JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

[ninij9]

The Jonbenet Ramsey case is especially interesting on many fronts:
1. Creating a compelling cogent theory of “what actually happened” ( and secondarily, “who did it?” }
2. Taking the Jonbenet Ramsey autopsy report and any available photos as baseline data, then using “expert” opinions from the two opposing camps,i.e. HEAD BLOW FIRST (HBF) vs STRANGULATION FIRST (SF)
A. Cyril Wecht, Dr. Michael Doberson, Adams County Coroner [Strangulation first, Head Blow second theorists]
B. Werner Spitz, Macomb County, MI Medical Examiner, Henry Lee, Ronald Wright, MD, director of the forensic pathology department at the University of Miami School of Medicine, Kerry Brega, chief neurologist at Denver Health Medical Center [Head Blow first, strangulation, second theorists}
3. Reason for and the prosecution of garotte, knot, cord apparatus as part of asphyxiation exercise.
4. Blunt penetration of vagina
5. Paired point skin wounds on low back and right lateral head.
6. Assorted abrasions, ecchymosis, petechiae on the head, neck, face, back, and arms
7. DNA residue on skin and undergarment
8. JBR body pre/post mortem artefacts; cord, makeshift garotte, blanket, pubic hair, blanket particulate matter, footprint, palm print
And for matters of brevity, ignoring for the time being the myriad other issues that are germane to the proper thorough understanding of this unique crime, i.e., ransom note, 911 call, Ramsey behavior, tactics, downstairs artifacts/findings, political social dynamics between Boulder Police, Office of District Attorney, social standing /stratification in Boulder/ analysis of power of City Departments, commercial /professional class, Boulder “culture” For example, “ Who Governs Boulder? And How is city community power exercised? Bureaucratic rivalry and conflict. Media practices and influence on crime analysis and adjudication.
Regarding the main question at hand:
I was initially drawn to JBR injuries found at the crime scene and confirmed at autopsy.
In particular I was drawn into this case in the following:
A 6 year old female is found dead in her home.
Attached to her neck was a partially disassembled “garotte apparatus” consisting of a short wooden stick serving as the fulcrum of a ligature designed to apply sufficient constriction pressure to the mid neck which in turn would eventually occlude the trachea thereby inducing death by asphyxia, anoxic brain death.
Assorted varying shapes of abrasions, contusions, ecchymosis, on neck face hands and torso
Absence of lacerations or penetrating injuries
Striking lack of blood – on body, clothes, coverings, blood splatter in basement, hallway, Wine Room, Train Room, stairs, kitchen
Subsequent discovery of large diastastatic depressed right sided skull fracture from frontal bone to occipital bone.i
I am a practicing neuroradiologist with 30 years of experience.
I was recently drawn into this case because of the nature of injuries she sustained; namely a severe head wound, and strangulation neck injury
Consequently, the puzzles arising in this case motivated a deeper inquiry into what was behind this crime.
First areas of interest:
What were the consequences of this large complex skull fracture?
My reading of the autopsy findings maybe faulty; but I found it more than curious that
Striking little scalp swelling due either to hemorrhage or traumatic edema at or around the skull fracture site. Blunt trauma of a force required to cause a lengyhy linea frature combined with a sizeable depressed skull fracture would, I would predict, cause massive scalp swelling. Kerry Brega’s (neurologist) comment was perplexing and perhaps highly misleading.
The lack of SIGNIFICANT brain swelling, gyral flattening, deep white matter edema throughout the entire right cerebral hemisphere particularly near the site of depressed parietal skull fracture was dumbfounding.
The relative paucity of blood volume designated “subarachnoid hemorrhage, subdural hemorrhage, number and distribution of cortical petechial hemorrhages, the absence of any trace of intra-parenchymal hemorrhage at or near site of depressed parietal skull fracture made absolutely NO SENSE to me. (Note: as a neuroradiologist I analyze both blunt as well as penetrating trauma to brain and skull as a livelihood and have examined thousands such cases) Unlike Brega I have NEVER seen a skull with this sort of fracture constellation WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT soft tissue injury {hemorrhage/edema} to the scalp ( a highly vascular integument that reacts with hemorrhage and swelling “goose-egg” after the slightest of head bump, assault with a fist, rock, or stick, fender-bender auto accident, not to mention intentional blunt/ penetrating instrument assault with intent to injure.

