain very enlighting posts..The reason I like WEBSLEUTH is because I read the discussions presented by what I
call the cream of the crop 0f residents living near or relatively close to this tragedy ..
My remarks about the female dogs need to be a little bit more organized..When I served as the *advertiser censored*'t administer
of our county commissioners, , I got to learn something about dog pounds. The commissioner's office controlled the
affairs of the pound...The policy was to keep female dogs in heat separate from the male group.If a citizen wanted
to adopt a dog, many files were detained on the citizen as well as the dog..Because I was head of the system,
I could go by and pick up a dog that I wanted and endured a minimum amount of questioning..
Now, to get to the meat of my posts..The killer is as smart or smarter than we are..He knows dogs as well as we do..
Just for the sake of this argument, Suspose he/she went by Pike Pet Pound, It is listed as an organization run by
volunteers,,went by on April 21st. and borrowed a dog in heat. Pike Pal Impound will have a record of that
transaction..The killer takes the dog to the first house on his list that have vicious dogs and on the street in
front of he house,he lets the female , in heat out-of his car. Nature has a way of the male dogs knowing the
presence of the female in heat. Even if there is a vicious female at the house, she will be alerted and all dogs
will head in the direction of the attractive female..The many instances that I have observed a number of dogs
going in a straight line up and down the woods,streets, etc. has been when they all are following a female dog
in heat.That female in heat will lead the pack for block or miles and the males will fight for the right to pass their DNA
on..Even if those vicious dogs are separated blocks apart, they will join the activity.. Now, the killer does not
care about the female in heat at this point, because He is finished with her. But, there is a problem, the record of
his action when he picked up the female in heat from Pike Pal Impound is still in existence. If this record has
been torn out of the book or destroyed,,, someway LE will have to depend on the volunteer staff for formal info.
JMO, I love you..

IF this took place, again, there were dogs at three homes, they'd have to catch her, and put her in the car, each time, to go to the other homes. Also, it's not that easy to walk into most pounds and just pick out a dog in heat these days. They don't really want more dogs being bred. Even smaller community pounds will have you pay up front and then have the dog spayed before you are permitted to take them. Finally, why, if they did do this, would they get the dog from the local Pike County Pound? I'd at least go 40-50 miles or more away to get the dog, if they'd even let you have a dog while she was in heat. The whole adoption fee and process is to stop extra pups from happening and ending up in the pound. Plus, if I were going to murder someone, the last think I'm going to want is to have to deal with a strange dog, in heat, and re-catching her after they get done, and taking her to house three and four. I've told this story twice now, we had the worst dog on the road. He bit everyone up and down the road. Men, women, children, it did not matter. He was part pit, it was in the early 80s and most folks let their dogs run out in the country, on farms. We weren't allowed indoor pets. The health department had quarantined the little sucker so many times that they had him listed as viscous at the health dept. However, our home was robbed, THREE times, and he did not do a thing. People were scared of this dog. He'd go out of his way to bite people. We even walked in on the thieves! Nothing. Our dog was just hangin' out, like, no big deal. No female dogs in site. Just him, happy to see us home. Dogs are unpredictable. I've owned enough of them and trained enough of them that I'd bet they walked in there b/c at least one of them knew those dogs or they underestimated their dogs ferocity. Most dogs will not bite if a person knows anything at all about dealing with them. A lot of folks like to build up their dogs too, to get word out, just to keep honest people honest. The people that robbed our house? Most likely knew about our dog's reputation and carried a big ole stick.

 

[rsd1200]

IMO it would be close to impossible to just walk in and get a dog. They aren't there all day waiting for people to come in. Usually a person has to leave a message and wait for someone to get back to them to set up an appointment. It takes days and sometimes longer.

Ours is like that too. And shelters don't just loan dogs out. They will let you come during business hours and volunteer to walk them. I seriously doubt ours would let me get a dog in heat and take it home w/o it being spayed first either. You just about have to give your life history and promise your first born to adopt here. I've adopted from two of ours. They don't want them to come back and they don't want more pups being bred.

