Questions you'd like answers to...

[ZoriahNZ]

Really? IDI cant be discussed here? I thought the rule was you cant name a person suspect unless they are suspected by a LEA. Just curious.

It pays to read the rules and stickied posts of a forum before commenting:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-The-3-People-in-the-House-when-JonBenet-Died

 

[TeaTime]

Why was there a wood block at the top of the door at all? There was a door knob and PR said the door dragged on the carpet which means it didn't swing open. They stored junk in there, just like everywhere else in the basement so the whole "so the kids wouldn't get in it" doesn't fly. Plus, the kids were in, the block didn't stop them from getting in there.

It would stop someone from getting out. Hmmm.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I think the body was always in the WC but was hidden behind some things, such as those screens and this is why FW didn't see it when he opened the door.

It's all BS. PR said that she sent FW down to the basement for wine just days before the murder, he would know where the light switch was and if he needed it to see into the space, he would have flipped it on. I think JR went down there and moved the body into a more visible position but not from another room, car trunk or crawl space - just out from behind whatever was in front of it.

Sure, that's what PR said, but she and JR had already started throwing the Whites under the bus at that point, why not try to link him to the wine cellar prior to JB's body being found there? After all, she was well aware at that point that people (including her own stepson) found it hard to believe a stranger could find such an obscure location in their labyrinthine house. And if she sent him down for more wine, it's possible the lights were already on - we have no way of knowing if he'd ever flipped the switch or not.

According to ST, who interviewed Fleet extensively, FW stated he did not know where the switch was.

It was totally dark inside, and when he could find neither of two light switches, he closed the door, relatched it, and went back upstairs. He never saw JonBenét.

Kolar, who had access to FW's statements to police, also described him not finding the switch.

Unable to locate a light switch for the windowless room, White failed to see a blanket on the floor that wrapped the body of JonBenét.

I agree that she was in the room the whole time and possibly moved to be more visible later but I don't see any reason to assume FW was lying when he (apparently) told police he couldn't find the switch.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Really? IDI cant be discussed here? I thought the rule was you cant name a person suspect unless they are suspected by a LEA. Just curious.

Haha, Tricia recently set down that rule. I'm sure someone will link to the post in question soon! Now we only discuss the three people in the house that night.

With that in mind, welcome to our new poster Salamander23. I don't want to discourage you from posting and reading here but just as a heads up, the IDI pickings here are slim to none, so if that's a theory you want to explore in more detail you may want to check out other forums (like on Reddit) to discuss that. Even without the Ramseys-only rule it's all RDI posters on this forum anyway. Again, I hope you stay, I just wanted you know why you won't have much luck discussing IDI here. [emoji846]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[digginin]

what I mean is: I don't think it is a heart. there are vertical lines at the ends!!!!!! clearly there is also a stick man, head arms and legs there! No feet, no fingers, no face so that is why I said. if she was right handed, she could have drawn it herself...PR, no not at all. She did not raw it. My thought could still be the yanking or throwing of JB and that's why no bleeding. Yes the bed's soiling looks like her jamies. They could even have thought she had concussion an by checking later, found she was dying so they heartlessly finished the job. BKY haD to be ushered away from the media. SHE WAS YANKED AND THREW AGAINST SOMETING - BKY COULD'VE PUSHED HER AND TOLD PR SHE HAS NOT MOVED. SO TO BED WITH HER, COMATOSED BODDY FLUIDS LEAKING - NEARLY DEAD AND THE REST WE ALL KNOW. THEY DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BASHED IN SKULL AND WERE NOT PREPARED FOR THAT ONE AT ALL. NOT THE TORCH... MAYBE A VANITY SLAB OR KITCHEN TABLE SLAB

 

[BoldBear]

Why was there a wood block at the top of the door at all? There was a door knob and PR said the door dragged on the carpet which means it didn't swing open. They stored junk in there, just like everywhere else in the basement so the whole "so the kids wouldn't get in it" doesn't fly. Plus, the kids were in, the block didn't stop them from getting in there.

It would stop someone from getting out. Hmmm.

Sigh. This is an old house. The block was on the door and before the carpet was put down. This is an old carpenter's trick. My grandfather used to use it. If you have something like a pile of coal or whatever, it's just a way to stop the door from moving. If the latch was broken or the door was from some other project and you didn't want to do all the work on the latch, a simple rotating block will do the job. It was probably that way when they moved in and wasn't a priority to change.

