CA CA - John Beck, 73, Alameda, 9 Feb 2016 #2

[drawthis]

Originally, I felt he had committed suicide and it wouldn't be long until his body was found. I live in the Bay Area, but not too familiar with where he was last seen. What are the chances he did end his life and just hasn't been found? It's so hard to fathom he would start a new life, leaving his family behind like he did. I am always such a Pollyanna - but what else could have happened at this point?

 

[1&2&3]

I did not realize there were two different systems. One by Beck and one by
Gravink and Hewitt.

I always read the three names together and thought it was one program. How do you sell two programs in one advertisement? Or am I totally off base tonight!

 

[katydid23]

Originally, I felt he had committed suicide and it wouldn't be long until his body was found. I live in the Bay Area, but not too familiar with where he was last seen. What are the chances he did end his life and just hasn't been found? It's so hard to fathom he would start a new life, leaving his family behind like he did. I am always such a Pollyanna - but what else could have happened at this point?

If he did kill himself, it seems so mean to do so, without leaving a note for his family. Would he want them wondering and searching for decades?

I think he would have been found by now.

I don't think he killed himself. I think he had some property in Belize or Peru, and he has started a new life for himself somewhere.

 

[Lilibet]

I did not realize there were two different systems. One by Beck and one by
Gravink and Hewitt.

I always read the three names together and thought it was one program. How do you sell two programs in one advertisement? Or am I totally off base tonight!

Ha! Yes you're off base. Understandably, because it's so confusing. Here's how it worked...(with a little editorializing)...

Gravink and Hewitt did not have a system to sell. They owned the two umbrella companies that marketed the separate Beck, Alexander and Paul scams/systems. All the money raised from the infomercials of these three men came to the Gravink/Hewitt companies: Family Products and Mentoring of America. People called the Family Products 1-800 number and bought the system they wanted with their credit card for $39.95 (and were unknowingly going to be charged that amount every month unless they opted out). Then Mentoring of America called these customers repeatedly to sell extra very expensive training by the system "guru." Gravink and Hewitt kept a percentage and paid the three men a percentage.

I expect that Gravink and Hewitt made the most money and that their share of the FTC judgement was the largest. But Beck's $113 million got the most publicity. Beck claimed that it was 90 times what he actually took home and that could be accurate. But he, along with Gravink and Hewitt did $113 million in sales/damage to consumers who bought his product. Even if he had made nothing, legally he was responsible for the damage his scam caused people.

Without the help of Gravink and Hewitt, none of these three men could have made much money actually selling their systems. I imagine that G and H looked around, saw these three guru guys giving advice online and approached them with this "opportunity." Predator meets prey. Unfortunately, the prey became the predator too by preying on gullible people with their dishonest informercials. The false statements came right out of Beck's (Alexander's and Paul's) mouth. They were not done with clever editing. And none of these men was naive, even though Beck's family portrayed him as a befuddled victim. Reading those court documents really made me mad!

I hope that makes more sense.

 

[fourcatsonepup]

Ha! Yes you're off base. Understandably, because it's so confusing. Here's how it worked...(with a little editorializing)...

Gravink and Hewitt did not have a system to sell. They owned the two umbrella companies that marketed the separate Beck, Alexander and Paul scams/systems. All the money raised from the infomercials of these three men came to the Gravink/Hewitt companies: Family Products and Mentoring of America. People called the Family Products 1-800 number and bought the system they wanted with their credit card for $39.95 (and were unknowingly going to be charged that amount every month unless they opted out). Then Mentoring of America called these customers repeatedly to sell extra very expensive training by the system "guru." Gravink and Hewitt kept a percentage and paid the three men a percentage.

I expect that Gravink and Hewitt made the most money and that their share of the FTC judgement was the largest. But Beck's $113 million got the most publicity. Beck claimed that it was 90 times what he actually took home and that could be accurate. But he, along with Gravink and Hewitt did $113 million in sales/damage to consumers who bought his product. Even if he had made nothing, legally he was responsible for the damage his scam caused people.

Without the help of Gravink and Hewitt, none of these three men could have made much money actually selling their systems. I imagine that G and H looked around, saw these three guru guys giving advice online and approached them with this "opportunity." Predator meets prey. Unfortunately, the prey became the predator too by preying on gullible people with their dishonest informercials. The false statements came right out of Beck's (Alexander's and Paul's) mouth. They were not done with clever editing. And none of these men was naive, even though Beck's family portrayed him as a befuddled victim. Reading those court documents really made me mad!

