Day Number 1 What Convinces You There Was No Intruder/12 Days of JonBenet

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Heymom said:
I believe there were other stairs in the house. The spiral stairs were on one end of the house and the main stairs were elsewhere. The stairs to the basement were also not spiral stairs. Just trying to clear up any misunderstanding that the spiral stairs were the only way to get downstairs.
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Oh yes thank you for pointing that out!

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Duchess518 said:
I just finished reading "The Death of Innocence" by JR and PR. I was curious to see their story and words. I believe alot of the time people who are hiding something or lying will reveal themselves in their speech.

A few quotes stuck out to me.

TDOI page 366
Quote by JR
"Many people have speculated that the killer was familiar with the house. Our home had been open to the public a number of times for various charity events and parties.Around two thousand visitors had streamed through our house during the Christmas 1994 Historic Boulder Homes Tour. It would not have been difficult for the future killer to roam through our place as part of one of those groups, even sneaking downstairs for a look at the basement area or upstairs to find JonBenet's room. Our house had been vacant much of the previous summer when we were in Michigan; a trespasser could have entered the house and literally stayed for days, and we wouldn't have known it. And the killer had four hours when we were gone during the late afternoon and evening of the 25th to get a layout of the house if he hasn't done so before then. Or perhaps after we fell asleep he familiarized himself with the house with the aid of a flashlight. A black mag-light type of flashlight was found on the kitchen counter."

If the murder weapon was the flashlight (and if the Ramsey's knew this), why draw attention to it? To me thats like screaming "HEY HERE IT IS!"

TDOI page 368
Quote by JR
"The coroner's report concluded that JonBenet died from asphyxia due to strangulation. Why the massive blow to the head then? The police theory has been, as far as I know, that either Patsy or I woke up in the mimddle of the night, struck JonBenet in a violent rage, and then staged everything else to look like a kidnapping. I've often told friends that if I were trying to stage this, as the police contend, I could have done a much more convincing job."
OH MY GOD. What the hell John?!

Also in this book it states that the butler pantry door was found open and the Ramsey's didn't know about this until after the fact. Does anyone have more info on this?
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One of the friends who came over early that morning and used that door. He stated he could read the letter through the door because it was on the floor. So that tells me it was closed. If it's the door I'm thinking of. Isn't it near where the ransom note was found? I can't find it on floor plans.

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Here's a clip of the Ramseys on CNN basically daring the police to release the 911 tape after King says Burke is on the tape. Starts at 1:43.


[video=youtube;zH9PesH7Wbg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH9PesH7Wbg[/video]

She's short, sweet, and to the point. She's also convincing.



There's a killer on the loose.

There actually isn't but those words coming from this woman's mouth are good enough to create reasonable doubt.
 
PositiveLight said:
One of the friends who came over early that morning and used that door. He stated he could read the letter through the door because it was on the floor. So that tells me it was closed. If it's the door I'm thinking of. Isn't it near where the ransom note was found? I can't find it on floor plans.

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Hi PL,

The butler's pantry is on the north side of the house. It's the only door on that side. The door John Fernie claimed to have looked through to read the ransom note is on the south side by the kitchen. It opens onto the patio and is near the grate above the broken basement window. HTH. It's too hard to post photos from the pad I'm using right now, but if you can locate the kitchen and the BP on a floor plan, or orient to north and south, you'll get it.
 
Meara said:
Hi PL,

The butler's pantry is on the north side of the house. It's the only door on that side. The door John Fernie claimed to have looked through to read the ransom note is on the south side by the kitchen. It opens onto the patio and is near the grate above the broken basement window. HTH. It's too hard to post photos from the pad I'm using right now, but if you can locate the kitchen and the BP on a floor plan, or orient to north and south, you'll get it.
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Thank you so much!!

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PositiveLight said:
One of the friends who came over early that morning and used that door. He stated he could read the letter through the door because it was on the floor. So that tells me it was closed. If it's the door I'm thinking of. Isn't it near where the ransom note was found? I can't find it on floor plans.
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He came by the way of the kitchen door by the grate not the butler's pantry. The story is that Patsy dropped the note on the floor in the back hallway. John read the note on his hands and knees while she was on the phone with 911. They left the note there until the officer arrived. That's where it was seen. There have been arguments if it could be read through the window. At that time of the morning, there's not a lot of glare on the glass. An interior light would have made it clear.

