Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert

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It occurred to me while reading through a 2013 48 Hours article that perhaps she was with Peter Hackett when he called her mother and she died in his home later. Perhaps he either drugged her in some fashion or murdered her by strangulation, as the missing hyoid bone suggests. If her purse, shoes, and jeans were found a quarter mile away from her remains, I suspect one of two things happened. He was attempting to have sex with her at the time of her death and disposed of her body where it was found and threw her belongings into the marsh separately to get rid of evidence. My other thought is that she was indeed running from him and dropped things along the way. Maybe he was able to grab hold of her legs as she was running and she was able to shimmy out of her jeans but he eventually caught her and strangled her. I do believe he was involved in her death regardless of how she died and was found. Why else would he call her mother and then deny it, even when there was proof of it? This is the only way it makes sense to me.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hours-uncovers-missing-escort-shannan-gilberts-final-minutes/
 
JJBONES said:
It occurred to me while reading through a 2013 48 Hours article that perhaps she was with Peter Hackett when he called her mother and she died in his home later. Perhaps he either drugged her in some fashion or murdered her by strangulation, as the missing hyoid bone suggests. If her purse, shoes, and jeans were found a quarter mile away from her remains, I suspect one of two things happened. He was attempting to have sex with her at the time of her death and disposed of her body where it was found and threw her belongings into the marsh separately to get rid of evidence. My other thought is that she was indeed running from him and dropped things along the way. Maybe he was able to grab hold of her legs as she was running and she was able to shimmy out of her jeans but he eventually caught her and strangled her. I do believe he was involved in her death regardless of how she died and was found. Why else would he call her mother and then deny it, even when there was proof of it? This is the only way it makes sense to me.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hours-uncovers-missing-escort-shannan-gilberts-final-minutes/
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why would a missing hyoid bone suggest strangulation? did the killer went back, slashed her throat and took it out?
 
Let me clarify. The hyoid bone itself was not missing, but the great horns of it that connect to the neck were suggesting strangulation according to NY Chief Medical Examiner, Michael Baden. This is from a CNN article:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/12/us/new-york-shannan-gilbert-case/

When the body was discovered it was skeletonized. No way to accurately know what happened unless there were distinctive marks on her bones to suggest she was slashed as you have stated.
 
JJBONES said:
Let me clarify. The hyoid bone itself was not missing, but the great horns of it that connect to the neck were suggesting strangulation according to NY Chief Medical Examiner, Michael Baden. This is from a CNN article:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/12/us/new-york-shannan-gilbert-case/

When the body was discovered it was skeletonized. No way to accurately know what happened unless there were distinctive marks on her bones to suggest she was slashed as you have stated.
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but how can anyone infer that on a skeletonized body? it doesn't make sense to me. I feel like the Gilberts were being told whatever they wanted to hear.
 
Excellent points in this article. There should be no barrier to the police helping those in need. These are human beings, not disposable girls! We have to keep raising awareness of this unacceptable practice by the police and bring these victims to the public's attention. I was astounded to learn from The Killing Season that there are so many active serial killers in the U.S. and thousands of unidentified bodies and missing people each year. And worse was the human trafficking by long haul drivers. I think most people think human trafficking involves areas outside the U.S., but it is a game between people in our own neighborhoods and towns. Sickening. These poor girls/victims just break my heart. Sorry for the soap box rant.
 
LetThemEatCake said:
but how can anyone infer that on a skeletonized body? it doesn't make sense to me. I feel like the Gilberts were being told whatever they wanted to hear.
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This is Michael Baden, for Pete's sake. He isn't merely telling the Gilberts what they want to hear. This is an official report.

Though Gilbert's death certificate listed the cause and manner of death as "undetermined," an independent autopsy by former New York chief medical examiner Michael Baden concluded "there is no evidence that she died of a natural disease, of a drug overdose or of drowning."
"There is insufficient information to determine a definite cause of death, but the autopsy findings are consistent with homicidal strangulation," Baden wrote in the report released Thursday.
"Baden wrote that nearly all of Gilbert's recovered skeletal remains appeared normal but the "larynx was missing and only the body of the hyoid bone was found; the two greater horns of that neck bone were missing. These structures, the larynx and the hyoid bone, are often fractured during homicidal manual strangulation."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/12/us/new-york-shannan-gilbert-case/
 
Everyone is entitled to there opinion. I'd have liked a third person to do an examination myself, as I also lend to the idea that Baden is too quick to point to whatever the public want to hear. He's also not as spritely as he used to be. JMO
 
This quote is from a different thread but the subject is Shannan.
WINDSOR said:
Barbie,

It has always bothered me and unless it's eventually explained why, I can't understand why Michael Pak left without finding Shannan. He knew she was somewhere in this unknown community and he just left. Why would he leave her stranded on LI when she's from New Jersey? Could it just be a simple, he got worried after Gus told him he had called the police? Possibly/probably which is just awful.....

