IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

[Fukiyama]

I've always thought Johnny's disappearance was connected to the nearby disappearances of two other young boys - Eugene Martin and Marc Allen. If that's the case, it would point to someone local.

Of course. That's why I don't think Heinrich is a good suspect.

I wonder if this case, specifically, contributed to someone like me (in Iowa) being taught stranger danger in school in the late 80's and early 90's.

Absolutely. I grew up in Iowa in the 80s and 90s. Johnny was not mentioned by name very often, but I can only assume he and the other DM boys were always on the minds of adults. I always feel like Johnny's case has gotten a raw deal as far as visibility. Though certainly his case is far better known than the other DM paperboys.

 

[AmyPond]

Just from the little I've read so far, it seems like people don't take Noreen seriously at all. So I think maybe that's why the case doesn't has as much visibility as other missing kid cases out there.

 

[Ozoner]

So now I'm questioning whether Heinrich could have been involved with Johnny's abduction. Considering him being guilty of little Jacob Wetterling. Very similar MO. And It wasn't that far of a drive, and sexual predators do drive outside of their home territories to seek out their victims. It's just a possibility. IMO

Extremely unlikely. Offenders usually escalate. DH committed a non-homicidal sexual assault not long before his abduction of Wetterling, which makes me think Wetterling was his first murder.

 

[Tulessa]

[video=youtube;AY-F5JoHoho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY-F5JoHoho[/video]

 

[Fukiyama]

Just from the little I've read so far, it seems like people don't take Noreen seriously at all. So I think maybe that's why the case doesn't has as much visibility as other missing kid cases out there.

I didn't want to mention Noreen since she is the Mother, but yeah, Noreen is definitely not Patty Wetterling. I empathize with her tragedy, but she fell down the rabbit hole. With all the weirdness that surrounds the Gosch case, it was probably inevitable.

But then again, it may all be true and the egg's on all the disbelievers. Like I said, so much weirdness.

 

[Cappuccino]

Just from the little I've read so far, it seems like people don't take Noreen seriously at all. So I think maybe that's why the case doesn't has as much visibility as other missing kid cases out there.

That may be deliberate. I hate to ask this, but - if someone went missing and one of their nearest relatives kept insisting they'd seen them alive and well after they went missing, who would you suspect? If it wasn't for the disappearances of Eugene Martin and Marc Allen, I would be looking askance at Noreen.

 

[VT802]

Here is an update concerning the composite now associated with both the Gosch and Garecht cases:

This info has been passed on to the Hayward investigator in charge of the Garecht case. There has been an alleged identification of the man in the composite based on a tipster involved with the Gosch case including a name. I have researched this man and he was in Omaha, NE when Johnny was kidnapped in 1982 and was in CA when Michaela was kidnapped in 1988. He also had a vehicle that seems to match the car seen in the Garecht kidnapping.

That being said, he also has no known criminal record or any indication of being a predator. On the surface, he seems to be just an average guy living a middle-class suburban life. Something may lie underneath that surface, but I have yet to find it.

I have not heard anything back from Hayward LE - probably because there was a new investigator assigned to the case recently and he is trying to clear several filing cabinets worth of tips that have remained unchecked for decades. This tip was probably just tossed into that same pile to be looked at once earlier tips have been exhausted.

Meanwhile, I continue to try to follow this lead. There are three men who have first-hand knowledge of this case (or, at least, claim to): Paul Bonacci, Jimmy Gibson and David Shurter. Paul supplied the first name for the composite, David supplied the last name given to LE and Jimmy has supplied a different last name. I have had varying degrees of contact with all three men and am attempting to verify and reconcile the conflicting information.

By the way: both Paul and Jimmy claim to have been in regular and recent contact with a very-much-alive Johnny Gosch. If this is true, then Johnny may ultimately be the one to solve his own disappearance.

- What is the source to this claim that Paul and Jimmy have admitted to regular and recent contact with Johnny? One would think that if they are out running around claiming this stuff that it would get a greater eye cast at it! Please inform us as to the source of these claims and what makes the source credible!! Thanks


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[Chicken Hawk]

I have nothing new to add other than this is the case that bought me to Websleuths. Once here I read and followed Anna Waters, Sharon Marshall and Jacob Wetterling (among others), thought none of them would ever be solved. Now Sharon and Jacob both have been "solved". I'm hoping Anna and Johnny's stories also get told whatever the outcome may be.

