Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #21

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otto said:
The youngest child saved his and his mother's life by waking up and fussing.

"I immediately saw pools of blood and hand marks of blood on the wall."
...

"The Crown said DNA evidence from the missing family members was found on a saw and meat hooks, and bones and a tiny tooth were discovered in a large burn barrel.

A mapping plane that flew over the property also took photographs that show three bodies in the grass, according to the Crown's opening statement. Alvin and Kathy were lying face down, according to the prosecution. "You will also see a small figure curled up on the grass," said Faulkner. "The Crown says this is Nathan."
...

Nathan asked if he could stay for a sleepover that night at his grandparents' house, and Jennifer and her youngest also decided to stay, according to her evidence. But when the one-year-old woke up in the middle of the night, she scooped him up and drove home, leaving Nathan sleeping with his grandmother."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...in-kathy-liknes-murder-trial-begins-1.3936820
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I was wondering if DG would have still proceeded with his carnage if there had been an additional 2 individuals there that night, but I suppose, unfortunately, there is no reason to think that he wouldn't have. This is 'out there', but for those that believe in things spiritual.. could make one wonder if the 'baby' sensed something and wouldn't calm down.

I can't imagine the guilt that so many people must be left with. JO for leaving her son there instead of taking him home with her. Perhaps RO for not encouraging NO to go to the zoo with he and his other son instead of attending the 'estate sale'. Allen for introducing DG to his father in the first place. Potentially Patti for just simply being related to the perp?

I wonder why the Crown is speculating that the 3 were killed at the acreage as opposed to at the L home.

What an unbelievable stroke of luck that there would be film of the 3 lying on the property in Airdrie. How can one possibly have a defence for this?
 
LoisLane said:
I find this statement strange. Breakdown of what?

@nancyhixt
Allen says the working relationship ended when #Garland didn't answer his phone when Alvin had a break down and needed help
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Based on quote from other reporter, sounds like this was a breakdown of his vehicle.. but I could be wrong..
 
Jay78 said:
Based on quote from other reporter, sounds like this was a breakdown of his vehicle.. but I could be wrong..
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That's an odd reason to end a working relationship.
 
otto said:
The side door - where Garland likely entered the property - leads into the room with the pull out couch. The blood was on the headboard and nearby nightstand in both the spare bedroom and the master bedroom (on the second level). My impression is that everyone was sleeping upstairs when Garland entered the property and that is where they were attacked.

We need to keep in mind that the house was a split level. If the basement is level 1 (furnace, etc), the side door, family room, garage is level 2, the main door, kitchen, dining, living room is level 3, and the bedrooms, office were level 4.
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It is possible Garland went straight upstairs thinking they would all be up there. Would he need to walk through the room with the pull-out couch to go upstairs? Was there discussion or information of a break-in in the basement window?
 
I just can't believe how much new information (for most of us) we received today in the opening statement. Both about the crime and about the evidence to come.
I also can't get over how much worse this all is than we knew.
Thank God for social media.
 
LoisLane said:
It is possible Garland went straight upstairs thinking they would all be up there. Would he need to walk through the room with the pull-out couch to go upstairs? Was there discussion or information of a break-in in the basement window?
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Yes ... if he entered through the side door, he would have been within a few feet of the sofa and have walked past Kathryn sleeping there ... that's why I think she and Nathan went to the upstairs bedroom when Jennifer left.

Police looked at a window on the North side of the house, but we don't know anything about that yet. Even if the suspect did enter through the basement window, he had to walk past the sofa to go upstairs.

Blood on both beds in both upstairs bedrooms suggests that someone was attacked in each of the beds.
 
otto said:
Yes ... if he entered through the side door, he would have been within a few feet of the sofa and have walked past Kathryn sleeping there ... that's why I think she and Nathan went to the upstairs bedroom when Jennifer left.

Police looked at a window on the North side of the house, but we don't know anything about that yet. Even if the suspect did enter through the basement window, he had to walk past the sofa to go upstairs.

Blood on both beds in both upstairs bedrooms suggests that someone was attacked in each of the beds.
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Based on your floorplan would you enter the side door into a landing with stairs going up and another set going down? Or do you walk right into the living room with the sofa bed?

Would the side entrance be considered the 'mud room' as JO described today?

