Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #10

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Bartholemeus said:
That's all well and good but;

1. As papertrail said "left for dead" is an Aussie term that comonly refers to being abandoned rather than literally left dying
2. The victim ran through the cemetery, across Smyth Rd and down Monash. Hardly the actions of someone near death
3. The CSK used a hood on the KK victim suggesting he didn't want to be identified because he had no intention of murder
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A victim doesn't need to be near death for a charge of attempted murder. Prosecution need to prove intent, which is what makes the charge so difficult to prove. In theory, a victim could be uninjured. An example is an offender trying to kill someone with an axe. They swing the axe but completely miss the intended victim. If police found a note written by the offender saying "kill *advertiser censored* on *advertiser censored* date with axe", that could be attempted murder.
 
Ksks said:
A victim doesn't need to be near death for a charge of attempted murder. Prosecution need to prove intent, which is what makes the charge so difficult to prove. In theory, a victim could be uninjured. An example is an offender trying to kill someone with an axe. They swing the axe but completely miss the intended victim. If police found a note written by the offender saying "kill *advertiser censored* on *advertiser censored* date with axe", that could be attempted murder.
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What? People have been saying because one media outlet used the words "left for dead" then it's likely she was badly injured. Someone was even opining she dug herself out of a grave. Now you're arguing it from the other side. Is there any reason you appear to be arguing for the sake of arguing?

How about we just run with the most likely scenario as determined by the available evidence. Constantly bringing up scenarios that while possible, are very unlikely, is silly. IMO.
 
Ksks said:
A victim doesn't need to be near death for a charge of attempted murder. Prosecution need to prove intent, which is what makes the charge so difficult to prove. In theory, a victim could be uninjured. An example is an offender trying to kill someone with an axe. They swing the axe but completely miss the intended victim. If police found a note written by the offender saying "kill *advertiser censored* on *advertiser censored* date with axe", that could be attempted murder.
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Thank you. That makes sense.

To me, the whole premise that a journalist would use the term 'left for dead' in the colloquial sense is flawed. Journalists don't write in ockerisms when they're reporting on a serious crime like that. They use plain language. jmo
 
SherlockSleuth said:
Someone the other day mentioned an ignore button... I can't find it. Anyone care to point me in the right direction?
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Forum Actions » General Settings » Edit Ignore List » Add a Member to Your List...
 
Bartholemeus said:
What? People have been saying because one media outlet used the words "left for dead" then it's likely she was badly injured. Someone was even opining she dug herself out of a grave. Now you're arguing it from the other side. Is there any reason you appear to be arguing for the sake of arguing?

How about we just run with the most likely scenario as determined by the available evidence. Constantly bringing up scenarios that while possible, are very unlikely, is silly. IMO.
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I wasn't giving any opinion on any of the victims. I was giving a generalised comment that attempted murder can't be discounted just because a victim may not be near death.

I agree that some of the assumptions and theories on here and other threads are wildly hypothetical. But if we rely only on the available evidence, there is not much to go in. What's available evidence? We know the media isn't reliable. Even today's article about the car contains inaccurate information. If the only available information is that released by WAPOL, and WAPOL have made some awful errors of judgment, then no one can make any assumptions at all.

The beauty (and downfall) of a sleuthing forum is that there will be a mix of theories and assumptions, not all of which we will agree.
 
it could be the alleged karrakatta perpetrator hooded the victim because he didn't want to see her face thus taking her humanity away from his conscience.
 
janwa said:
Charged, went to trial, sat there smirking, found guilty, appealed, got off on a legal technicality. one of the witnesses (evidence against another media/music colleague was about this 11 yr old boy he used to drag around everywhere calling him his girlfriend.) Very strange case or was it par for the course
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I now recall reading about and researching this many years ago and previously researching the name of who we are talking about on the internet

Wonder if he was a Freemason?
 
I always wondered about Gerard Ross and his disappearance and murder in 1997 same year a CG. Then to find out his parents holiday home was 20 minutes drive from Rockingham. Just a theory.
 