I have read Franklin Files but not seen the documentary. If it's on Netflix then I will check it out this weekend. I have read all the posts on Websleuths about him and just hope that the answers are found out some day.

 

[Cappuccino]

- What is the source to this claim that Paul and Jimmy have admitted to regular and recent contact with Johnny? One would think that if they are out running around claiming this stuff that it would get a greater eye cast at it! Please inform us as to the source of these claims and what makes the source credible!! Thanks


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Those claims have no credibility, and if they did this thread would no longer be in the Missing section. If these claims from Noreen and others were true that would mean Johnny Gosch is no longer a missing person but an adult who doesn't want to be found, which means case closed.

Of course the people claiming to have met Johnny as an adult have no credibility at all, including sadly, Johnny's mother.

 

[Jbrown324320]

posted on the Jacob Wetterling thread 11/24/15:

thref23
Registered User
Join Date:Sep 2004Posts:44



Here is a weird potential link between Danny Heinrich & the Johnny Gosch / Eugene Martin cases:

Johnny Gosch's mother hired a private investigator named Sam Soda. If I understand right, she claimed that he had provided her with advanced notice of the Eugene Martin abduction (which was supposed to be evidence of a child sex ring which he would have been investigating). Separately, a pedophile and self-proclaimed 'CIA asset' (Paul Bishop) contacted Johnny's mother claiming knowledge of a CIA acknowledged pedophile ring which had been responsible for Johnny's abduction. He also claimed that Sam Soda was involved with the Eugene Martin abduction.

I am not sure that I can really wrap my head around that, but my point leads to this: I decided to do a quick search to see if this mysterious Sam Soda figure had any known ties to Minnesota. The first thing I came across, was this WS post from 2014, which included the following tidbit:


Quote Originally Posted by shergal

"An official credible source says that Sam Soda was in St. Cloud (working with Ruan Trucking at Fingerhut) the weekend Jacob was abducted.
Now, if I am not mistaken, Danny Heinrich worked for Fingerhut, in St. Cloud, at or around the time of the Jacob Wetterling abduction. "

Even if verified, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I thought it was a strange coincidence worth pointing out.

 

[Jbrown324320]

Sometimes we can find some truth in what seems to be absurdity. Credibility is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Cappuccino]

posted on the Jacob Wetterling thread 11/24/15:

thref23
Registered User
Join Date:Sep 2004Posts:44



Here is a weird potential link between Danny Heinrich & the Johnny Gosch / Eugene Martin cases:

Johnny Gosch's mother hired a private investigator named Sam Soda. If I understand right, she claimed that he had provided her with advanced notice of the Eugene Martin abduction (which was supposed to be evidence of a child sex ring which he would have been investigating). Separately, a pedophile and self-proclaimed 'CIA asset' (Paul Bishop) contacted Johnny's mother claiming knowledge of a CIA acknowledged pedophile ring which had been responsible for Johnny's abduction. He also claimed that Sam Soda was involved with the Eugene Martin abduction.

I am not sure that I can really wrap my head around that, but my point leads to this: I decided to do a quick search to see if this mysterious Sam Soda figure had any known ties to Minnesota. The first thing I came across, was this WS post from 2014, which included the following tidbit:


Quote Originally Posted by shergal

"An official credible source says that Sam Soda was in St. Cloud (working with Ruan Trucking at Fingerhut) the weekend Jacob was abducted.
Now, if I am not mistaken, Danny Heinrich worked for Fingerhut, in St. Cloud, at or around the time of the Jacob Wetterling abduction. "

Even if verified, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I thought it was a strange coincidence worth pointing out.

Who is this official credible source?

