Found Alive CA - Sherri Papini, 34, Redding, 2 November 2016 - #21

[lmadler]

Again, this is a forum to ask questions. Why do you question what other members are posting?

The thought came to me, as I was thinking about the kids not being picked up that day.

No, it may not solve the case. I was just wondering if there was a reason why they were in daycare if was not outside the home for work.

And, I got my answer.

I can ask questions too? No?

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[lmadler]

There's a big advantage between abducting someone off the road who could be noticed as instantly missing by kids at home and/or significant other versus knowing you could be hundreds of miles away that day before anyone notices SP is missing.

Yes. That does make sense

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[lmadler]

Agreed. So, if not random, then planned. If planned, there was a specific reason. The reason will be found from the areas I listed last night.

Then again, she could have ran or had lunch with hub. Where she was abducted at exactly has been disclosed?

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[SpanishInquisition]

To be perfectly honest, I have NO clue.
I am not certain the reason is even in that list

It seems to me, that her abductors were very careful about her not seeing them, which makes me think that the plan was always to release her
No matter what the reason for her abduction, and then release, the abductors went to great lengths and took great risks

If the ransom offer was real - which I discount - I took it as coming from drug money as you don't just have people who have 'high six figures' of cash just laying around. SP could have been kidnapped as collateral for either non-payment or non-delivery related to drugs, but those drug-related kidnappings are actually done in the US and are about the only common kidnapping-for-ransom that happens in certain parts of the US, like Phoenix. However, those sorts of kidnappings it's made very clear why the person was kidnapped, but SP would have a very good reason hiding that the Sinaloa cartel kidnapped her and describing them accurately. I just don't think this happened, but it could have happened as the Sinaloa cartel operates around there and would be a very good reason to not describe their identities and could explain where a large chunk of ready cash came from.

 

[rsd1200]

there are many kidnappings without demands for ransom. As long as the person was taken forcefully, carried a considerable amount of distance, and held against their will, it's considered a kidnapping.

An abduction is very similar, but doesn't need the holding against one's will element.

I don't think anyone's standard definition is all that correct in the SP case, unless she was raped, and we do not know that. Merriam's:

Abduction
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abduction

Kidnap
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kidnap

 

[AceDetective]

...
His statements seem consistent to me and the sheriff has not backed off on any details of the story. How many ways does he have to say it before others believe SP as well?

What he has to say is that there is evidence of an abduction. Saying there is no evidence that there was not an abduction is not the same thing.

 

[rsd1200]

rsd1200
Do your earlobes show when you cover your mouth and nose with the buff?

If I wore it as a half mask, where I just pull it up to cover my nose and mouth, part of my ears would show. The advantage to the Buff is you can wear it comfortably around your neck, then, when you need it, you could just pull it up over your nose and mouth. They could have had multiple piercings. I know women who have double or triple piercings, etc...going up the ear, and wear hoops in the first two or three. Those would show in the 2nd or 3rd holes, and possibly in the first hole of the lobe, depending on the size of the hoops.

 

[Skully]

I haven't read or followed this case, just read about what is posted here. I think that this was just about humiliation of a woman. She was pretty, blond, thin, had a good life, husband, home and liked her lifestyle. We live in a very political, us vs them time right now. The cutting of the hair, is to humiliate, to brand someone is to disfigure them for life with a humiliating message. I think she represented everything that those women were not. Or wanted to be. I think it was a hate crime. JMO

 

[Classy1]

If I were to list the items below in compiling a list of reasons for the event

sex trafficking
sex (other)
gang initiation
random grab
jealous rival
race-related

what other ones -- within TOS -- would there be to add?

Hate crime

 

[wfgodot]

I think she represented everything that those women were not. Or wanted to be. I think it was a hate crime. JMO

snip

You're basically saying minorities want to be white.

 

[rsd1200]

But
to who? And to settle what kind of score? It would have to be something really bad to go to those lengths and risk incarceration for decades. You could be right, but it seems like a really drastic move.