I have tried in vain to find autopsy photos of scalp related to areas around the fracture – meaning photos of head after hair shaved off, close up photos of abrasions contusions lacerations at the site blunt instrument blow(assumed to be the MAG C flashlight).
Spitz recently opined that a massive blow to the head with a MAG flashlight would NOT necessarily cause any scalp injury that would have bleed. Initially, I highly doubt the accuracy of this claim. And will believe it after seeing a confirmed case similar in every way to the Ramsey case.
OR simulating the conditions of this wound on a living subject {prohibited on ethical grounds even if choosing an animal – pig, monkey etc)
If the MAG flashlight leading edge did not lacerate, rent the overlying dermis, sufficient force is delivered to underlying soft tissue layers as to incite intense inflammatory changes – hemorrhage and edema. The underlying fracture of 2 layers of bone would set up hemorrhage – subgaleal hemorrhage, as well as epidural, and or Subdural hemorrhage, which depending on a number of physiological factors could be maybe “mild” but also “marked” .

Without delving into the neuropatholigic findings in the settings of high energy blunt trauma, I remain unable to square the theory of “head injury first”, with its ancillary ‘staged” strangulation second.

I am open to a coherent theory of why head blow first, strangulation second- but I would wish to inspect autopsy photos of head.
My interest includes photos of the following:

head shaved of all hair,
head with scalp flap pealed back over fracture site,
cut sections of injured scalp, including microscopy views,
head with scalp removed,
head with skull cap removed,
gross brain in all views,
view of intracranial vault after brain, meninges, brain stem removed,
then cut brain views- including entire right hemisphere – AP, lateral, view from top and view from bottom,
then coronal views of brain slabs displayed in order from frontal lobe to occipital lobe.

If someone in this forum can provide commentary germane to the questions I pose above, I welcome a response. If someone could direct me to a website showing JBR autopsy photos that necessarily include photos of the skull, brain,and cut brain specimens, I would be deeply grateful.

Thanks
Zeno49

Awesome thought provoking post. I am never, ever involved in this forum/ case because it would consume me. Can I ask, in your professional opinion, would the conditions found here (ie lack of blood, lack of lacerations etc) be conducive to this injury either being post mortem, or very near time of death?
TIA.



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[otg]

Doctor Geradts:

I'm very pleased that you've taken an interest in this case. I've referred to your forensics site often over the years and followed many of the links you provided. I hope I can answer at least a few of your questions.

The Jonbenet Ramsey case is especially interesting on many fronts:
1. Creating a compelling cogent theory of “what actually happened” ( and secondarily, “who did it?” }
2. Taking the Jonbenet Ramsey autopsy report and any available photos as baseline data, then using “expert” opinions from the two opposing camps,i.e. HEAD BLOW FIRST (HBF) vs STRANGULATION FIRST (SF)
A. Cyril Wecht, Dr. Michael Doberson, Adams County Coroner [Strangulation first, Head Blow second theorists]
B. Werner Spitz, Macomb County, MI Medical Examiner, Henry Lee, Ronald Wright, MD, director of the forensic pathology department at the University of Miami School of Medicine, Kerry Brega, chief neurologist at Denver Health Medical Center [Head Blow first, strangulation, second theorists}
3. Reason for and the prosecution of garotte, knot, cord apparatus as part of asphyxiation exercise.
4. Blunt penetration of vagina
5. Paired point skin wounds on low back and right lateral head.
6. Assorted abrasions, ecchymosis, petechiae on the head, neck, face, back, and arms
7. DNA residue on skin and undergarment
8. JBR body pre/post mortem artefacts; cord, makeshift garotte, blanket, pubic hair, blanket particulate matter, footprint, palm print

On #8, some of these items may indeed be artefacts. The pubic hair that has often been referred to in published accounts has also been dismissed (in published accounts) as having been identified as an axillary or ancillary hair (I’ve seen both descriptions and I think there may be some confusion by those who have reported it) belonging to Patsy Ramsey. (This has all been reported from “leaked” information.)

