Trial - Ross Harris #5

[Hope4More]

I've just done screenshots of the difference between the 2014 and the ones done last week.

Wow, what a difference that made in viewing the doll!

Any possibility you could post them?

 

[monkeypants]

I find it very strange that RH had zero people sitting behind him in support.

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[GA_Peach]

If the car seat was too small, it's just one more example of how Ross was knowingly negligent with respect to Cooper's safety and well-being. If I were presenting this case, I would want the jurors to understand tbe inherent risks of an ill-fitting car seat.[/QUOTE

One more example? LE found no evidence that Cooper had been neglected in any way at all. He was well nourished, happy, bright, had appropriate everything at home and plenty of it, sociable, saw a pediatrician regularly, and seemed "normal" in every way to those who saw him everyday.

The facts are:

1. It was pediatrician and child-safety recommended and appropriate to have Cooper in a rear facing car seat, no matter anyone's personal opinion or preference on the matter

2. Car seat specifications are based on a prototype of body proportions and actual children's bodies differ, including Cooper's, whose torso in fact fit the seat, and whose legs by any of the versions shown weren't in an uncomfortable position.

3. Car seat specifications, i do believe, are predicated as much or more on manufacturers' exposure to liability (I know a great deal about this angle, given my DH's practice area of the law) as they are to the car seat manufacturers' having omniscent knowledge of what car seat is best for the wildly different body types of real children

4. A second bigger -boy seat had been bought, and was in Leanna's car, probably because she drove Cooper around more frequently than did RH.

5. June 18th aside or not, we parents are fallible human beings, often juggling too many obligations of every kind, and yes, sometimes we don't provide the absolutely most perfect whatever for our children at precisely the moment all the parenting guide books tell us we must.

Sigh. You completely took my comments out-of-context. I was simply stating that I would have expected a car seat expert to testify about the inherent risks of having a child who is too long for a car seat to be in said car seat.

Actually, Ross drove Cooper around more frequently (look at the daycare logs). That's why the car seat was originally in Ross's car, but it was moved to Leanna's car for her long drive to Alabama. IMO there is no excuse for not having TWO car seats that fit Cooper since he was being driven around by both his parents. That's negligent.

For the record, I have never questioned Cooper being rear-facing. The AAP recommends all toddlers under the age of 2 be rear-facing.

According to you, LE found no evidence that Cooper had been neglected in any way at all. Really? Then why is JRH on trial for first and second degree child cruelty as well as felony and malice murder of his child? I think that the evidence presented so far has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Ross criminally neglected his child. That neglect was fatal, and there is no worse neglect than that. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Seasidepch]

Whether Cooper was slightly tilted left or right I believe you would see his head if you turned to the right. MOO

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Especially when someone has just buckled him into this car seat. This wasn't a van and Cooper's car seat was way in the back. RH is over 6 ft tall, the driver's seat had to be all the way back for him to fit. My husband is 5' 11" and he puts the seat all the way back to fit behind the wheel and he isn't as large as RH was. His arm would have been hitting the car seat. He would have been able to hear Cooper breathing from where he sat.

 

[TexMex]

Especially when someone has just buckled him into this car seat. This wasn't a van and Cooper's car seat was way in the back. RH is over 6 ft tall, the driver's seat had to be all the way back for him to fit. My husband is 5' 11" and he puts the seat all the way back to fit behind the wheel and he isn't as large as RH was. His arm would have been hitting the car seat. He would have been able to hear Cooper breathing from where he sat.

Very true. A 6'2" mans head has barely any room before scraping the headliner in that vehicle. He could absolutely see down into that car seat.

 

[katydid23]

Hallelujah. Weak note to end on, imo, but yay, moving on.

I am not sure it was that weak. I think the visuals, with the head showing slightly , is pretty damning for the DT. And it reenforces what they saw yesterday, in terms of the car being so small and cramped. JMO

 

[rob]

I find it very strange that RH had zero people sitting behind him in support.

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If he was my son, brother, former best friend, I would sit there even if I thought he was guilty. But, if I thought he was guilty, I would have also tried to convince him to plead guilty and take responsibility for what he had done.

Also, my last word on the car seat. No' infant' car seat I have ever seen would be suitable for a 2 yr old, especially in the reverse position. where does there legs go, especially if he was so long-legged as I have read. Would they be up on the back of the rear seat, where an adult would lean? And, if RH saw him in the seat while making a right turn in heavy traffic, how on earth could he not have seen him backing into a space, retrieving his items from the passenger seat before exiting the car, while throwing in the bulbs, etc,etc, etc.
I would expect his head to be at its highest 2 minutes after being strapped in, even if asleep, than it would be after an exhausting 7 hours of fighting for his life and dying.
all MOO

I said my last word, but I thought of something else: In these infant seats, if the child is larger, is it not possible to turn the seat around and strap it in, in the facing fwd direction. That would seem to make more sense for the legs.