I've followed this case and have watched many crime stories in general. I always had theories. Was it 2 men, was it one person with martial arts or combat skills and training and my 3rd assumption he was just a big man in size. 9 months ago I took my mother to Karrakatta cemetery. She's had some friends pass away so for a visit and as I drove down one of the roads this man was walking up towards me. But not only was he looking down he was deliberately looking down and to his left. I actually stared this person down and he finally looked up at me and I saw his rough age and build and said that's him. (may sound crazy) When this alleged guy got arrested I kept going back to that incident and I'm convinced it was him. I wonder and a theory if after his marriage broke down he was getting bored and coming out of his retirement. As someone posted he may of been coming home early morning in one of his last messages, so was he on the prowl and again may of already struck.
 
I was surprised to read a year before Julie Cutler went missing another lady Sally Greenham went missing 1997 Adelaice Tce. Kerry Turner all on a road down Armadale way as a option. Another thing I always thought regardless of all these locations they were not that isolated. I'm sure a predator could of found women in a safer more secluded area for himself. I say still besides the time of night their still would of been regular cars passing by. Another with the Claremont era was their was a police station a stones throw down the road. Did he have knowledge of it's operating hours? So it appears in all these cases including Gerard Ross their was a element of risk and the same crimes could of found safer locations. The alleged incident in Huntingdale shows no fear factor.
 
If the mystery man turns out to be the alleged. It will be another case of bad policing by WA Police. Their was no logic in them not releasing the footage. They said they didn't want us to focus on just him. But rather chase up calls about their strange neighbor. Then they wanted us to focus on just him. The Mystery Man in itself says volumes. Most people who go out clubbing if they don't go with friends they meet up with friends. So that means Mystery Man attended alone for every person their that night came forward. If he was with one of them or met one of them they would easily say oh looks it's Jo blow. But again bad policing and if he would of been indentified another one may still be with us.
 
Cut the snark and ridicule toward other members. No more warnings !!

Posts have been removed. You know who you are.
 
So pleased to see they have his car from those years, you beauty! Crossing everything that it helps their case immensely.

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In light of the Chain of custody issues alleged by Bret Christian in the Post Newspaper article I'm not surprised that WAPOL are being extra careful about making Subjudicial commentary. I think this will be the first area that the defence bring up in court
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jam sandwich said:
Yes incredible work and shows you how much we don't know. The article says the car was seized the same day as BE's arrest...they were really zooming in on this suspect. Well done and luckily DoT still had ownership records to trace and the car hadn't been scrapped. I reckon he's gone as in BE!
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I wonder if they are finding and testing all the cars BE has had access too over the years.
KK Van?


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Ruffy1976 said:
I always wondered about Gerard Ross and his disappearance and murder in 1997 same year a CG. Then to find out his parents holiday home was 20 minutes drive from Rockingham. Just a theory.
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Gerard's parents were staying at a holiday house in Rockingham but don't recall it to be 20 minutes from Rockingham. I believe the pine forest location he was found at off Stakehill Road was about 20 minutes from Rockingham.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...a-boy-gerard-ross-murder-20160522-gp0wyd.html
 
firestarter said:
I wonder if they are finding and testing all the cars BE has had access too over the years.
KK Van?


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maybe the Karrakatta victim had mistaken a holden stationwagon as a panel van or commercial van it would have been quite dark in Rowe Park. she was quite young and it is possible her vehicle knowledge was not perfect. Given the horrendous crime committed upon her I have no doubts she would have been severely traumatized.

Hey wait the VS series 1 was not released until April 1995 right. So it is highly likely BRE had access to another telstra vehicle prior to the VS series 1 and that may have been one of those courier type vehicles with either a side opening to access rear or rear opening doors and she has mistaken this van for a panelvan. Did Tesltra have panelvans in their fleet prior to Feb 1995 ?

BRE hardly seems the 'type' to me to personally own a panelvan.
 
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