UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #1

[JamesKing]

At 3.25am, at the loading bay at the top of Short Brackland, Corrie could have initially walked in three directions.

1. Back the way he came.
2. Down the pedestrianised zone, in front of the shopping centre.
3. Down Short Brackland towards Cannon Street.

As the camera pointing his way is on a "timed sweep" and possibly would only point that way again in another 2 minutes and 48 seconds, it is impossible to conclude which way he went.

If he headed down Short Brackland, he would have which had been pointing that way, completely unseen (as would anybody else that may have been there....including any vehicle(s) that may have been parked there).
But that route would only make sense IF "he was in a habit of walking home" OR "had done so at least one time previously". Yet we are told, he was in a habit of walking home AND he had never ever walked home previously.

In so much as, no other cameras in BSE had any further sight of him (although they are likely on "timed sweeps" so we don't really know which way they are looking or at what time) and no taxi driver has come forward and said they took him to "where ever"....we have to assume (somehow) he went down Short Brackland.

And again, we are back to "was it a habit of his to walk home....after a night out on the beer" !

A simple scenario to this would be.... he is having a pee, someone doesn't like that, that someone gives him a crack, being that drunk he falls over and cracks his skull.
In panic and fearful of the repercussions, they put him in the boot of a car and take him away.

The "pro's" to that are, Corrie is likely having a pee, no one else is there, everything is unseen by the CCTV, a car could be parked at the top of Short Brackland and completely off CCTV. A car could depart unseen by CCTV. And a car could depart prior to the bin lorry entering Short Brackland.
The "Con's" to that are, no one is seen in that area by the CCTV, no one is seen heading to that area by any other CCTV camera in the area. No one has reported a "car regularly parked" in that position.

 

[guruagain]

I've been asked to compile a list of the most commonly asked questions (even the answered ones, if they're still being re-asked) with a view to having a pinned Q&A on the Facebook group. This will hopefully minimise/resolve some of the repetition and confusion!

I'm trawling through the thousands of comments on the group at the moment to work on this, but if anyone can think of a particularly burning question that they've seen asked but not answered, let me know!

Could you ask where his car was parked. I think this is important as we can see what direction he may have been heading and people nearby can check their CCTV or any motorists can check dashcam footage.

 

[Ironside]

His family said his car wasn't parked nearby and that's all we need to know. One of the first things police would do would be to check all the cctv going towards that area. They've already appealed for everybody who was in BSE that night to come forward so the general public knowing exactly where the car was wouldn't make any difference. He could have parked it on the moon for all I care, it's what happened after 3.25am that only matters.

 

[Deleted member 178385]

Could you ask where his car was parked. I think this is important as we can see what direction he may have been heading and people nearby can check their CCTV or any motorists can check dashcam footage.

I've sent my list off now, but that was one of the questions on it.

 

[guruagain]

His family said his car wasn't parked nearby and that's all we need to know. One of the first things police would do would be to check all the cctv going towards that area. They've already appealed for everybody who was in BSE that night to come forward so the general public knowing exactly where the car was wouldn't make any difference. He could have parked it on the moon for all I care, it's what happened after 3.25am that only matters.

Completely disagree.

 

[mrazda71]

I have seen on the FB group that his car was parked on Waitrose carpark but I don't know if that's fact or not.

 

[Amonet]

I think if Corrie was with the phone on that journey that he was alive and probably willing and happy to get into the car.

I think I want to know if Corrie would have had a legitimate reason for getting in a car going to Barton Mills/Mildenhall. If he'd got into a car (fake taxi or anything) that had offered him a lift back to base, his suspicions would be up almost immediately...even if there's central locking, just wait for the car to slow down and then attack the driver and exit the car.

But what if Corrie didn't mind going in that direction? It doesn't make any sense because he does want to be back at base by morning to feed his puppy. But if he'd met a girl and got hooked up at the club, then he might go back to her place and either go home in the morning or call a friend to take care of the puppy. So it's possible he could have got 'sidetracked' into some spur of the moment car ride 'to' somewhere for some reason that made sense to him, but which we're not aware of?

 

[guruagain]

I have seen on the FB group that his car was parked on Waitrose carpark but I don't know if that's fact or not.

Thanks. That makes sense - right next to Flex nightclub.

 

[sleepyhead25]

Didn't particularly want to add to the Facebook group, its hard to keep up with and I don't want to at all offend/upset the family as at this stage I find it so hard to believe he is still alive.