I'm not sure why Kathy and Nathan would move upstairs. It seems like Nathan was asleep around the time JO left the home which was between 10:45-11:00 pm. Maybe KL would have left Nathan to sleep and moved herself upstairs. Although, she probably would have stayed close to him in case he woke in the night.
 
LoisLane said:
That doesn't seem like much blood. It is not a pool of blood and is more smeared. I wonder which bedroom this is.

ETA.. looks like it would be the front bedroom and leads to the deck.
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calgary floorplan 1 copy.jpg

My guess is that it is the master bedroom at the back of the house - simply because there appears to be patio doors leading to a balcony, and my impression was that the balcony at the front of the house relates to the office.
 
musicaljoke said:
J O'B was a very brave woman to walk through the house. I imagine she was so frantic to find her dear little son and parents that she gave no account to the danger that she may have been in herself.
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She was with her younger son when she came to pick up Nathan. Very scary and sad
 
LoisLane said:
Based on your floorplan would you enter the side door into a landing with stairs going up and another set going down? Or do you walk right into the living room with the sofa bed?

Would the side entrance be considered the 'mud room' as JO described today?

I'm not sure why Kathy and Nathan would move upstairs. It seems like Nathan was asleep around the time JO left the home which was between 10:45-11:00 pm. Maybe KL would have left Nathan to sleep and moved herself upstairs. Although, she probably would have stayed close to him in case he woke in the night.
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The side door leads into what I would call the family room. I wouldn't call it a mud room - more like a back door area, but that is probably what she means by 'mud room'. Crossing the family room, there is a short stairwell leading up to the kitchen, and another stairwell leading down to the basement. There's also an entrance/access to the garage on that level.

I think the son had his bedroom in that basement - along with the usual furnace, hot water tank, and electrical.

After going up the short stairs to the kitchen, a hard right 180 degrees is the stairs leading to the upstairs bedrooms and office.
 
calgary floorplan 2.jpg

The green arrow is the side door leading to the family room. The bedrooms are on the right side (South) upper floor in the image, and the kitchen, dining, living is on the left (North).
 
JO testified of Nathan wearing his cousin's pink pajama's that night but IIRC the Amber Alert said he could be wearing blue shorts, and a peach top. So I wonder if the pajama's were recovered in the home or his day clothes were missing they assume he would be wearing them.

Meghan Grant
@CBCMeg

Jennifer #Garland trial testimony: sleepover Nathan's idea. Nathan wore his female cousin's fleecy pink PJs. Jennifer giggles at this detail

ETA.. I see now Nathan had worn peach shorts and a blue shirt that day. Thanks Jay78.
http://globalnews.ca/news/3172718/h...ouglas-garland-accused-in-nathan-obrien-case/
 
otto said:
The side door leads into what I would call the family room. I wouldn't call it a mud room - more like a back door area, but that is probably what she means by 'mud room'. Crossing the family room, there is a short stairwell leading up to the kitchen, and another stairwell leading down to the basement. There's also an entrance/access to the garage on that level.

I think the son had his bedroom in that basement - along with the usual furnace, hot water tank, and electrical.

After going up the short stairs to the kitchen, a hard right 180 degrees is the stairs leading to the upstairs bedrooms and office.
Click to expand...

I believe we had a photo at one point of the living room showing the staircase you described along with the sofa and maybe the dumbbell as well. It must have been from the kijiji ad for the estate sale.
 
Jay78 said:
Check this story for a picture of the basement pull-out bed as it was found--doesn't appear to be any blood near there:

http://globalnews.ca/news/3172718/h...ouglas-garland-accused-in-nathan-obrien-case/

edit: this article also shows the burn barrel and kitchen area of liknes' house..
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I see pink fabric to the left of the bed, I wonder if those were Nathan's pajama's. Maybe he was hot and took them off before falling asleep. I also see a more modern looking weight. I can't tell which doorway leads where but may be able to compare to another photo if I come across it.
 
That final photo of Kathryn and the two grandsons is killing me
 
LoisLane said:
I see pink fabric to the left of the bed, I wonder if those were Nathan's pajama's. Maybe he was hot and took them off before falling asleep. I also see a more modern looking weight. I can't tell which doorway leads where but may be able to compare to another photo if I come across it.
Click to expand...

Well spotted. Certainly at least the top or bottoms.
 
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