 

[Hope4More]

I am not sure it was that weak. I think the visuals, with the head showing slightly , is pretty damning for the DT. And it reenforces what they saw yesterday, in terms of the car being so small and cramped. JMO

I know I'm thick headed when it comes to TESTIMONY about the carseat, and I wonder if I'm alone in that or everyone else here understands the voluminous snd endlessly contradictory and technical car seat testimony perfectly well.

Shame on me if so, but regardless my scrambled brain on the issue, I am 100% clear that I saw photos today that showed two different positions of Cooper's head- one above the seat (or to the very very top) , and one at least an inch below.

So, it adds to my confusion that anyone here is positively sure now, based on the evidence they saw today, that Cooper's head was above OR below the car seat.

I've explained many things many times here. Perhaps someone will do the courtesy of explaining, based on the evidence presented today , not what"must " be so, why it is certain Cooper's head stuck out over the top of the carseat?

 

[momoftwocrazies]

I think the state proved their case. I don't think it's even close.

 

[katydid23]

I know I'm thick headed when it comes to TESTIMONY about the carseat, and I wonder if I'm alone in that or everyone else here understands the voluminous snd endlessly contradictory and technical car seat testimony perfectly well.

Shame on me if so, but regardless my scrambled brain on the issue, I am 100% clear that I saw photos today that showed two different positions of Cooper's head- one above the seat (or to the very very top) , and one at least an inch below.

So, it adds to my confusion that anyone here is positively sure now, based on the evidence they saw today, that Cooper's head was above OR below the car seat.

I've explained many things many times here. Perhaps someone will do the courtesy of explaining, based on the evidence presented today , not what"must " be so, why it is certain Cooper's head stuck out over the top of the carseat?

I didn't mean it extended over the top of the car seat, lengthwise. I meant that it is visible, sticking up, because it is big and round, like a balloon, and you can see it if you glance back there . Hard to explain, lol...

 

[Hope4More]

Sigh. You completely took my comments out-of-context. I was simply stating that I would have expected a car seat expert to testify about the inherent risks of having a child who is too long for a car seat to be in said car seat.

Actually, Ross drove Cooper around more frequently (look at the daycare logs). That's why the car seat was originally in Ross's car, but it was moved to Leanna's car for her long drive to Alabama. IMO there is no excuse for not having TWO car seats that fit Cooper since he was being driven around by both his parents. That's negligent.

For the record, I have never questioned Cooper being rear-facing. The AAP recommends all toddlers under the age of 2 be rear-facing.

According to you, LE found no evidence that Cooper had been neglected in any way at all. Really? Then why is JRH on trial for first and second degree child cruelty as well as felony and malice murder of his child? I think that the evidence presented so far has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Ross criminally neglected his child. That neglect was fatal, and there is no worse neglect than that. Just my opinion, of course.

I responded directly to your comment that Cooper was in the wrong car seat, and that was another example of negligence.

Yes, it has occurred to me this trial is about whether or not Ross Harris was negligent, criminally negligent, or a murderer. That point, however, is beside the point of my response, which was quite clearly not about what happened on June 18.

And btw, the daycare logs do not reflect how often either parent drove Cooper other than back and forth to daycare, so provide a very incomplete picture.

 

[smeck]

I had to stop following this thread because it hurt my stomach to read the comments about how RH could have forgotten his son in the car seat by accident. I cannot and will not believe this and I think anyone with any experience with children in car seats will agree with me. RH is a very disturbed man IMO and poor Cooper had to suffer for this.

 

[JudyBolton]

If the car seat was too small, it's just one more example of how Ross was knowingly negligent with respect to Cooper's safety and well-being. If I were presenting this case, I would want the jurors to understand tbe inherent risks of an ill-fitting car seat.[/QUOTE


_________
One more example? LE found no evidence that Cooper had been neglected in any way at all. He was well nourished, happy, bright, had appropriate everything at home and plenty of it, sociable, saw a pediatrician regularly, and seemed "normal" in every way to those who saw him everyday.

The facts are:

1. It was pediatrician and child-safety recommended and appropriate to have Cooper in a rear facing car seat, no matter anyone's personal opinion or preference on the matter

2. Car seat specifications are based on a prototype of body proportions and actual children's bodies differ, including Cooper's, whose torso in fact fit the seat, and whose legs by any of the versions shown weren't in an uncomfortable position.

3. Car seat specifications, i do believe, are predicated as much or more on manufacturers' exposure to liability (I know a great deal about this angle, given my DH's practice area of the law) as they are to the car seat manufacturers' having omniscent knowledge of what car seat is best for the wildly different body types of real children

4. A second bigger -boy seat had been bought, and was in Leanna's car, probably because she drove Cooper around more frequently than did RH.

5. June 18th aside or not, we parents are fallible human beings, often juggling too many obligations of every kind, and yes, sometimes we don't provide the absolutely most perfect whatever for our children at precisely the moment all the parenting guide books tell us we must.