I have read through most this thread and have tried my best to keep up with the Corrie Facebook page but some things I would like to add in to the mix:

1. It is talked about Corrie being a creature of habit. If it wasn't unusual behaviour for Corrie to sleep in door ways half way through his night before heading home, was someone else in town aware of this prior to the night and preying on him, hoping he would return for a night out soon? Had they been watching or waiting for their chance to attack for a while if he had regular nights out in BSE? Had they even maybe befriended him and had conversations with him in the past? Had he let on he was planning on walking on home alone?

2. Again, as above, if it wasn't unusual behaviour for Corrie to walk home back to base alone quite some distance (although now this seems to be getting disputed by the fam that he ever did this but I will ignore this) was again a perp aware of this and waiting in the shadows for an attack - had they previously seen him on nights out and knew roughly what time he stayed out til. Had they seen him head out of town before? Had they seen him worse for wear on his walk home? As above had they befriended him? Could they have lured him into their vehicle? Did the perp strike lucky?

3. The fact that stories keep changing makes me think that Corrie, although obviously very close to his family, didn't keep them up to date with every aspect of his life and his every movement, like most 23 yr old men. At first we were told that he would regularly walk back to base alone after a night out, then that he would never do it. His Mum also said when I begun to look at the story that he would be happy getting in a strangers car. Corries Mum said he would have told someone where he was going.. I am not sure he would of. I am not sure how many males I know that keep in contact with there families to let them know they are in a taxi/home safe. Most men I know (sorry to draw stereotypes) assume they are invincible. There is not the culture among young men to text to let everyone know your home safe, text in the taxi, not wonder off by yourself on a night out.. I am sure Nicola encouraged him to keep in contact but I am not sure that he did it, else they would have a much clearer idea of what was normal behaviour for him. I think at the moment its all guess work.

4. I think the police have more CCTV and way more info than they are letting on. I think the reason they are keeping hush is quite simple and it is bcos it could lesson the chances of getting a possible conviction if someone has harmed Corrie - at this stage they must have some evidence that this is the case. I would think they have some potential suspects they are interested in.

5. A bit out there, but if Luke Durbin and Corrie are related cases with the same perp, how did the perp manage to over power them and convince them to come with them or get them to even approach as strong young happy males? I am thinking a Ted Bundy style approach where the perp seems pleasant enough and even vulnerable in some way, and neither men were expecting to be overpowered by someone and were totally caught off guard hense fight or flight had no time to kick in. Being a bit tired, having a bit of drink in the system worked to perps advantage?

Sorry if I have just repeated whats already been said!

Would like to add I believe it was either an accident and Corrie has either fallen into water/succumbed to the elements or there was foul play involved. They would be the only 2 things I would be looking at. I just didn't think there was a lot to add to the accident side of things.

 

[ChuckieD]

I think if Corrie was with the phone on that journey that he was alive and probably willing and happy to get into the car.

I think I want to know if Corrie would have had a legitimate reason for getting in a car going to Barton Mills/Mildenhall. If he'd got into a car (fake taxi or anything) that had offered him a lift back to base, his suspicions would be up almost immediately...even if there's central locking, just wait for the car to slow down and then attack the driver and exit the car.

But what if Corrie didn't mind going in that direction? It doesn't make any sense because he does want to be back at base by morning to feed his puppy. But if he'd met a girl and got hooked up at the club, then he might go back to her place and either go home in the morning or call a friend to take care of the puppy. So it's possible he could have got 'sidetracked' into some spur of the moment car ride 'to' somewhere for some reason that made sense to him, but which we're not aware of?

I was just doing the washing up and wondering whether he'd got in a cab but didn't have enough funds and got in an altercation with the taxi driver. I would imagine the taxi rank has CCTV though but maybe he flagged one down.

Do we know how old the puppy was?

He looks quite proud of his appearance so I personally can't see him going for a hook up after sleeping in a doorway for 2hrs but who knows. The lack of or the contradiction in info in this case is so frustrating.

 

[haynat21]

have the police ruled out Corrie walking down short brackland street because the 3 teenagers they traced did not see him? Would that then leave the only other exit going down the front of Cornhill shopping centre?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

First and foremost, it's the Daily Fail, we know what they're like for wanting to stir up fear, and they're not beyond making up stories to suit their agenda.