 

[VT802]

posted on the Jacob Wetterling thread 11/24/15:

thref23
Registered User
Join Date:Sep 2004Posts:44



Here is a weird potential link between Danny Heinrich & the Johnny Gosch / Eugene Martin cases:

Johnny Gosch's mother hired a private investigator named Sam Soda. If I understand right, she claimed that he had provided her with advanced notice of the Eugene Martin abduction (which was supposed to be evidence of a child sex ring which he would have been investigating). Separately, a pedophile and self-proclaimed 'CIA asset' (Paul Bishop) contacted Johnny's mother claiming knowledge of a CIA acknowledged pedophile ring which had been responsible for Johnny's abduction. He also claimed that Sam Soda was involved with the Eugene Martin abduction.

I am not sure that I can really wrap my head around that, but my point leads to this: I decided to do a quick search to see if this mysterious Sam Soda figure had any known ties to Minnesota. The first thing I came across, was this WS post from 2014, which included the following tidbit:


Quote Originally Posted by shergal

"An official credible source says that Sam Soda was in St. Cloud (working with Ruan Trucking at Fingerhut) the weekend Jacob was abducted.
Now, if I am not mistaken, Danny Heinrich worked for Fingerhut, in St. Cloud, at or around the time of the Jacob Wetterling abduction. "

Even if verified, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I thought it was a strange coincidence worth pointing out.

Heindrick was and is officially now a self proclaimed stalker of young children and he was known by a few children in Jacobs area to have followed and attempted to kidnap a few of them. These accounts of Hiendricks past were totally overlooked in the initial investigation of Jacobs disappearance and if the local and federal law enforcement agents had done a better job this case (Jacobs) would have been solved years ago. These cases were not connected at all and if they were it had nothing to do with men in blk running around carting small children to adult customers. This Hiendricks guy was seriously demented and had a long history within his community of terrorizing small children but these incidences were overlooked and unreported by his would be victims. The connection if any to Johnny G. That this case has (if any) is that he is likely a victim of the same type of attack as Jacob was.

Heindricks was definitely not trying to do anything along the lines of transporting or trading Jacob, in his court testimony he admitted to stealing a bobcat, bury the body and eventually returning to his home to avoid being seen in the search perimeter.

There is a great new podcast which covers the Jacob W. Story called "IN THE DARK" and it points out a bunch of the details that would have been no brainer a today but which went overlooked back then. As arm chair investigators in a very small world we need to remember that the world is in fact a shrinking map and that there are connections between every human on the planet within just a few relations or people! This said, I can't see any valid relation between the two cases, unless the guy did allot of traveling and he struck in an extended geographic area, unlikely due to the interaction he had close to his home during that time and due to the fact that he primarily tried to victimize his prey close to home!!



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[VT802]

Just from the little I've read so far, it seems like people don't take Noreen seriously at all. So I think maybe that's why the case doesn't has as much visibility as other missing kid cases out there.

One possibility that no one is suggesting and that could actually tie into the reports of a child sex ring that reached the presidential cabinet is the potential of a miss information campaign or Cointel pro type operation deployed against JG's mom. If she truly was visited and it would seem that she is in fact telling the truth, then it was likely someone either messing around to get a sick laugh which is more common then one might think or it was a dis information campaign run to get NG out of the limelight and cast into a shadow of doubt.

There are many characters whom would have benefited from embarking on a dos information campaign against Goshe mom and that list spans from the police chief whom was catching all types of hell for dropping the ball in the nations first "nationally broadcasted child abduction" whom later lost his job, to the many folks whom came up as potentially involved in child pedophile networks,organized under aged sex trade and presidential scandals! Once this story started to knock on the doors at the Oval Office I'd be willing to bet that there were at least a few alphabet agencies that started to at least think of ways in which they could discredit or disenfranchise JG's mother and what better way then to have her get a KuKu cray cray visit from her adult son. Also lending to the notion that this whole thing has COINTEL written all over it, is the fact that this visit unfolded just a few short weeks before NG was to make an appearance on national television which was (without a cray cray narrative) a clear and direct threat to national security and the publics view of its national leaders during that time. The Bushes and the Regans were both still very much a part of the workings within the free world when NG. Was booked to appear on the Phil Donahue show which was viewed by every house wife and retired female on the planet in the 1980's and early 90's.

It would be interesting to do a few FOIA's to look deeper into how and if the Donahue show was connected either by directive or by official meetings with any Alphabet or DOD/J/INTEL agencies.