People have done worse to settle scores. As in murdering you and your family. This sounds personal to me. Someone on here mentioned that their family always shouted what Yolo stood for when they went through there. I think it was always planned to release her on Thanksgiving. Wonder if the town has any meaning? Yolo - You only live once. I realize it's a bit out there, but...everything about this is kinda out there.

 

[robthomaseyes]

I don't think anyone's standard definition is all that correct in the SP case, unless she was raped, and we do not know that. Merriam's:

Abduction
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abduction

Kidnap
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kidnap

Yes, and even merriam-webster implies ransom is not always used (as I said).

In any case andwithall
due respect, it's not merriam-webster's version that is going to be used by police in this case. It's statutory law.

 

[pulchrabelle]

I wanted to see how consistent the Sheriff's statements had been, so I put together a list of every interview I could find where the sheriff said he believes SP is telling the truth, along with the dates he said it and the links:

Nov 27, 2016

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...ted-no-reason-to-disbelieve-her-story-w452535

Nov 28, 2016

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...alif-mom-sherri-papini-dead-article-1.2889960

Nov 29, 2016

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sheriff-co...ls-sherri-papinis-condition/story?id=43840556

Nov 29 2016 Interview with People:

http://people.com/crime/sheriff-rev...mom-found-after-early-november-disappearance/

Nov 30, 2016

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article117934978.html#storylink=cpy

Nov 30, 2016

http://www.kcra.com/article/sheriff-to-discuss-new-details-in-sherri-papini-case/8384152

Dec 2, 2016

http://archive.redding.com/news/local/Shasta-County-Sheriff-disputes-hoax-story-404372706.html

Dec 9, 2016

http://people.com/crime/sherri-papini-missing-2016-timeline-abduction-return/

Dec 14, 2016

http://www.krcrtv.com/news/local/sh...aid-papini-case-still-high-priority/212230817

His statements seem consistent to me and the sheriff has not backed off on any details of the story. How many ways does he have to say it before others believe SP as well?

Why would he not believe it though. Do LE usually say that in kidnapping cases, just because some people on the Internet were disbelieving. Would the LE pander to the public or did they release conflicting stories/ideas in the first place? Were they not sure at first? Say somebody got kidnapped/tortured in Iraq, for example, the LE wouldn't keep iterating that we believe the victim is telling the truth. It wouldn't even cross the publics mind that it was a lie.

 

[robthomaseyes]

I don't think anyone's standard definition is all that correct in the SP case, unless she was raped, and we do not know that. Merriam's:

Abduction
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abduction

Kidnap
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kidnap

Yes, and even merriam-webster implies ransom is not always used (as I said).

In any case andwithall
due respect, it's not merriam-webster's version that is going to be used by police in this case. It's statutory law.
\http://www.lacriminaldefensepartners.com/violent-crime/kidnapping/

Ironically, I have an exam in Criminal Law on Tuesday...this will be on it. (and even though it's NJ law not, CA, they are virtually identical).

 

[robthomaseyes]

People have done worse to settle scores. As in murdering you and your family. This sounds personal to me. Someone on here mentioned that their family always shouted what Yolo stood for when they went through there. I think it was always planned to release her on Thanksgiving. Wonder if the town has any meaning? Yolo - You only live once. I realize it's a bit out there, but...everything about this is kinda out there.

Right.To settle
a score for something terrible done, I could see. I haven't heard of anyone saying she was a bad person. I can't believe that someone is going to torture someone b/c they are blond or sell n ice things on Etsy or make better pies than they do.

 

[robthomaseyes]

Why would he not believe it though. Do LE usually say that in kidnapping cases, just because some people on the Internet were disbelieving. Would the LE pander to the public or did they release conflicting stories/ideas in the first place? Were they not sure at first? Say somebody got kidnapped/tortured in Iraq, for example, the LE wouldn't keep iterating that we believe the victim is telling the truth. It wouldn't even cross the publics mind that it was a lie.