 

[BoldBear]

what I mean is: I don't think it is a heart. there are vertical lines at the ends!!!!!! clearly there is also a stick man, head arms and legs there! No feet, no fingers, no face so that is why I said. if she was right handed, she could have drawn it herself...PR, no not at all. She did not raw it. My thought could still be the yanking or throwing of JB and that's why no bleeding. Yes the bed's soiling looks like her jamies. They could even have thought she had concussion an by checking later, found she was dying so they heartlessly finished the job. BKY haD to be ushered away from the media. SHE WAS YANKED AND THREW AGAINST SOMETING - BKY COULD'VE PUSHED HER AND TOLD PR SHE HAS NOT MOVED. SO TO BED WITH HER, COMATOSED BODDY FLUIDS LEAKING - NEARLY DEAD AND THE REST WE ALL KNOW. THEY DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BASHED IN SKULL AND WERE NOT PREPARED FOR THAT ONE AT ALL. NOT THE TORCH... MAYBE A VANITY SLAB OR KITCHEN TABLE SLAB

The shouting is really annoying. You're not going to convince me of anything by shouting.

 

[WhereAreTheyNow]

Haha, Tricia recently set down that rule. I'm sure someone will link to the post in question soon! Now we only discuss the three people in the house that night. <snipped for brevity>

Personally I believe RDI. But I am struggling to understand this new rule since a former prosecutor (Lacy), the original prosecutor's lead investigator (Smit), a federal appeals court judge (Carnes) and a handful of Boulder police (per Kolar's and Thomas' books) believe (or believed in the case of Smit) IDI. This remains true regardless of how much we try to discredit each of them.

Not disagreeing with anyone, just borrowing the above bolded sentence to make an observation.

 

[BoldBear]

1. Who wrote the note?
2. Why is the name "Jonbenet" absent from it?
3. What does SBTC stand for? (I'm familiar with most ideas but am not satisfied)
4. What is the most conclusive evidence of a sexual assault... just curious because this area gets pretty murky and I'm not sure I've seen the conclusive proof even though I think it did happen.

First off, I'm not hard RDI or IDI. The case is so full of contradiction I can never seem to decide... Interested in all hard evidence. I'm currently interested a little more in IDI theories.

[Snip]

I have a lot more to say! but tho is my very first post so I'll stick to the above questions and my current feeling that IDI.

You posted good questions. When I first came here I read some threads beginning to end and that included the IDI thread. That's not here any longer. I don't know why, but there was a lot of hostility occurring between the two groups. I believe that understanding IDI is an important part of understanding all of the details of this case. Honestly, if you don't know the intruder arguments, you won't understand why they fall apart. Even the RDI theories have their flaws, but it all boils down to having no solid intruder evidence. There was a boot print that could have belonged to Burke or one of the investigators. There was a hair that was later determined to belong to Patsy. Palm prints belonged to the family. The handwriting is too damn close to Patsy's. The language used is educated, christian based, organized and contains family details. There's nothing that was found from the outside to commit this crime. Yes, the tape across her mouth was unsourced and so was the rope, but that doesn't prove it came from outside the house.

I suggest you find a group like reddit to go over the intruder stuff. Either that will answer your questions or you'll find the intruder theories hollow.

You're last question about sexual assault is open to interpretation. The three main theories are self inflicted (possibly masturbation but unlikely), douching or sexual abuse. Read-up on the issue. There are some good arguments here that I won't reexplain. Simply put, there was some injury that couldn't have come from a bubble bath (oh lord). Yes, a bubble bath was actually suggested.

 

[WhereAreTheyNow]

Why didn't the killer place JB's arms by her side before wrapping her in the white blanket?

 

[SerenitySprings]

#4, imo. That FW didn't see JBR's body troubled him and gave him great grief, but I find it understandable. He opened the door but didn't turn on the light. Nobody else opened the door.
I've never believed that FW was sent to that room for more bottles of wine during the party on the 23rd OR that wine was ever kept in that room for that matter. (It would make much more sense to keep the spare wine in the garage.)

Also, several witnesses have said the Ramsey's never kept wine down there because they weren't drinkers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[BoldBear]

Also, several witnesses have said the Ramsey's never kept wine down there because they weren't drinkers.

21 Well, one evening, John and I just
22 sat down with a glass of wine and, you know,
23 boom, boom, boom, you know, all things.

12 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay. You know, it wasn't
13 like a full-blown wine cellar, but we kept a couple
14 boxes of wine in there. And I want to say that -- I
15 don't remember whether it was the night of the 23rd,
16 that party or some party we had, I remember somebody
17 saying we are out of red wine. And I said please
18 (inaudible) to or something. But at some time, please
19 go to the basement to get some more red wine, but he
20 would know where that was.

They weren't serious drinkers. John would have a beer as well, but it wasn't like they didn't drink at all. If it was more than that, the public never knew.