The footprint is unable to be dated, and may be unrelated to the crime. It has been determined though that Burke Ramsey did indeed own a pair of Hi-tec brand boots/shoes which the family has continued to deny.

The palm print has been identified as belonging to Melinda Ramsey (John’s older daughter from a previous marriage) and has been confirmed as unrelated to the crime.

And for matters of brevity, ignoring for the time being the myriad other issues that are germane to the proper thorough understanding of this unique crime, i.e., ransom note, 911 call, Ramsey behavior, tactics, downstairs artifacts/findings, political social dynamics between Boulder Police, Office of District Attorney, social standing /stratification in Boulder/ analysis of power of City Departments, commercial /professional class, Boulder “culture” For example, “ Who Governs Boulder? And How is city community power exercised? Bureaucratic rivalry and conflict. Media practices and influence on crime analysis and adjudication.
Regarding the main question at hand:
I was initially drawn to JBR injuries found at the crime scene and confirmed at autopsy.
In particular I was drawn into this case in the following:
A 6 year old female is found dead in her home.
Attached to her neck was a partially disassembled “garotte apparatus” consisting of a short wooden stick serving as the fulcrum of a ligature designed to apply sufficient constriction pressure to the mid neck which in turn would eventually occlude the trachea thereby inducing death by asphyxia, anoxic brain death.

If I could suggest, I think it is probable that the so-called “garrote” as found by the medical examiner (ME) did not function as implied. If you’ve seen some of the photos, you’ll notice that her hair is entwined in both the knot at her neck and in the wrappings around the broken paintbrush which is assumed by many as having been used as a handle on the free end of the ligature.

However, by the autopsy findings, she was obviously strangled. My question to you would be this: If the stick handle was added after she was otherwise strangled, how do you think she was actually strangled? (I will gladly give you my opinion, but would rather not let it influence your opinion.)

Assorted varying shapes of abrasions, contusions, ecchymosis, on neck face hands and torso
Absence of lacerations or penetrating injuries
Striking lack of blood – on body, clothes, coverings, blood splatter in basement, hallway, Wine Room, Train Room, stairs, kitchen
Subsequent discovery of large diastastatic depressed right sided skull fracture from frontal bone to occipital bone.i
I am a practicing neuroradiologist with 30 years of experience.
I was recently drawn into this case because of the nature of injuries she sustained; namely a severe head wound, and strangulation neck injury
Consequently, the puzzles arising in this case motivated a deeper inquiry into what was behind this crime.
First areas of interest:
What were the consequences of this large complex skull fracture?
My reading of the autopsy findings maybe faulty; but I found it more than curious that
Striking little scalp swelling due either to hemorrhage or traumatic edema at or around the skull fracture site. Blunt trauma of a force required to cause a lengyhy linea frature combined with a sizeable depressed skull fracture would, I would predict, cause massive scalp swelling. Kerry Brega’s (neurologist) comment was perplexing and perhaps highly misleading.

I agree with you that Brega’s comment (while the circumstances stated might be possible) is perplexing and at best misleading. But I don’t know the exact context in which the comment was made. For reference, here is the quote that has been attributed to Dr. Brega:

Kerry Brega, chief neurologist at Denver Health Medical Center, said it is not uncommon for people with skull fractures to not have any bleeding. "We see a lot of people with skull fractures without bleeds in the brain, and they didn't all get strangled on the way in," she said. "So it is actually possible to get a skull fracture without getting an underlying bleed in the brain."
​

The lack of SIGNIFICANT brain swelling, gyral flattening, deep white matter edema throughout the entire right cerebral hemisphere particularly near the site of depressed parietal skull fracture was dumbfounding.

