Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

[elastic]

certainly not discounting your comment - however if someone pulled a car up next to you and jumped out in a hurry and rushed at you, would you not scream, run and/or fight back? An unconscious person is very awkward to man-handle in a good situation never mind when worried about being seen on a main road. Have you ever tried to move a very drunk person, extremely difficult when they are a dead weight...just IMHO.
Hard to explain why your car doors won't open to other staff and you boss when using what would of been a pool car, it just doesn't fit when you apply common sense.
What would have happened if they were knocked out (as you suggest) but come to in transit, all car windows are made very easy to break from the inside for safety reasons...this could be something the police could look into, did the vehicle he was using back then require any window replacements. This would be logged with Telstra fleet maintenance.

Certainly not trying to offend you, just applying common sense to a horrible scenario.

ps. Bertie's were a couple as I suggested earlier. And at least one lady was sober enough to ring a cab, can't say if they had heels or not...most ladies take them off late at night, and neither of us were there.

The victims were tiny. And even tinier when compared to Bradley Edwards. I personally could have moved the victims effortlessly and i am sure Bradley being twice my size could do it with one hand behind his back.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[elastic]

Since following this thread I have always wondered why the perp appears to have gone to so much trouble to hide/remove his DNA but just left the ladies bodies so visible. ie. Why not bury them, Perth also has some vast bush land, why so close to the road?
If BRE is the perp and was from the outer suburbs, would he not have some knowledge of the WA bush, why leave (and my apologies to any victims family) a body only 200M (as reported in the west Australian) from the road if he did?

It doesn't really make sense, just trying to apply some common sense.

Time. Maybe the longer you spend digging and discarding the body the more likely it is you may get caught.

As serial killer Jesperson used to say the best way to dump a body is to put distance and time between you and the body. So dump and run in a secluded location was his best option.



Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[elastic]

Some valid points, yes.

If he stalked the Claremont area looking for an easy target, why be lazy in the disposal? Serial killers are generally intelligent if not highly intelligent so why, is all I am asking.
why drive an hour or so from the abduction site to only dump a body 200m from the road? Why not drive deep into the bush? Or the pine forests up in that region?
it would be like trying to find a needle in a hay stack at 1am, but any semi-intelligent person would realise that the sun rises every day, so why only just of the road and not deep in the bush?

my purpose is to promote thought and discussion not argue, so I welcome your comments.
just FYI I would never leave a friend in a taxi unattended in that condition for multiple reasons.

Maybe its smarter to dump and run than be standing on the side of the road for 4 hours whilst you dig a grave nearing sunlight. Just maybe.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[CP345]

Some valid points, yes.

If he stalked the Claremont area looking for an easy target, why be lazy in the disposal? Serial killers are generally intelligent if not highly intelligent so why, is all I am asking.
why drive an hour or so from the abduction site to only dump a body 200m from the road? Why not drive deep into the bush? Or the pine forests up in that region?
it would be like trying to find a needle in a hay stack at 1am, but any semi-intelligent person would realise that the sun rises every day, so why only just of the road and not deep in the bush?

my purpose is to promote thought and discussion not argue, so I welcome your comments.
just FYI I would never leave a friend in a taxi unattended in that condition for multiple reasons.

I'm not going to attempt to delve too deep into the psyche of a serial killer but I think what appears to be careless or lazy disposal of a body is quite common to serial killers. I can think of any number of killers over the years who've disposed of bodies in this way.

I agree with you true blue that thinking with a rational mind there are infinite places you could dispose of a body which would in all likelihood never be found. What we don't know (or at least I hope nobody here does) is how a serial killer feels when they have a dead body on their hands. I'd think the desire to get rid of it quickly and get away would be pretty strong. You said yourself a couple of posts back that moving a drunk person is hard. Equally, I think that moving a dead person 200m off a road would be hard. Through a forest might be damn near impossible.

I realise pre digging or preparing a site also seems a rational thing to do. Again, I'm unsure of the mindset in these abductions. Were these urges something the CSK was ashamed of and trying to resist? If so maybe there wasn't that level of premeditation in each crime.

Lastly, I don't think we can ignore the possibility that he wanted the bodies to be found. Perhaps he did take great care when disposing of SS. Six months later or so she was out of the news to a certain degree. That's not to say she was forgotten. We all know news moves on quickly from the most horrific of incidents. That's when he took JR. Obviously she was found and there were two massive news events. Once with the disappearance and once with the discovery. Only theorising or speculating if you like but maybe it was the attention that floated his boat.

Then again maybe he was just a lazy *advertiser censored*. Look at his front yard in Kewdale.

All of this post just my thoughts and unqualified opinions to attempt to explain your question.

 

[elastic]

Can someone post where there is an article stipulating mutilation of the victims because the ONLY article i can find is the one where the police have denied any mutiliation and put to bed these rumours. They also mentioned that the skulls were not rammed with spikes. I am asking because posters are posting it like there are articles alluding to mutiliation when there clearly isnt and this again is a misrepresentation of the KNOWN facts or media articles. Why are the mods letting these same posters post the same unsubstantiated facts without any basis?