 

[andreww]

Personally I believe RDI. But I am struggling to understand this new rule since a former prosecutor (Lacy), the original prosecutor's lead investigator (Smit), a federal appeals court judge (Carnes) and a handful of Boulder police (per Kolar's and Thomas' books) believe (or believed in the case of Smit) IDI. This remains true regardless of how much we try to discredit each of them.

Not disagreeing with anyone, just borrowing the above bolded sentence to make an observation.

Lacy was a nut job, that's no secret. Smit was hired specifically to pursue the intruder theory. He'd come to that conclusion without reading the case file. And Carnes never heard BPDs version of events as DH was simply incompetent. You also have to wonder how many people were swayed by Lacy's bogus DNA findings?

This case is a lot like the OJ case in that as time goes by the answer becomes clearer and clearer. OJ did it, his supporters are gone, and so did one of the Ramseys. They all played a part in covering it up and they had a great deal of help from the DAs office. BPD was always on the right track, and all the Ramseys friends have all come to that same conclusion. So if you want to go by people's theories on the case, go by the people that actually investigated it. Listen to Kolar, listen to Thomas, and listen to people like FW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BoldBear]

OJ did it? I didn't get the memo.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Why didn't the killer place JB's arms by her side before wrapping her in the white blanket?

That is a very valid question.

My theory is that JBR already had rigor mortis by the time the person wrapped her body. That person was either JR or PR.

I believe that by the time the couple (probably Patsy) found her daughter, she was already completely dead and beyond help. Too late to call 911.

 

[kanzz]

Why didn't the killer place JB's arms by her side before wrapping her in the white blanket?

This appears to be a part of the staging, along with the tape over her mouth and binding around her wrists, to look as though an IDI. I think it happened soon after JB died and when she was placed in the WR on her back (as lividity demonstrates) and before rigor set in.

 

[Pursuit of Truth]

In regard to the poster on "what does SBTC stand for"

My gut feeling is that S.B.T.C. stands for "Saved by the cross". This was a religious family. They were thinking they were protecting their son, but knew they were sinning in the lying and withholding of info (Im a believer that BDI as an accident in a fit of rage and then "played" with her trying to see if she'd wake up by poking her with the train tracks, then tying her up and dragging her around. I believe the sexual "trauma" came from either aggressive wiping after a bed wetting earlier in the night OR the kids were prone to "playing doctor" as kids sometimes do. Whatever the case, I believe the Rs loved their kids but at the same time had an image to protect and a son they didn't want removed from the home. I have way more to add to my theory and probably should post in the theories thread.

Anyways, the SBTC is their way of telling themselves and the world that they knew what they were doing was wrong but also believe their sin have already been paid by way of the cross.

Just my thought.

 

[Userid]

Why didn't the killer place JB's arms by her side before wrapping her in the white blanket?

Good question. One explanation could be that, whoever staged her this way, wanted it to be apparent that she was gone. Meaning, if she was wrapped inside a blanket with her arms at her sides, it wouldn't be immediately apparent that she was deceased -- the duct tape and the clearly-bound arms make it apparent. If not for those two characteristics, whoever eventually found her wouldn't immediately know that she was dead; she could have just been sleeping without them.

I say this as an RDI'er. My best guess, is that JR wasn't originally planning on finding his daughter; he was planning on someone else finding his daughter. But when LA told him to search the house, and FW volunteered to go with, this changed his plan. For whatever reason, in the now, he didn't want FW to find the body with him in the near vicinity. I think he panicked. He wanted someone else to find her initially, but once he and FW were in the exact vicinity she was in, he panicked and went straight for the body. His nerves were probably through the roof when he walked downstairs with FW, and he knew he couldn't hide them anymore without looking suspicious, so he made the split-second decision to just "discover" the body himself, masking his already-crazy nerves.

 

[Miz Adventure]

This appears to be a part of the staging, along with the tape over her mouth and binding around her wrists, to look as though an IDI. I think it happened soon after JB died and when she was placed in the WR on her back (as lividity demonstrates) and before rigor set in.

Part of the staging to look as though an IDI? I don't follow that. Why would keeping her arms above her head look as though an IDI?

:thinking:

Does it not make a bit more sense that JBR had rigor when she was wrapped and the person who did the wrapping was unable to move her arms so was only able to wrap her body?

 

[Userid]

Part of the staging to look as though an IDI? I don't follow that. Why would keeping her arms above her head look as though an IDI?

:thinking:

Does it not make a bit more sense that JBR had rigor when she was wrapped and the person who did the wrapping was unable to move her arms so was only able to wrap her body?

It certainly makes sense from the standpoint that, if possible, her arms would have been tied behind her back, to make it appear more convincing.