I've noticed that Websleuths has an ambivalent attitude to the Mail. Links to stories in its pages crop up in many a discussion thread here; those posting the links and those reading them make their own minds up on a story by story business. But just because something in the Mail doesn't mean it should simply be discounted.

If it's true, then it sounds like this is advice based on the Marham incident? Or it could be a journalist trying to make a story by adding together a possible terrorist abduction attempt and a popular type of phone app, because things like apps and cookies and things are always good for getting paranoid androids het up.

Possible either way.

Technically, an app that does what they're saying there is going to be a higher risk for young women who are at risk of sexual assault on these routes. People, civilian or military, should not make their habits known on social media...it's even risky on a closed account where you personally know everyone who you're 'friends' with, but on publically visible accounts, telling people things like your date of birth, your mother's maiden name, when you're going away for the weekend, etc, is a risk that everyone should be warned about.

Agreed. It's an unfortunate fact of our society that young women are always at risk of attack or sexual assault. They shouldn't be, but there it is. However the possibility of Islamic terrorists targeting serving military personnel is a fairly new one and it would not be surprising if it's being taken seriously.

Plus, I don't see what it has to do with Corrie going missing, because no one could have predicted that he'd be alone, in that place, at that time. How long would someone have had to watch and follow Corrie to even find out that he's in the military and therefore a 'target' for them, and why wouldn't they be spotted?

Without surveillance his movements would not be predictable, agreed. Even so, I've seen it noted that a person who has been in the forces has a different bearing to someone who hasn't. It's in the posture and the confidence with which they move, apparently. That might say something to a watcher.

My sister, when quite young, did 4 or 5 years of ballet. Another dance teacher whom my parents met some years later immediately identified my sister as someone who had done ballet. Apparently there is an element of gracefulness, especially in the way they stand, and in the way they use and hold their their hands, that stays for life with someone who has done ballet.

Perhaps military bearing is the same.

 

[Ironside]

4. I think the police have more CCTV and way more info than they are letting on. I think the reason they are keeping hush is quite simple and it is bcos it could lesson the chances of getting a possible conviction if someone has harmed Corrie - at this stage they must have some evidence that this is the case. I would think they have some potential suspects they are interested in.

Totally agree with this, they'll have a lot of cctv and a very good idea who was in the area at the time.

Would like to add I believe it was either an accident and Corrie has either fallen into water/succumbed to the elements or there was foul play involved. They would be the only 2 things I would be looking at. I just didn't think there was a lot to add to the accident side of things.

Whilst the case has all the elements of a drunken misadventure Corries family insist there is no way he could have got out of BSE on foot without being seen. Which means that someone else was involved in some way.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Reading Nicola's latest post and it really does seem like the Police haven't done house to house and so she is looking to arrange to do it herself.

Two things for me here:

1, If the Police have deemed that house to house isn't required there must be a compelling reason why and they also aren't sharing this reason with the family?

2, It has been shown that the CCTV camera could easily have been looking another way enabling Corrie to walk out/be driven out from the bins without being seen.

I don't think I've ever known a family to be conducting their own investigations at the same time as the Police TBH. With Nicola being a Police FLO I trust see has given this much thought so will go along with what she thinks best.

I just worry what the Suffolk Police think of this plan?

 

[sleepyhead25]

I want to agree but looking at where the at the CCTV cameras are positioned I think its entirely impossible to be lucky and just about avoid the cameras if they are on the wrong cycle. I think its unlikely but I don't think its impossible.

Still possible that someone with either good/bad intentions gave him a lift out of BSE and he chose to end the lift/escaped and then some how had an accident or succumbed to the elements.

If it was someone with bad intentions he could of possibly fought them off, despite being a bit drunk and tired, I imagine being in the RAF would work to his advantage. Its rare that in an attack situation the victim gives up without a fight. Maybe he was able to get away but lost his phone in the process, either in a struggle in the car (presuming at this point he got in an unlicensed taxi or was befriended by someone and got in their car presuming it was safe) or shortly after that whilst maybe running from the situation.

Another situation is that who ever gave him a lift could genuinely be a decent, honest, person meaning no harm. Maybe Corrie realised he was being taken to the wrong RAF base, and said mate, don't worry just drop me here, rather than to appear rude. Hard to find an explanation of how he would lose the phone in this situation other than it just slipping out in to the car, or it falling out whilst he was trying to get back to base. Most young people, myself included, do a 'check' of themselves in every situation before moving on, check they have phone, purse, wallet, before getting out of a car, leaving a friends house, leaving a club, restaurant.