 

[Tillicum]

IF this took place, again, there were dogs at three homes, they'd have to catch her, and put her in the car, each time, to go to the other homes. Also, it's not that easy to walk into most pounds and just pick out a dog in heat these days. They don't really want more dogs being bred. Even smaller community pounds will have you pay up front and then have the dog spayed before you are permitted to take them. Finally, why, if they did do this, would they get the dog from the local Pike County Pound? I'd at least go 40-50 miles or more away to get the dog, if they'd even let you have a dog while she was in heat. The whole adoption fee and process is to stop extra pups from happening and ending up in the pound. Plus, if I were going to murder someone, the last think I'm going to want is to have to deal with a strange dog, in heat, and re-catching her after they get done, and taking her to house three and four. I've told this story twice now, we had the worst dog on the road. He bit everyone up and down the road. Men, women, children, it did not matter. He was part pit, it was in the early 80s and most folks let their dogs run out in the country, on farms. We weren't allowed indoor pets. The health department had quarantined the little sucker so many times that they had him listed as viscous at the health dept. However, our home was robbed, THREE times, and he did not do a thing. People were scared of this dog. He'd go out of his way to bite people. We even walked in on the thieves! Nothing. Our dog was just hangin' out, like, no big deal. No female dogs in site. Just him, happy to see us home. Dogs are unpredictable. I've owned enough of them and trained enough of them that I'd bet they walked in there b/c at least one of them knew those dogs or they underestimated their dogs ferocity. Most dogs will not bite if a person knows anything at all about dealing with them. A lot of folks like to build up their dogs too, to get word out, just to keep honest people honest. The people that robbed our house? Most likely knew about our dog's reputation and carried a big ole stick.

I'm sorry but I can't help it :giggle:

 

[CSIDreamer]

Ours is like that too. And shelters don't just loan dogs out. They will let you come during business hours and volunteer to walk them. I seriously doubt ours would let me get a dog in heat and take it home w/o it being spayed first either. You just about have to give your life history and promise your first born to adopt here. I've adopted from two of ours. They don't want them to come back and they don't want more pups being bred.

Pike charges $50 adoption fees for dogs.

 

[rsd1200]

IMO it would be close to impossible to just walk in and get a dog. They aren't there all day waiting for people to come in. Usually a person has to leave a message and wait for someone to get back to them to set up an appointment. It takes days and sometimes longer.

#2 would be a problem, She'd not have left to begin w/if she was in heat. She'd have stood there and let them fight over her. I don't know if you've ever witnessed dogs breeding before, but it's not a quiet, nor particularly "quick" process. So they'd be standing around for them to finish to take her to house 3 & then, 4. j.s. Poor dog. :facepalm:

 

[Ray Pate]

To my special friends::In my post, I did not say anything that is impossible..I told you of my experience..
I know that if I threw out the theory of relativity some would see that as an old fairy tale..You asked about the dogs
tied up... What danger can a dog tied to a chain be to a person , except make a sound..
Second question:: I posted that after you let the female dog out of your car, the hunt started, and the female in heat
would lead the vicious dogs, all of them at every house, away some distance.problem solved...Third question. Would
anybody check dogs as to their condition if he was on a mission..Fourth:: Does the pound loan out dogs in heat?
In my post I said there is paperwork involved.i never said a dog is loaned out. Last comment. In my post, I said
a person in authority could get a dog out of a pound with minimum questions. If we can, let us dismiss the whole
discussion about dogs.Thanks,

 

[glf]

I don't know about other places, but I do know about here, and if something is going on with the parent(s), that even the parents may not know about, they will drag everything out til the very end so the child won't go back with a parent(s) who are getting ready to be busted. The local LE works w/them.

Michael Morton's then 3 year-old son's eyewitness account of his mother's murder was discounted for some of those reasons, among others.

(It didn't fit the now disbarred and totally disgraced prosecutor's notion of who committed the murder.)

Turned out that the child's account was accurate.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/cases/michael-morton/

Not saying that every 3 year-old can provide accurate information or that this particular child witnessed anything.

Just saying that automatically discounting information from a child based upon their age can hinder getting to the real facts of a case.