We have contradictory information available about the amount of cerebral edema. You’ve read the autopsy report, so you know that the ME only noted “normal overall architecture, mild narrowing of the sulci and flattening of the gyri, and no inflammation.” But the brain weighed 1450 grams (about 15 to 20/25% over normal for a 6 year old female figured by age group or by ratio of brain to body weight). He did not state whether the swelling was focal or diffuse, half-brain or whole. Some have stated that the lack of massive edema is an indication that the strangulation occurred shortly after the head blow. Others have said that the large amount of swelling indicates (along with other factors) that the strangulation happened as long as 45 to 120 minutes after the head blow.

The relative paucity of blood volume designated “subarachnoid hemorrhage, subdural hemorrhage, number and distribution of cortical petechial hemorrhages, the absence of any trace of intra-parenchymal hemorrhage at or near site of depressed parietal skull fracture made absolutely NO SENSE to me. (Note: as a neuroradiologist I analyze both blunt as well as penetrating trauma to brain and skull as a livelihood and have examined thousands such cases) Unlike Brega I have NEVER seen a skull with this sort of fracture constellation WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT soft tissue injury {hemorrhage/edema} to the scalp ( a highly vascular integument that reacts with hemorrhage and swelling “goose-egg” after the slightest of head bump, assault with a fist, rock, or stick, fender-bender auto accident, not to mention intentional blunt/ penetrating instrument assault with intent to injure.

The ME did not see any damage to the exterior of the scalp before it was cut and reflected at which time he discovered the underlying trauma. I don’t know though whether he thought to even look for it, since he assumed the death to be caused simply by the ligature around her neck, and at that time had no reason to closely examine the exterior of the scalp.

As to the amount of blood between the scalp and the brain, I would suggest the strangulation might have had a significant effect, especially if the amount of force was enough to occlude both the carotid arteries and the jugular veins, thus restricting blood flow to and from the brain. Also, the length of time between the two insults would most likely be a contributing factor to the amount of cerebral hemorrhage.

I have tried in vain to find autopsy photos of scalp related to areas around the fracture – meaning photos of head after hair shaved off, close up photos of abrasions contusions lacerations at the site blunt instrument blow(assumed to be the MAG C flashlight).
Spitz recently opined that a massive blow to the head with a MAG flashlight would NOT necessarily cause any scalp injury that would have bleed. Initially, I highly doubt the accuracy of this claim. And will believe it after seeing a confirmed case similar in every way to the Ramsey case.
OR simulating the conditions of this wound on a living subject {prohibited on ethical grounds even if choosing an animal – pig, monkey etc)
If the MAG flashlight leading edge did not lacerate, rent the overlying dermis, sufficient force is delivered to underlying soft tissue layers as to incite intense inflammatory changes – hemorrhage and edema. The underlying fracture of 2 layers of bone would set up hemorrhage – subgaleal hemorrhage, as well as epidural, and or Subdural hemorrhage, which depending on a number of physiological factors could be maybe “mild” but also “marked” .

The official status of this case is still “open.” The only autopsy photos that have been made public were acquired illegally (perpetrators were prosecuted) or released by one of the former investigators who left the district attorney’s office to work for the Ramsey family.

Her hair was not shaved off prior to scalp reflection. Instead it was parted for the coronal incision. (Possibly a contributing factor in not initially seeing any external scalp trauma.)

I’ll hold my tongue about my opinion of Spitz. I will say though that his idea of the Maglite causing the head wound is ridiculous on so many levels, I don’t have time to explain. Unfortunately, too many investigators have taken his opinion as gospel and, I’m afraid it has thrown off some of the factors in their theories of what happened.