"When John Fernie arrived he stated (from testimony at Miller trial) that he went to the glass door leading to the kitchen at back of house and saw the note laying on the floor inside the door. Fernie said, 'It was inside the door and I was outside. The door was locked. I read it through the door.'"

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-panic911.htm
 
Every post I read people think Patsy did all the cover up. What does everyone think about John?

To me, he looks like he did all the dirty work. I'm thinking Patsy knew about it, knew about the cover up, but didn't see JB (or what was done to her) until she was brought up from the basement.

I I also found another sleuther comparison of the ransom note to JOHN'S writing (left handed comparison I believe) and she/he believes John wrote the note. I will have to try to find it again.
 
PositiveLight said:
One of the friends who came over early that morning and used that door. He stated he could read the letter through the door because it was on the floor. So that tells me it was closed. If it's the door I'm thinking of. Isn't it near where the ransom note was found? I can't find it on floor plans.

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The following is pasted from the linked page I posted yesterday (post #177)
[ http://solvingjonbenet.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-lou-smit-show.html ]
Smit's butler door story, which gave rise to a major "urban myth" on the internet, is particularly disturbing, as once again he is very clearly stretching the truth to suit his "clients." Here's a more complete picture from reporter and insider Frank Coffman, known on the forums as "Masked Man." Coffman is by no means a member of the BORG persuasion, and has enthusiastically defended both Ramseys. Hopefully this will put that particular urban myth to rest forever:

There was NO open door at the Ramseys' [sic] house on the morning of Dec. 26, 1996. John Ramsey himself found all the doors closed and locked that morning. Here are the FACTS:​
* According to John Ramsey, ALL the doors were LOCKED. John Ramsey told the police that "I looked around the house that morning and... and all the doors were locked and I checked every door on the first floor... and they appeared to be locked." (Thomas, p. 172)​
* Sgt. Paul Reichenbach checked all the doors at the Ramsey house in the early morning of Dec. 26, 1996. He found no open doors and no signs of a break-in.​
* In June 2001, Linda Arndt testified at her civil trial that there were no signs of a break-in or other identifiable points of entry for an intruder into the Ramsey home.​
* Patsy Ramsey told a guest at the memorial service on Dec. 29, 1996 that all the doors were closed and locked.​
* Police chief Mark Beckner told me that the northside [sic] door (the so-called "butler's pantry door") was opened by a crime scene technician early that morining [sic]. The police technicians went to work at the Ramsey house by 6:50 a.m. on Dec. 26, 1996.​
* Lou Smit himself told me a few months ago that he agreed that the "butler's pantry door" was probably left open by a police technician, just as Beckner said.​
I have to admit: at one time, I was taken in by the myth of the "open door" because it was reported in a newspaper story and it was touted by others. Since then, I have learned that there were no open or unlocked doors. Neither the police nor John Ramsey found any open doors. The mistaken notion about an "open door" got started after John Fernie noticed that the northside [sic] "butler's pantry door" was ajar. Fernie didn't know that the door was left open by a police technician." (From a Websleuths post by Masked Man dated August 20, 2001)​
BBM​

So, again - just more Smit/Ramsey spin. All the doors were closed and locked per JR that night/morning.
 
kanzz said:
The following is pasted from the linked page I posted yesterday (post #177)
[ http://solvingjonbenet.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-lou-smit-show.html ]
Smit's butler door story, which gave rise to a major "urban myth" on the internet, is particularly disturbing, as once again he is very clearly stretching the truth to suit his "clients." Here's a more complete picture from reporter and insider Frank Coffman, known on the forums as "Masked Man." Coffman is by no means a member of the BORG persuasion, and has enthusiastically defended both Ramseys. Hopefully this will put that particular urban myth to rest forever:

There was NO open door at the Ramseys' [sic] house on the morning of Dec. 26, 1996. John Ramsey himself found all the doors closed and locked that morning. Here are the FACTS:​
* According to John Ramsey, ALL the doors were LOCKED. John Ramsey told the police that "I looked around the house that morning and... and all the doors were locked and I checked every door on the first floor... and they appeared to be locked." (Thomas, p. 172)​
* Sgt. Paul Reichenbach checked all the doors at the Ramsey house in the early morning of Dec. 26, 1996. He found no open doors and no signs of a break-in.​
* In June 2001, Linda Arndt testified at her civil trial that there were no signs of a break-in or other identifiable points of entry for an intruder into the Ramsey home.​
* Patsy Ramsey told a guest at the memorial service on Dec. 29, 1996 that all the doors were closed and locked.​
* Police chief Mark Beckner told me that the northside [sic] door (the so-called "butler's pantry door") was opened by a crime scene technician early that morining [sic]. The police technicians went to work at the Ramsey house by 6:50 a.m. on Dec. 26, 1996.​
* Lou Smit himself told me a few months ago that he agreed that the "butler's pantry door" was probably left open by a police technician, just as Beckner said.​
I have to admit: at one time, I was taken in by the myth of the "open door" because it was reported in a newspaper story and it was touted by others. Since then, I have learned that there were no open or unlocked doors. Neither the police nor John Ramsey found any open doors. The mistaken notion about an "open door" got started after John Fernie noticed that the northside [sic] "butler's pantry door" was ajar. Fernie didn't know that the door was left open by a police technician." (From a Websleuths post by Masked Man dated August 20, 2001)​
BBM​

So, again - just more Smit/Ramsey spin. All the doors were closed and locked per JR that night/morning.
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Thank you! Im still trying to figure out where the butler's pantry was. [emoji23] They had fancy names for a lot of rooms that weren't used as they were described. I kind of get tired of saying the wine cellar. We should be calling it a moldy useless room. I always thought in my mind that the butler's pantry area was at the spiral staircase area. I don't know why I pictured it in my head that way.

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PositiveLight said:
Thank you! Im still trying to figure out where the butler's pantry was. [emoji23] They had fancy names for a lot of rooms that weren't used as they were described. I kind of get tired of saying the wine cellar. We should be calling it a moldy useless room. I always thought in my mind that the butler's pantry area was at the spiral staircase area. I don't know why I pictured it in my head that way.

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Click to expand...
BBM

"fancy names for a lot of rooms" - That's the truth!

Here are a couple of images that might help:

http://i49.tinypic.com/14xz21v.gif

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3792&stc=1&d=1255459304
 
PositiveLight said:
Thank you! Im still trying to figure out where the butler's pantry was. [emoji23] They had fancy names for a lot of rooms that weren't used as they were described. I kind of get tired of saying the wine cellar. We should be calling it a moldy useless room. I always thought in my mind that the butler's pantry area was at the spiral staircase area. I don't know why I pictured it in my head that way.
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This is a hard home to figure out. The names of the rooms change depending on which source you're using. That adds to a lot of the confusion.

My vote for the most stupid add-on of the house is the butler's pantry. It's on the North side and built outside of the home's original brick. On one side are the stairs going up to a half-bath and the doorway to the basement. On the other side are stairs going up to the back hallway with the spiral staircase. The glass door to the outside doesn't match the architectural style of the house (if there is one). It's more of an office door with two large window panels on either side. They're clear and open without privacy. The stairs isolate this part of the house and the large glass windows, to me, feel like a serious security risk. Every time I think of it I feel uncomfortable. I would have felt that way even if there had never been a crime in this home.

The only purpose for putting this room down a flight of stairs is to allow the kitchen to keep its windows. If you were attempting to expand the kitchen out through that direction, you'd have to compromise the structure of the home. Either that or you'd have an opening that was limited to the width of the windows.

It's been mentioned that they needed to remove a lot of soil on that side of the home when they added the butler's pantry.

There's also a storage room that's only accessible from outside the home. It's like an outside shed attached to the home. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. I could imagine a homeowner storing gas for a line trimmer in such a place. Just what you need, an invitation for someone to put gas in a poorly ventilated space.