There was really brutal murder in another state where a mom was killed and her baby was removed. One child, a seven year old was also killed. The 18 month old was not hurt. When the police finally showed up, the 18 month old told them that Daddy and a lady hours Mommy.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Maybe I am making a mistake getting back into the discussions, but I can hardly contain myself from responding to
certain very enlighting posts..The reason I like WEBSLEUTH is because I read the discussions presented by what I
call the cream of the crop 0f residents living near or relatively close to this tragedy ..
My remarks about the female dogs need to be a little bit more organized..When I served as the *advertiser censored*'t administer
of our county commissioners, , I got to learn something about dog pounds. The commissioner's office controlled the
affairs of the pound...The policy was to keep female dogs in heat separate from the male group.If a citizen wanted
to adopt a dog, many files were detained on the citizen as well as the dog..Because I was head of the system,
I could go by and pick up a dog that I wanted and endured a minimum amount of questioning..
Now, to get to the meat of my posts..The killer is as smart or smarter than we are..He knows dogs as well as we do..
Just for the sake of this argument, Suspose he/she went by Pike Pet Pound, It is listed as an organization run by
volunteers,,went by on April 21st. and borrowed a dog in heat. Pike Pal Impound will have a record of that
transaction..The killer takes the dog to the first house on his list that have vicious dogs and on the street in
front of he house,he lets the female , in heat out-of his car. Nature has a way of the male dogs knowing the
presence of the female in heat. Even if there is a vicious female at the house, she will be alerted and all dogs
will head in the direction of the attractive female..The many instances that I have observed a number of dogs
going in a straight line up and down the woods,streets, etc. has been when they all are following a female dog
in heat.That female in heat will lead the pack for block or miles and the males will fight for the right to pass their DNA
on..Even if those vicious dogs are separated blocks apart, they will join the activity.. Now, the killer does not
care about the female in heat at this point, because He is finished with her. But, there is a problem, the record of
his action when he picked up the female in heat from Pike Pal Impound is still in existence. If this record has
been torn out of the book or destroyed,,, someway LE will have to depend on the volunteer staff for formal info.
JMO, I love you..

To my special friends::In my post, I did not say anything that is impossible..I told you of my experience..
I know that if I threw out the theory of relativity some would see that as an old fairy tale..You asked about the dogs
tied up... What danger can a dog tied to a chain be to a person , except make a sound..
Second question:: I posted that after you let the female dog out of your car, the hunt started, and the female in heat
would lead the vicious dogs, all of them at every house, away some distance.problem solved...Third question. Would
anybody check dogs as to their condition if he was on a mission..Fourth:: Does the pound loan out dogs in heat?
In my post I said there is paperwork involved.i never said a dog is loaned out. Last comment. In my post, I said
a person in authority could get a dog out of a pound with minimum questions. If we can, let us dismiss the whole
discussion about dogs.Thanks,

Okay.

 

[CSIDreamer]

There was really brutal murder in another state where a mom was killed and her baby was removed. One child, a seven year old was also killed. The 18 month old was not hurt. When the police finally showed up, the 18 month old told them that Daddy and a lady hours Mommy.

You'd hope that baby would eventually forget that one. But, I'm one of those early memory people. Not to date myself here, but I was in a playpen when JFK was killed. I remember watching the funeral on a small television we had on a kitchen counter.

 

[Dudly]

I don't think that little boy could ID anybody. We don't know if he saw anything or was asleep. But a child that young is by no means considered credible. They lack any ability to distinguish between fact and "fantasy," which means when asked they have a very high likelihood of commingling things they actually experienced with stuff that they believe they are supposed to respond. Kids that age operate by "faking it." That is, they are incredible little imitators of everything that goes on around them. That is how they learn. They are trying things. If it works for them they repeat it. If not, they go on to something else.

http://www.earlybirdpaper.com/local-double-murder-case-to-air-sunday-night/
There was a case in Ohio where a small boy talked of a green dragon in his room the night his grand parents were murdered. They later found out the killer was wearing a green rain suit to keep blood spatter off of him.

 

[rsd1200]

To my special friends::In my post, I did not say anything that is impossible..I told you of my experience..
I know that if I threw out the theory of relativity some would see that as an old fairy tale..You asked about the dogs
tied up... What danger can a dog tied to a chain be to a person , except make a sound..
Second question:: I posted that after you let the female dog out of your car, the hunt started, and the female in heat
would lead the vicious dogs, all of them at every house, away some distance.problem solved...Third question. Would
anybody check dogs as to their condition if he was on a mission..Fourth:: Does the pound loan out dogs in heat?
In my post I said there is paperwork involved.i never said a dog is loaned out. Last comment. In my post, I said
a person in authority could get a dog out of a pound with minimum questions. If we can, let us dismiss the whole
discussion about dogs.Thanks,

BBM:
How do they get the dog back each time, to take her to the next location? She doesn't know that person from Adam, she's not going to just come when called like my dogs do, and she has male dogs all over her. They're going to have to go find her, deal with the males who are circling her, and try to get her back. If you want to get bit, mess with a male dog circling a female in heat. How do they even find her again? They have to go through this at each location? They just don't have that much time to go chasing after dogs all night, especially when said dogs are in the middle of breeding. They only have, in theory from 10:30 pm until 6:45-ish a.m. That's not a lot of time, and even less, when you throw running around after a dog in heat into the mix.