I do believe though that knowing the actual shape of the bludgeon accounts for the lack of any scalp lacerations as well as the shape of the depressed fracture (the photo of the removed skullcap shows that it isn’t rectangular). It also explains the resulting linear fracture emanating from it in opposite directions.

Without delving into the neuropatholigic findings in the settings of high energy blunt trauma, I remain unable to square the theory of “head injury first”, with its ancillary ‘staged” strangulation second.

I understand what you’re saying, and I think what might be confusing is assuming that since the so-called “garrote” is nonfunctional as it was found, the strangulation didn’t happen. She was strangled with a ligature, but I don’t believe it was as it appears. I’ll discuss that further with you if you care to hear more about it.

I am open to a coherent theory of why head blow first, strangulation second- but I would wish to inspect autopsy photos of head.
My interest includes photos of the following:

head shaved of all hair,
head with scalp flap pealed back over fracture site,
cut sections of injured scalp, including microscopy views,
head with scalp removed,
head with skull cap removed,
gross brain in all views,
view of intracranial vault after brain, meninges, brain stem removed,
then cut brain views- including entire right hemisphere – AP, lateral, view from top and view from bottom,
then coronal views of brain slabs displayed in order from frontal lobe to occipital lobe.

The brain sections were done by the ME, but none of the things you’ve listed as valuable are available to the public. One neurologist who was consulted (Dr. Lucy Rorke-Adams) has reportedly cited coning in the cerebellar tonsils (tonsillar herniation) as one of the factors in calculating a lengthy time between the head blow and actual death. But contrary to that is the lack of any notation of it in the autopsy report -- or any notation of transcalvarial herniation through the depressed fracture.

If someone in this forum can provide commentary germane to the questions I pose above, I welcome a response. If someone could direct me to a website showing JBR autopsy photos that necessarily include photos of the skull, brain,and cut brain specimens, I would be deeply grateful.

Thanks
Zeno49

Unfortunately, that has all not been made public, and I doubt anyone here would want to see it even if it had. If you can write me a PM on here, I’ll try to give you a little more information that might be helpful to you. I’d welcome a serious conversation about it and would appreciate any opinions you might provide.

 

[Sunshine4Me]

Question. I've read through this thread before so please forgive me if this has been asked and I've forgotten. Burke said in his interview with the child psychologist that Jonbenet was hit in the head with a hammer. Could she have been hit with a hammer? They make them in different shapes and sizes. I've even seen some with covers that could cushion a blow and perhaps protect skin from breaking if a person were hit. The basement would be the type of place to find a hammer if perhaps both kids were down there playing and an argument broke out.

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[Yvettea]

They are drawn to the flash light as the weapon because it was wiped clean of prints but was left conspicuously in the kitchen counter.

 

[GoldenFleece]

They are drawn to the flash light as the weapon because it was wiped clean of prints but was left conspicuously in the kitchen counter.

Question is, why wipe it clean of prints at all if its a household item? Surely prints of the household would be expected on it and not deemed suspicious? Unless there was possibly other material on it.

 

[Sunshine4Me]

They are drawn to the flash light as the weapon because it was wiped clean of prints but was left conspicuously in the kitchen counter.

Yeah I know, it's just a small thing gnawing at me that he brought up the knife which they found nearby, and then he said they hit her with a hammer. Why even say it was a hammer at all? He could have just said they hit her in the head and left it at that. I'm probably over thinking. It must be bedtime lol. Goodnight 😴

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[No it's not]

Just a quick note. If JR went downstairs with a flashlight to get BR back to bed - according to BR in DP's interview- , he may have left that flashlight in BR's room. If BR again sneaked out he may have taken that flashlight and then whatever evolved downstairs. As the flashlight had been wiped down inside and outside, when it was located, the individual would have had to have good reasons to do that. What reasons? Why not leave the flashlight next to JBR with the evidence on it? One, there would have been BR and JR's (!) fingerprints on it and obviously no foreign prints, if no intruder was present. Wiping down the batteries and not claiming ownership of the flashlight leaves room for the theory an intruder brought it in. That's where the "garrote" kicks in. The garrote would kill the victim without the killer putting hands on her and leaving marks. Also, the flashlight may still be a red herring and the location of the flashlight as well. Even if the flashlight had been used, putting it (back) into the kitchen may be part of staging as well.