I hope that makes more sense.

Lilibet, thank you so much for reading the docs and taking the time to explain them to us!

Has anyone else seen JB's infomercial that has been posted to youtube? I would link but I am on my phone and don't know how. I watched a little bit of it... but JB is in it!

 

[Lilibet]

Lilibet, thank you so much for reading the docs and taking the time to explain them to us!

Has anyone else seen JB's infomercial that has been posted to youtube? I would link but I am on my phone and don't know how. I watched a little bit of it... but JB is in it!

Thanks! Here's a sampling for your viewing pleasure. The first one is full length with JB being interviewed. The others are very short samples in which he appears briefly.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxAp9abtueU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pqP7P3L4250

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GqiWUgSCdLo

But wait! There's more...

John Alexander infomercial

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_kEpl3pz63U

Jeff Paul infomercial...aka Cleavage Sells

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa5AM0F1f2g

And obviously people really did fall for this garbage.

 

[GigTu]

I wonder if he buried his portfolio of papers somewhere out on that point, for retrieval later...

 

[neesaki]

Thanks! Here's a sampling for your viewing pleasure. The first one is full length with JB being interviewed. The others are very short samples in which he appears briefly.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxAp9abtueU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pqP7P3L4250

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GqiWUgSCdLo

But wait! There's more...

John Alexander infomercial

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_kEpl3pz63U

Jeff Paul infomercial...aka Cleavage Sells

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa5AM0F1f2g

And obviously people really did fall for this garbage.

OMG, this is an outright in your face con game. He's sitting there deceiving the public without blinking an eye.

And thanks for the links!

Btw, in our county there are auctions of homes and properties due to unpaid taxes. But the auctions are competitive and there's no way one will ever buy a property for only the back taxes.

Also, he sure did age a lot over the last 8 years. JMO

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I used to buy tax liens years ago. In the state I lived in at the time, there was an annual auction of tax liens, and you could essentially pay the taxes due in exchange for the lien. Interest and penalties still accrued against the owner for the tax amounts, and when the owner eventually paid up, the lienholder would get their money back plus the entire amount of interest and penalties. Depending on how long it took the owner to pay the outstanding amount, we would get a return of 16 to 20%... which was the goal. No one wanted to actually own these properties, the vast majority were dumps, vacant land that couldn't be built on, etc. So you had to do a lot of research on the parcels beforehand to find out if there was a reason people weren't paying the taxes. Many were *always* up for sale because of inherent flaws... maybe a parcel that was way too small to ever build on, or on a flood plain or swamp (or actually under water), or part of a superfund site because toxic waste had been dumped on it. While there were some very nice houses, they were always paid off very quickly and so there was less $ from them. Most houses were in very bad shape. We always looked for lake access properties, because often these were inherited by out of state family who weren't using it (and so were sloppy about keeping up with the taxes), but didn't want a potential vacation home to be lost to taxes.

After a certain period of time, I forget if it was 3 or 5 years, if the taxes remained unpaid, the lienholder could foreclose on the property and take title to it. I'm only personally aware of *one* instance where a buildable lot was foreclosed on in this manner. In that case, the property had never been built on because the sewer line had to be run from across the street... not cheap, but very doable if you essentially got the land free. The lienholders gave the property to their daughter, who built a home on it (a low income single mother who probably never would have been able to own a home otherwise). The original owners had intended to pay the outstanding taxes, and inadvertently missed the deadline (they contacted the lienholder after the foreclosure wanting to buy the property back). So even in this one case, it was an unexpected oversight that allowed the foreclosure... definitely not something that was typical.

So a good way to lose $ if you don't do your research.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Lilibet]

Thanks for your insight about the process, Wylie. It certainly confirms the court's findings that the system Beck was selling was neither quick nor easy. People weren't told that most liens are sold in an annual auction, not just available all the time...until they forked over $39.95. It could work for someone with savvy and patience, like you and Beck, but not for the average person who bought the system. Beck himself admitted in depositions that it was difficult to make money! He mostly bought the liens on vacant land.