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[CP345]

Can someone post where there is an article stipulating mutilation of the victims because the ONLY article i can find is the one where the police have denied any mutiliation and put to bed these rumours. They also mentioned that the skulls were not rammed with spikes. I am asking because posters are posting it like there are articles alluding to mutiliation when there clearly isnt and this again is a misrepresentation of the KNOWN facts or media articles. Why are the mods letting these same posters post the same unsubstantiated facts without any basis?

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

As far as I'm aware any talk of mutilation is rumour only. Nobody has ever provided evidence for it.

 

[elastic]

New article

" The State Opposition says Colin Barnett is a “despicable little man” after the Premier claimed Labor would have walked away from the police’s job of investigating the Claremont serial killings.
Speaking yesterday about damning police survey results in The West Australian, Mr Barnett said people should also look at police successes such as the arrest of the alleged Claremont serial killer.
“The arrest of an alleged perpetrator of the Claremont murders (is) something that the Labor Party walked away from,” Mr Barnett said. “Remember Michelle Roberts criticising the police for not doing the job — well, they did the job.” "

https://thewest.com.au/politics/sta...-cops-spray-for-claremont-claim-ng-b88370578z



Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[elastic]

As far as I'm aware any talk of mutilation is rumour only. Nobody has ever provided evidence for it.

I know. I am surprised posters can state it like its fact so willingly. Yet i coped a ban for upsetting one of the thread derailers feelings.

Even when asked to provide the source the poster referenced Debbie Marshalls hopeless book. Didnt reference a page or nothing. Just claimed the book as a reference. Its not even in the book btw. Its just misrepresentation again and again of the known facts.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[mandy.maree]

Some valid points, yes.

If he stalked the Claremont area looking for an easy target, why be lazy in the disposal? Serial killers are generally intelligent if not highly intelligent so why, is all I am asking.
why drive an hour or so from the abduction site to only dump a body 200m from the road? Why not drive deep into the bush? Or the pine forests up in that region?
it would be like trying to find a needle in a hay stack at 1am, but any semi-intelligent person would realise that the sun rises every day, so why only just of the road and not deep in the bush?

my purpose is to promote thought and discussion not argue, so I welcome your comments.
just FYI I would never leave a friend in a taxi unattended in that condition for multiple reasons.

I believe it was only pure luck that both were found. People wandering slightly off track a bit. They weren't found for quite some time.
I think he knew the areas weren't commonly visited. He didnt need to put much effort to hide them.



Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Lots of posters here are assuming here that the 'mutilation' was done by the CSK.
Leaving a human body uncovered in the bush allows access to the corpse for various animals, like foxes and rats.
Doesn't take much imagination!

 

[mandy.maree]

Lots of posters here are assuming here that the 'mutilation' was done by the CSK.
Leaving a human body uncovered in the bush allows access to the corpse for various animals, like foxes and rats.
Doesn't take much imagination!

Agreed. Also theres the horrified reactions from the people who found the bodies ("whoever did this is one sick f##k")
Well. .of course they are. Without any mutilation needed.

Clearly how they were left however indicated that it was no accidental death.
Maybe still had ties on hands or clothes removed etc.

The police have specifically said no mutilation occurred so I'm trusting that for now.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Nugget77]

I know. I am surprised posters can state it like its fact so willingly. Yet i coped a ban for upsetting one of the thread derailers feelings.

Even when asked to provide the source the poster referenced Debbie Marshalls hopeless book. Didnt reference a page or nothing. Just claimed the book as a reference. Its not even in the book btw. Its just misrepresentation again and again of the known facts.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Have to agree with you about your point generally. I think there are some careless people here that flippantly state things as fact and then when asked to prove it just say 'oh that was my opinion'. It really doesn't help things. I think before people post they need to either source their information and link to it (as the rules stipulate) or pose the statement as a question or let us know that it's just them throwing some thoughts out there for consideration.

I think speculation is fine...as long as it's framed as just that.

 

[elastic]

Lots of posters here are assuming here that the 'mutilation' was done by the CSK.
Leaving a human body uncovered in the bush allows access to the corpse for various animals, like foxes and rats.
Doesn't take much imagination!

If you imply mutiliation you are implying the act was carried out by the perpetrator. Nothing more, nothing less. Once the body is dumped a form of decomposition sets in. At this point whether or not the body is mutilated is irrelevant, this is after the fact.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[BReVeTTe]

if you were intoxicated and tired and preoccupied with "getting home" - one "clout" would be enough to knock you off your already "unstable feet" or high heels - IMHO it does not take long to render someone silent. Takes 2 secs to stick a tea-towel in someones mouth..