Totally agree with this, they'll have a lot of cctv and a very good idea who was in the area at the time.


Whilst the case has all the elements of a drunken misadventure Corries family insist there is no way he could have got out of BSE on foot without being seen. Which means that someone else was involved in some way.

 

[JamesKing]

Reading Nicola's latest post and it really does seem like the Police haven't done house to house and so she is looking to arrange to do it herself.

Two things for me here:

1, If the Police have deemed that house to house isn't required there must be a compelling reason why and they also aren't sharing this reason with the family?

2, It has been shown that the CCTV camera could easily have been looking another way enabling Corrie to walk out/be driven out from the bins without being seen.

I don't think I've ever known a family to be conducting their own investigations at the same time as the Police TBH. With Nicola being a Police FLO I trust see has given this much thought so will go along with what she thinks best.

I just worry what the Suffolk Police think of this plan?

The CCTV (x3/x4 in that immediate area/looking onto that area) for that period (an hour either side of 3.25am) needs modelling properly. Then the "overlaps" can be seen AND the "dark areas" can be given times.

I think that there is much reliance put on the CCTV footage, but I'm not sure it will show much.

I would be interested if Short Brackland (and particularly the loading area) was used / is used as "short term parking" by people either working in Bury or on a night out in Bury.

 

[JamesKing]

Statistically, this looks less likely to be "an abduction".
Or indeed a "gay sex pick up that turned into murder", which seems to be favoured by the facebbokers !

Most "on male" crime / assaults are usually (if not 99.9%) conducted by "other males".

The fact that Corrie "may have been" peeing in an alley, could be a motivating factor for an assault on him.
Statistically, unprovoked attacks are "infrequent". There is usually a "point of conflict" somewhere in the mix.

The fact that it is reported "he was going to walk home" makes things very unclear indeed. Especially as his mother then said "he has never walked home" (I imagine she has consulted his friends on this matter).

Add to that, he is pretty drunk still, I think on Corrie's mind would be "bed now" so therefore "pee, then taxi".

The "time" seems interesting. The clubs shut at 3am

The fact that the police and Nicola have stated "he may be in a car" may indicate that they are interested in car movements at that time. The fact that a car is indicated, may be pointing to a person that does not drink or if they do, had not drank that evening for a reason.

Just some random thoughts.


EDIT .... I also imagine that the police have "run" these statistics also, as "profiling a crime" is pretty much the name of the game these days. Whilst the evidence is "thin on the ground" (they have no body, no phone and little on CCTV) I suspect they have a fair idea of the profile of a potential attacker....if it turns out to be the case Corrie was indeed attacked.

 

[hermes&&]

Statistically, this looks less likely to be "an abduction".
Or indeed a "gay sex pick up that turned into murder", which seems to be favoured by the facebbokers !

Most "on male" crime / assaults are usually (if not 99.9%) conducted by "other males".

The fact that Corrie "may have been" peeing in an alley, could be a motivating factor for an assault on him.
Statistically, unprovoked attacks are "infrequent". There is usually a "point of conflict" somewhere in the mix.

The fact that it is reported "he was going to walk home" makes things very unclear indeed. Especially as his mother then said "he has never walked home" (I imagine she has consulted his friends on this matter).

Add to that, he is pretty drunk still, I think on Corrie's mind would be "bed now" so therefore "pee, then taxi".

The "time" seems interesting. The clubs shut at 3am

The fact that the police and Nicola have stated "he may be in a car" may indicate that they are interested in car movements at that time. The fact that a car is indicated, may be pointing to a person that does not drink or if they do, had not drank that evening for a reason.

Just some random thoughts.

A punch up gone wrong is one thing. A punch up gone wrong and then taking a body in your car and hiding it seems unlikely

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[JamesKing]

A punch up gone wrong is one thing. A punch up gone wrong and then taking a body in your car and hiding it seems unlikely

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Manslaughter gets you some serious time these days. Right there is (possible) motivation.

 

[hermes&&]

Manslaughter gets you some serious time these days. Right there is (possible) motivation.

By taking the body and driving round with it in his boot the perp would only make things much worse for himself .

But you're the stats guy, so what are the stats on a random assault resulting in the body being taken from the scene by the assailant?

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