I believe MP left for one several reasons,
1) The Shannan 'problem' was taken care of. He was aware that she was not going to need a ride out of Oak Beach.
2) He had her in his vehicle and it was time to leave, especially before LE arrived.
3) He was told to leave, by somebody holding Shannan, and that his services were no longer needed.

To me, as SG's driver and protector, MP had no reason to leave Oak Beach unless he already knew her fate was sealed. That is so sad.
Click to expand...

Kolker's book illustrates that Shannan could be a difficult person to deal with. He also gives the story of Shannan telling her previous driver (right before Pak) that she would "find her own way home" and then she stiffed the guy out of his cut. That kind of behavior doesn't foster trust between escort and driver and word gets around. Look at the back and forth calls between Shannan and Pak, who was playing poker in his SUV outside of Brewer's when Shannan was inside working. Does this look like a friendly chat? No -- it looks like she was arguing with Pak. Pak later stated he argued with Shannan because he did not want to go to the CVS pharmacy for her because he didn't know the area. You think this might make Shannan a tad mad at him?

Again, it's his version but it makes sense to me. He was summoned to the house by Brewer to get Shannan out, she was hysterical, Pak tried to calm her down, she ran out of the house, Pak tried to find her, she ran again from him, Pak learned from Coletti that he'd called 911 and police were on their way.

Facts:
1. Pak was a felon. He was currently driving around a prostitute (illegal). Police were on their way.
2. The exit out of Oak Beach is only a few yards from where Pak's SUV was stopped at Coletti's house.
3. Shannan had once stiffed another driver and found her own way home -- and it appears she's doing the same to Pak.

What is the obvious choice for Pak? Keep in mind -- at this point -- he's worried about his own skin, not Shannan's.

To skedaddle makes perfect sense.

LISK Gilbert calls 4-30, 5-1 from 48 Hrs screenshot.jpg
 
Facts:
1. Pak was a felon. He was currently driving around a prostitute (illegal). Police were on their way.
2. The exit out of Oak Beach is only a few yards from where Pak's SUV was stopped at Coletti's house.
3. Shannan had once stiffed another driver and found her own way home -- and it appears she's doing the same to Pak.


A) Park had been driving prostitutes as an occupation and there is no law in NY against driving prostitutes, so he did not fear the Police because of that issue. What crime were police going to charge him with? He had no reason to fear the police on your first point.

B) So the exit being close was more important than driving his friend Shannan? Shannan and MP had worked together numerous times previously, they had more than a business relationship. MP also knew Shannan's boyfriend Alex Diaz.
Had to be some powerful reason for MP to leave without her.

C) Shannan had not ever stiffed MP, and remember MP was the one who made the appointment in Oak Beach. What motive had Shannan not to pay MP if he got her the business? There is no way you can assume that MP knew Shannan had stiffed a driver previously. Shannan had no reason to stiff MP as there was no alternative method for her to return home. No taxi stand in Oak Beach, no buses or subways in Oak Beach. Shannan knew she was isolated in Oak Beach and must had a very powerful reason not to go with MP. MP must of had a very compelling reason to leave Oak Beach without her.

The simplest reason MP left without Shannan, was he knew she was not leaving Oak Beach ever.

My opinion only.
 
WINDSOR said:
Facts:
1. Pak was a felon. He was currently driving around a prostitute (illegal). Police were on their way.
2. The exit out of Oak Beach is only a few yards from where Pak's SUV was stopped at Coletti's house.
3. Shannan had once stiffed another driver and found her own way home -- and it appears she's doing the same to Pak.

A) Park had been driving prostitutes as an occupation and there is no law in NY against driving prostitutes, so he did not fear the Police because of that issue. What crime were police going to charge him with? He had no reason to fear the police on your first point.

B) So the exit being close was more important than driving his friend Shannan? Shannan and MP had worked together numerous times previously, they had more than a business relationship. MP also knew Shannan's boyfriend Alex Diaz. Had to be some powerful reason for MP to leave without her.

C) Shannan had not ever stiffed MP, and remember MP was the one who made the appointment in Oak Beach. What motive had Shannan not to pay MP if he got her the business? There is no way you can assume that MP knew Shannan had stiffed a driver previously. Shannan had no reason to stiff MP as there was no alternative method for her to return home. No taxi stand in Oak Beach, no buses or subways in Oak Beach. Shannan knew she was isolated in Oak Beach and must had a very powerful reason not to go with MP. MP must of had a very compelling reason to leave Oak Beach without her.

The simplest reason MP left without Shannan, was he knew she was not leaving Oak Beach ever.

My opinion only.
Click to expand...

Prostitution is illegal in New York. Here is the definition of promoting prostitution:

S 230.15 Promoting prostitution; definitions of terms.
The following definitions are applicable to this article:
1. "Advance prostitution." A person "advances prostitution" when,
acting other than as a person in prostitution or as a patron thereof, he
or she knowingly causes or aids a person to commit or engage in
prostitution, procures or solicits patrons for prostitution, provides
persons or premises for prostitution purposes, operates or assists in
the operation of a house of prostitution or a prostitution enterprise,
or engages in any other conduct designed to institute, aid or facilitate
an act or enterprise of prostitution.
2. "Profit from prostitution." A person "profits from prostitution"
when, acting other than as a person in prostitution receiving
compensation for personally rendered prostitution services, he or she
accepts or receives money or other property pursuant to an agreement or
understanding with any person whereby he or she participates or is to
participate in the proceeds of prostitution activity.