If a person in authority can get one out so easy, then why the need for paperwork, questions and money? So, when said dog is brought back to the pound, from being packed around to three different locations, and repeatedly bred for a six or eight hour period of time, and looking like she's been on a weekend drunk and rode hard and put up wet, then the pound folks are going to notice. They're also going to notice that she's had pups by now, and remember what person in authority got her out w/minimum questions, and would be having a little talk with him. The Rhoden and Manley family members are also going to notice if the dogs at the murder locations look to have been fighting. BJM especially noticed the dogs and did DS.

I don't know who brought up the discussion about the dogs again, but it keeps coming up. :gaah:

 

[Lindadanette]

Maybe I am making a mistake getting back into the discussions, but I can hardly contain myself from responding to
certain very enlighting posts..The reason I like WEBSLEUTH is because I read the discussions presented by what I
call the cream of the crop 0f residents living near or relatively close to this tragedy ..
My remarks about the female dogs need to be a little bit more organized..When I served as the *advertiser censored*'t administer
of our county commissioners, , I got to learn something about dog pounds. The commissioner's office controlled the
affairs of the pound...The policy was to keep female dogs in heat separate from the male group.If a citizen wanted
to adopt a dog, many files were detained on the citizen as well as the dog..Because I was head of the system,
I could go by and pick up a dog that I wanted and endured a minimum amount of questioning..
Now, to get to the meat of my posts..The killer is as smart or smarter than we are..He knows dogs as well as we do..
Just for the sake of this argument, Suspose he/she went by Pike Pet Pound, It is listed as an organization run by
volunteers,,went by on April 21st. and borrowed a dog in heat. Pike Pal Impound will have a record of that
transaction..The killer takes the dog to the first house on his list that have vicious dogs and on the street in
front of he house,he lets the female , in heat out-of his car. Nature has a way of the male dogs knowing the
presence of the female in heat. Even if there is a vicious female at the house, she will be alerted and all dogs
will head in the direction of the attractive female..The many instances that I have observed a number of dogs
going in a straight line up and down the woods,streets, etc. has been when they all are following a female dog
in heat.That female in heat will lead the pack for block or miles and the males will fight for the right to pass their DNA
on..Even if those vicious dogs are separated blocks apart, they will join the activity.. Now, the killer does not
care about the female in heat at this point, because He is finished with her. But, there is a problem, the record of
his action when he picked up the female in heat from Pike Pal Impound is still in existence. If this record has
been torn out of the book or destroyed,,, someway LE will have to depend on the volunteer staff for formal info.
JMO, I love you..

Someone who was familiar with the dogs, and who had canine training wouldn't need a female in heat - just a pocketful of "treats" and the ability to shush them with calm-assertive energy. The trainer would be Alpha to the 10th power with no apathy or empathy whatsoever. I still think it was one person with expert knowledge who thinks he's invincible and has the goods on his higher ups.

 

[rsd1200]

You'd hope that baby would eventually forget that one. But, I'm one of those early memory people. Not to date myself here, but I was in a playpen when JFK was killed. I remember watching the funeral on a small television we had on a kitchen counter.

I have some very early memories in that age range. Hopefully the child will forget this one.

 

[rsd1200]

Someone who was familiar with the dogs, and who had canine training wouldn't need a female in heat - just a pocketful of "treats" and the ability to shush them with calm-assertive energy. The trainer would be Alpha to the 10th power with no apathy or empathy whatsoever. I still think it was one person with expert knowledge who thinks he's invincible and has the goods on his higher ups.

I've had dogs, and worked with them, almost since I was able to walk and talk. I am a dog person (I love all animals but I'm just a dog person). For the most part, you can get around the majority of dogs.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I keep singing Ol' Red, in my head by Blake Shelton.