agree, but no need to even be intoxicated ...just offguard, petite, perhaps just 'too trusting', and ultimately overpowered.
i'll also reiterate what has been said by others, that JR as last seen, did not appear at all to be intoxicated.
here's some theorized food for thought.
a chloroform/ether rag - not as out of the question as some might think - could have been used IF an initial blitz. where could it be obtained? "i" wouldn't know ...but those who might put this type of substance to abuse are definitely out there and 'they' do know.
Drug Facilitated Sexual Assault (DFSA) is by no means a new trend ... for information's sake, i can tell you, that australia wide (2013) only 30 standard drugs were routinely screened in suspected cases of DFSA (probably still applicable) and that list does not include the most likely to be used, fast acting, quickly eliminated, club type drugs (some of which have been available & abused since the 80's) which makes DFSA very difficult to prove and, for a survivor, making every second count in the aftermath.
there is somewhere in the vicinity of a 93% failure rate in substantiating DFSA ...which leaves alcohol still mistakenly believed to be the most commonly used substance in both alleged&suspected cases of DFSA, particularly when admitted to have been consumed consensually, but not forgetting it can also be unknowingly poured surreptitiously ... and sometimes even 'force fed'
_
given a time lapse until the discovery of the CSK's known victims, for consideration, i'd also like to re-speculate my theory of these crimes possibly not being finalised within the few short hours that most imagine. they may have been held captive for some duration.
only a confession would answer that.

a couple of "unvalidated" mentions i'v gleaned from past comments made concerning the discovered CSK victims are the possible 1) presence of alcohol(?) 2)drugs(?) (not sure of source, but possibly the book Devil's Garden(?)

this reminded me of SA's "family killings" (read more in the book "Young Blood"), where the pivotal of the deceased were found to have been given 'noctec'(chloral hydrate). some were said to have been lured into a vehicle on the premise of going to a party where there'd be drinks, drugs, basically whatever you want. once on board, the unsuspecting was offered an initial friendly, welcoming can of drink (sleeper laced) from an esky. one of the deceased was found 6weeks after his disappearance (off a bushwalk) and in his case, had been kept sedated, alive for a period of up to a month or more.


[emoji887]

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

If you imply mutiliation you are implying the act was carried out by the perpetrator. Nothing more, nothing less. Once the body is dumped a form of decomposition sets in. At this point whether or not the body is mutilated is irrelevant, this is after the fact.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

That's just your opinion
Decomposition does not account for the corpses being eaten by larger animals like foxes.

 

[mandy.maree]

KK rape- victim was blitzed and "left for dead" . Personally I think that implies she suffered some form of physical assault as well as the sexual.
The Church Lane assault in 1996 behind Club Bayview (where most CSK victims had been at some point in their night)-woman had her skirt ripped off and head bashed against wall before she fled (moo but I believe CSK is responsible ).

He is clearly capable of ambushing fast and violently stunning victims before they can scream.
He would have only got better at it - especially if some escaped previously...

JR certainly didnt look intoxicated. CG left her after work drinks within half hour or so. SS seemed to be making sensible decisions.

He definitely could have blitzed them all-even in such populated and busy seeming areas-there were still many isolated and dark areas nearby.
SS for one had just called a taxi-I dont see her taking a lift with a stranger when she had a booked taxi on its way.

Also if CSK was out offering lifts back then-surely some people would have declined and come forward about the strange man offering lifts at 2am


Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Regarding the state of the bodies:

"Childcare worker Jane was also found murdered last August.

She had been stripped naked and stabbed to death.

Her body was found in swampy bushland 40 miles south of Perth, three months after she vanished. "


"A 23-year-old labourer found her (Ciara) lying 20 yards from a pathway, covered in shrubbery.

Her clothes had all been stripped off and officers identified her by the jewellery she was wearing.

Police refused to confirm she had been raped and did not say how and when she died."



https://www.thefreelibrary.com/STRI...IPLE+KILLER+AFTER+MISSING+IRISH...-a061104395

Also please note the use of the word "DUMPED" in the web link and refer this to our earlier discussion of whether we should be referring to the place where bodies were found as the "dump sites".

 

[mandy.maree]

Regarding the state of the bodies:

"Childcare worker Jane was also found murdered last August.

She had been stripped naked and stabbed to death.

Her body was found in swampy bushland 40 miles south of Perth, three months after she vanished. "


"A 23-year-old labourer found her (Ciara) lying 20 yards from a pathway, covered in shrubbery.

Her clothes had all been stripped off and officers identified her by the jewellery she was wearing.

Police refused to confirm she had been raped and did not say how and when she died."



https://www.thefreelibrary.com/STRI...IPLE+KILLER+AFTER+MISSING+IRISH...-a061104395

Also please note the use of the word "DUMPED" and our earlier discussion of whether we should be referring to the place where bodies were found as the "dump sites".

"Her naked body was discovered near a popular fishing spot 40 miles from Perth "

Interesting. ..

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Spinnaker]

There has been a lot of chat between blitz attacks and other. My personal view is that the CSK utilised both.

There were obviously some blitz attacks in an opportunistic manner, however also feel that the CSK knew some of his victims as perhaps acquaitances. If we consider MM meeting JR, there appears to be recognition from JR (photo attached).

I have also attached a photo of BRE aged around 18. The 'boofy' hair looks quite similar with MM & BRE.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

http://casefilepodcast.com/claremont/

At approximately 19minutes in, speaker says that Jane's body was so badly decomposed she could only be identified by dental records.