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article230.htm#p230.15


Not only was Pak committing a crime by driving Shannan to Oak Beach, he was probably violating his probation – which could easily put him back in jail. A felon has every reason to fear getting himself into further trouble with the criminal justice system – and, of course, he knew what he was doing was illegal. The “powerful reason” Pak left Oak Beach was to avoid having any conversation with the cops that were on their way.

Shannan and Pak had a working relationship – that is clear. But just because someone is in a working relationship with an escort does not mean they “are friends”. You have no idea if they had “more than a business relationship” or if Pak was the person who arranged the date with Brewer. Brewer responded to Shannan's Craigslist ad.

Pak stated he argued with Shannan that night and the number of phone calls in rapid succession, as documented, would support his assertion.

While John Ray paints Shannan as “high class” – Kolker gives a more “rounded” illustration of her and that includes stiffing a driver. I stand by my assertion that “word gets around”. You ask “What motive had Shannan not to pay MP if he got her the business?” OK, it’s called greed – especially when rent is due on May 1 – that exact day. Shannan had no idea where she was so she won't know no buses or subway were available. And you think a street-smart girl with hundreds of dollars in her pocket wouldn't just call a cab?

You are suggesting that Shannan didn’t want to leave with Pak because he was trying to kill her. Aside from the fact there is no evidence to support this, there is also no motive for a felon (not exactly the ideal candidate on a job application) would want to kill off his income stream. Nor is there motive for Pak to sit in the car for 3 hours waiting for Brewer to finish with Shannan just so Pak can kill her in Oak Beach. And if that was his intention -- don't you think things may have changed after Pak realized 911 was called by Shannan and then again by Coletti? A felon is also going to be extra cautious about gated entrances and cameras. And police are coming. Doesn't exactly sound like ideal circumstances to carry out a murder.

Again, the simplest explanation for Pak to leave without Shannan is that it was 5:00am, he’s tired, cops are on the way, he's a felon driving around a prostitute (ILLEGAL) and – look – there’s the exit.
 
Neptune said:
A felon is also going to be extra cautious about gated entrances and cameras. And police are coming. Doesn't exactly sound like ideal circumstances to carry out a murder.

Again, the simplest explanation for Pak to leave without Shannan is that it was 5:00am, he’s tired, cops are on the way, he's a felon driving around a prostitute (ILLEGAL) and – look – there’s the exit.
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So scared he abandoned his money maker.

Too bad he couldn't have foreseen Brewer's "story".(he didn't hire SG for sex)... thus, he could have said he was just driving a friend to visit a lonely guy (no prostitution involved) ;)

But, speaking of security cameras... Anyone want to refresh my memory on what supposedly happened to the Oak Beach entrance gate videos stored on the hard drive?? Were police too tardy in the investigation to find them?


"Although the videotapes are taped over every 24 hours, the videos are also stored on a hard drive."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...peter-hackett/feed/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
 
Do you know for sure MP made the appointment with Brewer? If so I wonder if MP had ever brought other girls other than Shannon to Brewer..girls who also never left Oak beach
 
fred&edna said:
So scared he abandoned his money maker.

Too bad he couldn't have foreseen Brewer's "story".(he didn't hire SG for sex)... thus, he could have said he was just driving a friend to visit a lonely guy (no prostitution involved) ;)

But, speaking of security cameras... Anyone want to refresh my memory on what supposedly happened to the Oak Beach entrance gate videos stored on the hard drive?? Were police too tardy in the investigation to find them?


"Although the videotapes are taped over every 24 hours, the videos are also stored on a hard drive."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...peter-hackett/feed/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Click to expand...
I do think in the case of MP you've got to put yourself in his position that night. I try to before jumping to conclusions. My personal view is the same as the poster above, there is more than probable cause for MP to abandon Shannan IF she was known to have these kind of episodes. I don't think that in itself makes him a lousy person. Obviously his choice of occupation does, and I think that clouds a lot of peoples judgements.

In regards to the security tapes, my personal belief is similar to the 911 calls. The LE has it, but there is a reason why its not being released. My left field theory on that is the only thing I can think of why that would be the case. That someone in Oak Beach doesn't belong there. Someone the locals may know as one name, but outside OB he's known as someone else who may be in WP. And with the release of the 911 tape, will come a name which will need to be redacted as he may be named by SG and visible on the tapes. The release of the tapes will lead to questions of "who is SCPD protecting?"

Just my thoughts.
 
Shouldn't MP and JB be charged with murder if they were both committing a crime and Shannon died during or as a result of their criminal activity.
 
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