-Nin

 

[DeDee]

Hiya, otg. Great response to Doctor Geradts and enjoyed learning from your post, as usual.

I should have the shows edited by Saturday night. (The unscheduled Dr. Phil show slowed things up for me.)
I will post links in the Media Links thread here at WS and also at the following thread at FFJ.
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?10391-JonBenet-video-links-–-Fall-2016&

Special thanks to you, cynic for providing the video links. I can only imagine how you feel after all of these years of studying the hideous, heinous murder of JonBenet.

At the very beginning, of the third taping, Burke is confronted with the HiTech foot print evidence found in the moldy basement room from hell otherwise known as the WC. BR remembers having hiking boots with compasses on the shoelaces yet doesn't recall the name brand. DP tells BR that investigators claim that footprint is evidence against him.

BRs defensive response was, "It's my house. I went to play in the basement all of the time...with the train set...so if they determined that to be my footprint, that doesn't really...prove anything." Then, his right hand flippantly slaps the arm of the leather chair.

Further, even though he claims to not have read the RN, or, at least, all of the RN, nor has he listened to the 911 call. He's only heard about the 911 call because authorities claim his voice is heard on it. When DP asks him what he would tell those who still think he was involved in the death of his sister, BR tells us to "look at the evidence or the lack thereof."

What is the hard evidence against Burke? Among a few other items, in no particular order, here is my list of circumstantial evidence. You, the jury, can decide.

• matching footprint in the WC
• went downstairs to play after everyone was in bed asleep (by his own admission)
• likes pineapple snack
• fingerprints are on the bowl of pineapple
• fragments of pineapple are found in his sister's GI tract
• fingerprints are found on the tea glass next to the bowl of pineapple
• His tDNA is on his sister's pink nightgown found in the WC; a drop of JBs blood is also on the pink gown and droplets on the pillowcase found in her bedroom
• familiarity with knots
• enjoyed whittling with knives and owned up to three at one time (Patsy's interrogations)
• played with a train set that used track with the problematic missing center pin that could create wounds found on his sister's back; tho I'm not sure about her larger facial marks
• previously caught playing doctor with sister by housekeeper
• pj pants with poop left on his sister's bedroom floor
• hit JB in the face the year before with a golf club in Charlevoix; JB sees dr. + a plastic surgeon but no action is taken on her cheek's scar
• had opportunity to use the heavy flashlight if JR left it in his room
• books the Paugh's gave his parents to read about proper child rearing and growing up too soon
• videos from the CPS approved psychiatrists' who questioned BR that provide a glimpse of his responses and infantile reactions a few days after his sister's murder
• likely was being seen by CPS prior to the crime; defense built an island of privacy around his medical records
• the signed Grand Jury True Bills

:cow:
After watching the 3 DP shows once again, BR gives me the feeling that he likes it that we, the public, are not certain which came first: the head blow or the strangulation, and that we spend copious hours discussing it, also, that we are not 100% on the head blow weapon, whether it be a hammer, flashlight, baseball bat, et al. Further, he really seems to enjoy the fact that his parents never went to jail nor can he be charged with the crime. I feel as though he treats this entire episode as a Nintendo game that's meant to be won.

 

[fedfan4life]

OTG, very simplistic question - If the pipe to which you refer is the implement used to create the skull indentation and fracture, what are the odds that it would be found against the wall in a standing position? Reminder - I am of the thought that everything other than the clean-up and note was done by Burke, which means that neither Patsy nor John would know the importance of a random pipe laying on the floor of the wine cellar. So, that would mean that Burke would be the one to place it where it was found (presumably). Is that likely?