So are you saying that it is ok to ignore the manufacturer's recommendations of when a car seat is too small for a child? Interesting that yesterday we spent post after post analyzing the "inches" that the car seat was in the wrong location for the recreation video - but the *actual* size of the car seat/*actual* size of Cooper is negotiable.

 

[JudyBolton]

I know I'm thick headed when it comes to TESTIMONY about the carseat, and I wonder if I'm alone in that or everyone else here understands the voluminous snd endlessly contradictory and technical car seat testimony perfectly well.

Shame on me if so, but regardless my scrambled brain on the issue, I am 100% clear that I saw photos today that showed two different positions of Cooper's head- one above the seat (or to the very very top) , and one at least an inch below.

So, it adds to my confusion that anyone here is positively sure now, based on the evidence they saw today, that Cooper's head was above OR below the car seat.

I've explained many things many times here. Perhaps someone will do the courtesy of explaining, based on the evidence presented today , not what"must " be so, why it is certain Cooper's head stuck out over the top of the carseat?

So do you believe that Cooper's head was below the top of the car seat in the morning (therefore JRH could not see him ) BUT after 7 hours, although when he entered the car, moving the light bulbs, putting his briefcase in the car, bending his head down to sit down, etc. etc. he still did NOT see Cooper (his head was still below the top) YET minutes later, as he turned his head to change lanes - suddenly Cooper's head is visible?

I ask you this because in my most generous (and unlikely) scenario - I believe he at the very least knew he was there when he got in the car but just started driving. This would explain his weird choice of direction to the movie theatre if he were searching for an appropriate spot to pull Cooper out.

 

[GA_Peach]

So are you saying that it is ok to ignore the manufacturer's recommendations of when a car seat is too small for a child? Interesting that yesterday we spent post after post analyzing the "inches" that the car seat was in the wrong location for the recreation video - but the *actual* size of the car seat/*actual* size of Cooper is negotiable.

Amen.

I responded directly to your comment that Cooper was in the wrong car seat, and that was another example of negligence.

Yes, it has occurred to me this trial is about whether or not Ross Harris was negligent, criminally negligent, or a murderer. That point, however, is beside the point of my response, which was quite clearly not about what happened on June 18.

And btw, the daycare logs do not reflect how often either parent drove Cooper other than back and forth to daycare, so provide a very incomplete picture.

BBM

If Leanna was the primary driver of Cooper, why in the world would Ross and Leanna have originally put the new car seat in Ross's car? Did they want Cooper to be in the smaller seat for a larger portion of the time? I think that the daycare records combined with our knowledge about the movement of the car seat certainly points to Ross being the primary driver. None of this changes the fact that they should have had TWO car seatss. Of course, you are free to interpret the data how you see fit.

 

[Hope4More]

I am not sure it was that weak. I think the visuals, with the head showing slightly , is pretty damning for the DT. And it reenforces what they saw yesterday, in terms of the car being so small and cramped. JMO

I can see that perspective, but it also provided yet another occasion for the DT to question the validity of the evidence being presented to them by the State, another opportunity to shred Stoddard's credibility, and yet more conflicting testimony about whether RH could and couldn't have seen Cooper, so IMO, yes, a weak close.

 

[rob]

I had to stop following this thread because it hurt my stomach to read the comments about how RH could have forgotten his son in the car seat by accident. I cannot and will not believe this and I think anyone with any experience with children in car seats will agree with me. RH is a very disturbed man IMO and poor Cooper had to suffer for this.

I'm with you. I want people held responsible for their actions. The number of children killed in this country by their own parents is unbelievable. And then the stories about they disappeared from their beds, the parent blinked and the baby is gone, etc.... too much tv and media I guess. then the parent wants to move on, and they cook up a scheme. It's also unbelievable to how many get away with it.
MOO

 

[keeponsearching]

Everyone is talking about inches from the top. It should also be about how big Coopers head is, from back to front, and around. The pictures presented with the doll seem about right to me.

 

[Hope4More]

Amen.



BBM

If Leanna was the primary driver of Cooper, why in the world would Ross and Leanna have originally put the new car seat in Ross's car? Did they want Cooper to be in the smaller seat for a larger portion of the time? I think that the daycare records combined with our knowledge about the movement of the car seat certainly points to Ross being the primary driver. Of course, you are free to interpret the data how you see fit.

Precisely because he wasn't the primary driver. The rear facing seat was safer. And, to believe Ross was the primary driver is to believe it was Ross who drove Cooper to any and all extracurricular activities outside of daycare, which kinda contradicts the Ross was an uninvolved, diffident, only for show dad storyline.

 

[BlueBanana]

Everyone is talking about inches from the top. It should also be about how big Coopers head is, from back to front, and around. The pictures presented with the doll seem about right to me.

i had the same thought.