I think this home was built by Charles Manson.
 
I don't like it either. It always gave me the heebie jeebies watching the walkthrough vids. Even some of the pictures give off a sinister vibe due to their angles.
 
BoldBear said:
This is a hard home to figure out. The names of the rooms change depending on which source you're using. That adds to a lot of the confusion.

My vote for the most stupid add-on of the house is the butler's pantry. It's on the North side and built outside of the home's original brick. On one side are the stairs going up to a half-bath and the doorway to the basement. On the other side are stairs going up to the back hallway with the spiral staircase. The glass door to the outside doesn't match the architectural style of the house (if there is one). It's more of an office door with two large window panels on either side. They're clear and open without privacy. The stairs isolate this part of the house and the large glass windows, to me, feel like a serious security risk. Every time I think of it I feel uncomfortable. I would have felt that way even if there had never been a crime in this home.

The only purpose for putting this room down a flight of stairs is to allow the kitchen to keep its windows. If you were attempting to expand the kitchen out through that direction, you'd have to compromise the structure of the home. Either that or you'd have an opening that was limited to the width of the windows.

It's been mentioned that they needed to remove a lot of soil on that side of the home when they added the butler's pantry.

There's also a storage room that's only accessible from outside the home. It's like an outside shed attached to the home. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. I could imagine a homeowner storing gas for a line trimmer in such a place. Just what you need, an invitation for someone to put gas in a poorly ventilated space.

I think this home was built by Charles Manson.
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Hahahaha this is a great description! Thank you BB! Charles Manson [emoji23]
You know how there was mold in the wine cellar? I bet there was mold in a lot of other areas of the home like in the walls etc. That's probably why JonBenet stayed sick too.

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singularity said:
I don't like it either. It always gave me the heebie jeebies watching the walkthrough vids. Even some of the pictures give off a sinister vibe due to their angles.
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Agreed! Weirdest home I've ever seen and I love looking at homes for sale in different areas. This layout is ridiculous. I would constantly feel wide open for a break in. One of the housekeepers referred to the home as a rabbit warren. I think that's a great description. Honestly...I can't see why their home was on the home tours. I bet the new owners actually gutted the inside.

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PositiveLight said:
Hahahaha this is a great description! Thank you BB! Charles Manson [emoji23]
You know how there was mold in the wine cellar? I bet there was mold in a lot of other areas of the home like in the walls etc. That's probably why JonBenet stayed sick too.
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That's a really solid thought. I didn't think of it because I've mistakenly thought of white mold as less toxic, but that's not always true. There are different types of white mold and some are more toxic than others.
 
PositiveLight said:
Hahahaha this is a great description! Thank you BB! Charles Manson [emoji23]
You know how there was mold in the wine cellar? I bet there was mold in a lot of other areas of the home like in the walls etc. That's probably why JonBenet stayed sick too.

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Click to expand...

Mold is not common in Colorado b/c of the dryness of the atmosphere. Whatever mold was in that little room was because it was damp from a lack of ventilation and no light.

I suspect JonBenet had allergies to some of the local grasses and trees, but then some of her doctor visits could have been due to abuse by her brother.
 
What led me to believe this was no intruder...1. the note/especially the language and choice of wording. It 'sounded' so much like PR talking to JR, (imo), I could literally hear her tone and inflections. 2. ummm, how COULD this be an intruder kidnapping? with the victim being murdered and the body being left behind. (smh at the lunacy there, because then why oh why would the killer waste time writing a note? or at the least, why not grab it on the way out the door? because it's not like the thing was written ahead of time after all, so this can't be explained away by a kidnapping gone wrong...again smh at the lunacy). 3. JR 'finding' the body. sigh...even my daughter, (who was 9 when she heard about this case), rolled her eyes and thought he might have been deliberately contaminating the scene. 4. After seeing the pageant pictures and getting a glimpse at how JonBenet was sexualized, I realized this was not the typical upscale family and as a matter of fact, they were very dysfunctional so anything was possible.
 
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