 

[Tortoise]

Did anyone ever raise the possibility that it was the long rod of a golf iron that hit her skull, and not the club end?

Only in reading through the interviews there was a golf iron found outside the back of the house, as well as the baseball bat but in a different location. John also says he thinks an iron is missing from his bag when he is asked to look at the photos. He could be raising this to point towards an intruder having removed one.

 

[BoldBear]

[Snip] That's where the "garrote" kicks in. The garrote would kill the victim without the killer putting hands on her and leaving marks. [Snip]

I like everything you brought up but this part. You think a 9 year old is plotting forensic countermeasures? He's worried that they find handprints on his sister if he strangles her with his bare hands?

 

[otg]

Hiya, otg. Great response to Doctor Geradts and enjoyed learning from your post, as usual.

My mistake. I assumed by the username and the background stated that the poster was Dr. Zeno Geradts, who has maintained a forensics site for years:

Zeno's Forensic Site :: Home

...and:
Zeno's Forensic Site : information on forensic science

That poster is not Dr. Geradts. (Admittedly, :blushing: I guess I was hoping to impress him with the fact that I recognized the name.) However, the poster does have just as impressive a background (or maybe even more) as Zeno Geradts. If anything productive comes of our conversation that I can pass on, I will.

 

[Heymom]

The CBS series held such great promise, but I have grave reservations about it at the moment. I hope I'm wrong but as it stands I fear the Investigation Discovery series with all of its warts may turn out to be the best of the bunch.

I hated it that the series promoted this idea as if it were established fact that the Maglite was the murder weapon! Didn't like to see Spitz and Lee on the panel since they had made up their minds about what had happened and were insisting that their version of reality was true...some of what they said was patently FALSE, easily verified by the actual evidence. That wound is NOT rectangular!

 

[Heymom]

Did anyone ever raise the possibility that it was the long rod of a golf iron that hit her skull, and not the club end?

Only in reading through the interviews there was a golf iron found outside the back of the house, as well as the baseball bat but in a different location. John also says he thinks an iron is missing from his bag when he is asked to look at the photos. He could be raising this to point towards an intruder having removed one.

Golf clubs are balanced to the end that actually hits the ball. The handle end is not heavy enough to bash someone's skull in.

 

[Tortoise]

Let's see if I can attach a picture, haven't done this before -

I think it's gone in the wrong place but at least it's here. Not the handle part but the extension to the club end. I'd think that was pretty weighty.

 

[Tortoise]

Sorry about the size of that post :giggle:

 

[Djoop]

Bit weird they found the flashlight on the kitchen table. Why not put it in the drawers or remove it along with the rope and the tape.If it was staged, maybe it was meant to draw away attention, as far fedged as that may be.
What I don't understand is that the murder weapon didn't leave any mark on JBRs hair & skull. Or is that simply something (touch DNA?) that couldn't be researched at the time?

 

[otg]

OTG, very simplistic question - If the pipe to which you refer is the implement used to create the skull indentation and fracture, what are the odds that it would be found against the wall in a standing position? Reminder - I am of the thought that everything other than the clean-up and note was done by Burke, which means that neither Patsy nor John would know the importance of a random pipe laying on the floor of the wine cellar. So, that would mean that Burke would be the one to place it where it was found (presumably). Is that likely?

I don’t know if I can give you a simplistic answer, my friend, much less anything definitive as far as odds of this happening. But what I can do is show you the series of photos that led me down this path. I think it’s important enough to explain it from the start.

When I started this thread, I didn’t know exactly where it would lead me. I simply knew when I realized that Dr. Merer’s description of the depressed fracture as being “rectangular” was wrong, my thoughts on the weapon that caused it changed. I initially thought that the “heel” of a putter was what had struck her, which would have had sufficient weight and force behind it and the correct shape to cause a rectangular “hole.”

If you followed the progression of my numbered posts in this thread, you’ll see how I arrived at a cylindrical object that would have a diameter of somewhere from 1/2” to 1.” I tried to imagine what might have had that dimension that would have also been available to whoever it was who caused the head blow. Did they have a pool table somewhere which would have made a pool cue possible? A small rolling pin? A dumbbell bar?