LEnever
panders to the public, as far as I can tell. They do often "pander" to people they think may be guilty, if only to give them a false sense of security so they will let their guard down and talk more.

Not that I believe it in this case.

 

[rsd1200]

If the ransom offer was real - which I discount - I took it as coming from drug money as you don't just have people who have 'high six figures' of cash just laying around. SP could have been kidnapped as collateral for either non-payment or non-delivery related to drugs, but those drug-related kidnappings are actually done in the US and are about the only common kidnapping-for-ransom that happens in certain parts of the US, like Phoenix. However, those sorts of kidnappings it's made very clear why the person was kidnapped, but SP would have a very good reason hiding that the Sinaloa cartel kidnapped her and describing them accurately. I just don't think this happened, but it could have happened as the Sinaloa cartel operates around there and would be a very good reason to not describe their identities and could explain where a large chunk of ready cash came from.

.
Idk, someone close to her could have liquidated something for some quick cash, or could have gotten a lien against something and had some ready cash to pair with the cash from the liquidated property, or lien money.

 

[Gardener1850]

What he has to say is that there is evidence of an abduction. Saying there is no evidence that there was not an abduction is not the same thing.

So you are saying you want him to use the word "evidence"? Is that what you mean? Because a few of those statements don't use the word evidence but he flat out states she was abducted (as if it is fact) and he says they are basing their belief of her statements on "info we've received". Here are the statements:

Nov 29 2016 Interview with People:
“But keep in mind too she had been abducted,” he says. “We don’t have any reason not to believe her. She was abducted held captive for three weeks and then released. Traumatized from the experience and then of course very emotional about being released and then being reunited with her husband.”

http://people.com/crime/sheriff-reve...disappearance/

Nov 30, 2016
"The interviews were very intense for both the investigators and for Sherri, due to her having to relive this traumatic event," Bosenko said. "She was cooperative and courageous during the interviews. She described a sequence of events to the best of her recollection. Remember, that she was held against her will and was isolated."
…
Sheriff Tom Bosenko said that investigators have no reason to doubt Sherri Papini's story, adding that they are looking for two Hispanic women armed with a firearm driving a dark-colored SUV.

http://www.kcra.com/article/sheriff-...i-case/8384152

Dec 2, 2016
Shasta County Sheriff Tom Bosenko is disputing a Huffington Post story posted late Friday that cites an unnamed source in his department as saying a hoax is not being "ruled out" in Sherri Papini's kidnapping investigation.
"Based on information we have, there's no reason to believe this is not legitimate," Bosenko said. "Since speaking to Papini, based on information we've received, we believe her. We believe that this was an abduction."

http://archive.redding.com/news/loca...404372706.html

JMO, but it's it even stronger of a statement for him to flat our say "she was abducted" and "we believe this was abduction" than to say "there is evidence of an abduction". "Evidence" can be faked or staged or misleading. He is flat out stating she was abducted and they believe her based on information they have.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, and even merriam-webster implies ransom is not always used (as I said).

In any case andwithall
due respect, it's not merriam-webster's version that is going to be used by police in this case. It's statutory law.

The term "kidnapping" will vary throughout the u.s. jurisdictions so I'd not put much stock on who is using which term, tbqh. I use the term kidnapping, personally, however, there was no ransom, I think they intended to always release her back to her spouse. However, it's not really going to bother me if someone calls it an abduction.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

.
Idk, someone close to her could have liquidated something for some quick cash, or could have gotten a lien against something and had some ready cash to pair with the cash from the liquidated property, or lien money.

It would be extremely difficult quickly getting "high six figures" in cash. If someone for instance sold their house for 'cash' a 'cash' transaction on a house doesn't actually involve the buyer having a Brinks truck arrive with bags of cash, but instead what that means is that the buyer doesn't have to go through a mortgage company that may disprove the loan, but instead would wire the funds to their account without risk of a mortgage company rejecting the deal. Short of high level drug deals, there's few ways you can quickly get hundreds of thousands of dollars in actual physical cash rather than in a check or wire transfer.