 

[neesaki]

Thanks for your insight about the process, Wylie. It certainly confirms the court's findings that the system Beck was selling was neither quick nor easy. People weren't told that most liens are sold in an annual auction, not just available all the time...until they forked over $39.95. It could work for someone with savvy and patience, like you and Beck, but not for the average person who bought the system. Beck himself admitted in depositions that it was difficult to make money! He mostly bought the liens on vacant land.

And obviously wasn't / couldn't make enough money that way, thus his entry into the racket of the John Beck Free and Clear system.

 

[rpgman]

And obviously wasn't / couldn't make enough money that way, thus his entry into the racket of the John Beck Free and Clear system.

exactly....what a fraud.

 

[nannymo]

Summary of court arguments Feb. 2015. Beck says he only licensed the use of his name and that the judgment was 90 times what he earned.

https://www.law360.com/articles/6198...in-to-9th-circ

If this were true that means he earned over a million dollars from the scheme. One could stash some money and live on an island a long time, yet John filed bankruptcy.

 

[neesaki]

Summary of court arguments Feb. 2015. Beck says he only licensed the use of his name and that the judgment was 90 times what he earned.

https://www.law360.com/articles/6198...in-to-9th-circ

If this were true that means he earned over a million dollars from the scheme. One could stash some money and live on an island a long time, yet John filed bankruptcy.

Seriously, especially if all is properties and his homes were purchased for only the taxes owed against them. That means he owned everything Free and Clear, which leads one to assume he had no debts. Free and Clear, right?

 

[neesaki]

Have I missed any news? I wonder if his family, or anyone, is even searching for him. I notice on the FB page there have been no posts since May of last year.

 

[katydid23]

Have I missed any news? I wonder if his family, or anyone, is even searching for him. I notice on the FB page there have been no posts since May of last year.

I think his family has finally accepted that he skipped out on them. :sigh:

 

[neesaki]

I think his family has finally accepted that he skipped out on them. :sigh:

I was thinking the same thing, it's sad but most likely true.

 

[nannymo]

I think his family has finally accepted that he skipped out on them. :sigh:

Or maybe they knew all along and pulled the wool over our eyes? Not blaming, just wondering if that could have been the case all along.

 

[Lilibet]

Or maybe they knew all along and pulled the wool over our eyes? Not blaming, just wondering if that could have been the case all along.

Apologies for the long answer. Your question made me want to go back and analyze the case again.

The thought that they knew all along crossed my mind later, but personally, I think his daughters were genuinely putting forth an unprecedented effort to find him. I don't think I'm aware of another family jumping in and using their skills and networking to pull out all stops like they did. We even helped with suggestions here on WS...that they actually used! I don't think it was an act.

But they were also in denial about the magnitude of what he had done to people, viewing JB as a victim of an overzealous federal government. So I think it took them awhile to realize that there was a possibility that he had either taken off or committed suicide. Their current silence indicates to me that they've accepted that he committed suicide. Or it means that they now know where he is.

The family friend who posted here made the point that he had already fulfilled most of the conditions of the bankruptcy and that it was on the verge of resolution. There was nothing to run away from at that point. By leaving or committing suicide, the bankruptcy was canceled, leaving his wife with fewer assets and much less to live on. I agree that leaving or suicide doesn't make sense from that standpoint.

The only way it makes sense to leave is if he had money stashed offshore that the Feds didn't know about. Either Gravink or Hewitt had done that, but it was discovered. JB had researched doing that, as I posted upthread awhile back. If he had money stashed offshore that he was afraid would be discovered, I can see him leaving the bankruptcy unfinished and taking off.

But where does that leave his wife? Did she know all this ahead of time? Could she join him after awhile? Would the government flag her ID in case she traveled? Could they hide out in the U.S. like Whitey Bulger did? How would he access the money? If he committed suicide, did he leave his wife instructions for accessing the money after things died down? Or did he just leave her in the lurch?

It's really impossible to know. I guess the simplest answer is that he'd had enough stress and and committed suicide regardless of the financial consequences for his wife. However we look at it, and whoever knows what happened, someone got ripped off. Ironic.

 

[nannymo]

Thank you Lillibet. I really don't feel like the family knew either. I didn't realize the bankruptcy went away with him gone. I thought she would still lose everything. I wonder if she is still living in the house?