Another possibility is that the show had a stake in creating such a story, knowing that the story would come out not only in court a few days prior to the shooting of the show but also live on air during the shooting! Hollywood and the TV world used to be above nothing in order to stir ratings and you can ask the current employees and directors about the stunts that these guys used to employ!

^^just some thoughts and possible causes for this crazy portion of the story^^


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[VT802]

Extremely unlikely. Offenders usually escalate. DH committed a non-homicidal sexual assault not long before his abduction of Wetterling, which makes me think Wetterling was his first murder.

He may be a good candidate because of information obtained by a podcaster from PRX who has done an excellent job following up on this case, it turns out that the initial investigation of JW missed a whole slew of locals and even some reports that were widely known within their geographic area but never taken seriously by local law enforcement at the time, all of which put a blue ford or blue vehicle in the areas, sometimes the children reporting were picked up, grabbed or "bear hugged" and then released because Heindricks got scared, he even told a number of these young boys that they were lucky he had gotten scared or that they were lucky their parents had shown up, Ext. these reports have only made the possibility that this guy was responsible for other children's demises more likely but because he has already struck and deal and will only face 20 years in jail because of that negotiation he will likely never speak about these instances or more serious ones from his past. I do think it's important to look at him as a potential cause or candidate in these cases, he was known to have attempted to kidnap and attack 3 other children within a 50 mile circle from where he lived at the time and even traveled further then this on a few occasions. These reports were totally overlooked at the time of JW disappearance


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[Cappuccino]

Here's another explanation for the crazy parts of this story - its been made up by hoaxters and crazy people. If there's any paedophile ring supplying children to powerful men in the White House they're not kidnapping children who will quickly be missed and searched for to do it. Any such ring would find it far safer to use children who won't be missed - runaways, throwaways, children trafficked in from other countries. There are more than enough of those that nobody needs to risk exposure by kidnapping paper boys whose parents will call the police and raise a search party.

 

[VT802]

Hey, a good assumption but we must always remind ourselves that throughout history, the truth is much much much stranger then fiction and in many cases throughout time the presumed reasonable explanation is absolutely the false narrative. A presumption of likelihood is a key contribution to the falsely convicted, it's the key factor in many dormant and unsolved cases and it's the biggest reason why folks miss little things that point to bigger answers!

I was just throwing a few of the more outside possibilities options out there because as far fetched as the notions I mentioned may seem, they are far stronger in likelihood then the possibility that there actually is some network of child thieves pushing little ones to the White House. The use of Cointel for far less impacting the United States and the White House can be referenced and documented since the 1960's when the alphabet agencies unrolled that program for wide use in stateside ops & investigations!


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[VT802]

Here's another explanation for the crazy parts of this story - its been made up by hoaxters and crazy people. If there's any paedophile ring supplying children to powerful men in the White House they're not kidnapping children who will quickly be missed and searched for to do it. Any such ring would find it far safer to use children who won't be missed - runaways, throwaways, children trafficked in from other countries. There are more than enough of those that nobody needs to risk exposure by kidnapping paper boys whose parents will call the police and raise a search party.

I also would suggest or remind you that bringing foreigners into the United States may seem like an easy deal but there are few folks who could actually do it in a way which would prove profitable with 99 percent of those coming here today either hiking hundreds of miles to enter illegally or going through a very carefully crafted conspiracy to forge official papers to gain access to the land of Liberty!!



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[Cappuccino]

I'm all for keeping an open mind, but let's not be so open minded our brains fall out. The Franklin conspiracy has already been thoroughly debunked by investigative journalists from the Washington Post, who described it as a carefully crafted hoax. So unless someone has got some new evidence which points towards the Men in Black maybe it would be best to discuss things like the car seen close to the abduction site, or look for similarities with the Eugene Martin case.

That's nowhere near as glamorous as powerful men running global conspiracies but I'm afraid truth isn't always as glamorous as fiction.

 

[Cappuccino]

I also would suggest or remind you that bringing foreigners into the United States may seem like an easy deal but there are few folks who could actually do it in a way which would prove profitable with 99 percent of those coming here today either hiking hundreds of miles to enter illegally or going through a very carefully crafted conspiracy to forge official papers to gain access to the land of Liberty!!



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Or get a tourist visa and fly in on a plane like everyone else.