Then I noticed in one of the crime scene photos the apparent signs that the water heater had been replaced and the workers had left behind a work pail with different parts and possibly tools that might fit (the pail is too dark in the photo to discern exactly what’s in it). But with my limited experience with home repairs I realized that a leftover piece of iron pipe might very well have been left in that bucket, and its location was right by the WC entrance where JonBenet’s bladder had voided upon death. So take a look at the following photos. The first is the earliest taken by CSIs, and it shows the sticker on a brand new water heater. In the corner to the left you can see stacks of framed window screens leaned up against the end of the freezer (not visible in this photo) -- a perfect place to hide something. No?

The next photo was taken after the window screens had been moved to somewhere else, exposing the corner of the freezer, the wall, and the floor in that area. Also in this photo, you can see the 5-gallon pail I mentioned earlier.

But what you don’t see in the previous photo is what floored me when I saw the following screen capture from an NBC (by the logo in the bottom right corner) documentary in the next photo. In that photo, you can see in the corner area two objects leaned up against the wall that weren’t there in the CS photos. One is something white and a just little bit taller than the height of the freezer, and the other is what appears to be a section of iron pipe shorter than the height of the freezer.

So this leads to a lot of questions:

• Where did those two objects come from?
• Where were they when the CS photos were taken?
• Why didn’t the investigators take something like that into evidence and check it as a possible weapon (DNA, fingerprints, fiber)?
• Who leaned them up against the wall and why?
• Exactly when was the video taken from which this screen cap was taken?

Then after I saw what I believe might well have been the object that caused the skull fractures, I saw another screen cap of Smit walking through the basement for the Michael Tracey crock.

There in that corner area, almost right under his nose, are those same two objects lying there inconspicuously obvious. The white object (whatever it is) has been knocked over or laid down on its side, but the iron pipe is still leaning up against the wall -- well after BPD investigators have left the scene and given up searching for evidence. How ironic is it that the object that might have caused JonBenet’s skull fractures is still there going unnoticed for anyone to see? I said earlier in this thread that I think the weapon that caused the depressed fracture left what is like a fingerprint of the object. I’m 100% certain that Spitz is wrong about the end of a Maglite being the object that caused it (wouldn't be the only thing he's wrong about). But alas, I’m just an anonymous internet poster. Who’s gonna listen to me?

 

[Heymom]

Then after I saw what I believe might well have been the object that caused the skull fractures, I saw another screen cap of Smit walking through the basement for the Michael Tracey crock.

There in that corner area, almost right under his nose, are those same two objects lying there inconspicuously obvious. The white object (whatever it is) has been knocked over or laid down on its side, but the iron pipe is still leaning up against the wall -- well after BPD investigators have left the scene and given up searching for evidence. How ironic is it that the object that might have caused JonBenet’s skull fractures is still there going unnoticed for anyone to see? I said earlier in this thread that I think the weapon that caused the depressed fracture left what is like a fingerprint of the object. I’m 100% certain that Spitz is wrong about the end of a Maglite being the object that caused it. But alas, I’m just an anonymous internet poster. Who’s gonna listen to me?

Was there maybe a HAMMER in that bucket? And yes, I know her injury doesn't look like a hammer to the skull, but maybe the side of a hammer or some other tool?

 

[Heymom]

Bit weird they found the flashlight on the kitchen table. Why not put it in the drawers or remove it along with the rope and the tape.If it was staged, maybe it was meant to draw away attention, as far fedged as that may be.
What I don't understand is that the murder weapon didn't leave any mark on JBRs hair & skull. Or is that simply something (touch DNA?) that couldn't be researched at the time?

Her hair probably cushioned the blow a bit and also meant that the murder weapon didn't make full direct contact with her scalp. But the weapon itself probably would have had some of her hair at least.