Poll: was Patsy involved?

[BBB167893]

Fibers and the RN(if it will ever be proven that the fibers are hers and that she wrote the note) could only point that she was part of the cover-up,but evidence that she was the killer?I didn't see any.

Good point! That's essentially what Henry Lee said.

It's the same with the DNA and the intruder theory.

BTW,I was wondering,let's say that there will be a match someday and it shows the DNA landed there innocently .OH I SO wanna see what LE does next!

That could get interesting!

 

[AndHence]

The strongest evidence against any Ramsey is the evidence implicating Patsy. While BDI is now the leading theory, the strongest forensic evidence links Patsy to the cover-up at the very least. Fibers from her coat were found in key rooms and items associated with the murder/cover-up. While John and Burke were more likely to know how to make a Boy Scout toggle rope having both been Boy Scouts, it is curious that we find Patsy's coat fibers in the paint tote where the brush was taken to fashion the rope. The fibers are, logically, found on the garrote itself and the tape applied to JonBenet's mouth.

Oh, yeah: Patsy was the only person out of hundreds who could not be ruled out as the author of the ransom note. You know, that document found in the house where Patsy lived and was present while her daughter died and written with items belonging to and used by Patsy.

What are the statistical odds that the author of the ransom note would share several handwriting characteristics with the mother of the decedent let alone one of the three other people present in the house that night? Laughably small

 

[TeaTime]

AndHence - Cina Wong said there were 200 similarities between PR's exemplars and the RN, including the 8 different ways she wrote a lower case "a". Yeah, There is ZERO chance that she didn't write that ransom letter.

All they could say about the ransom letter was that it was sloppy and hence could not be PR's handwriting because as we have seen, her handwriting was an example of perfect penmanship. Not.

In 20 years, BR has still not read the ransom letter. He has spent no time looking for her murderer because 'other people are working on it'. JR stopped looking for the murderer after his CNN interview, 6 days after the murder, as did PR. They also took the opportunity to forgive the murderer as they demonized the police.

They reek.

 

[BBB167893]

The strongest evidence against any Ramsey is the evidence implicating Patsy. While BDI is now the leading theory, the strongest forensic evidence links Patsy to the cover-up at the very least. Fibers from her coat were found in key rooms and items associated with the murder/cover-up. While John and Burke were more likely to know how to make a Boy Scout toggle rope having both been Boy Scouts, it is curious that we find Patsy's coat fibers in the paint tote where the brush was taken to fashion the rope. The fibers are, logically, found on the garrote itself and the tape applied to JonBenet's mouth.

Oh, yeah: Patsy was the only person out of hundreds who could not be ruled out as the author of the ransom note. You know, that document found in the house where Patsy lived and was present while her daughter died and written with items belonging to and used by Patsy.

An admirable summation.

What are the statistical odds that the author of the ransom note would share several handwriting characteristics with the mother of the decedent let alone one of the three other people present in the house that night? Laughably small

I believe Speckin used the words "infinitesimal."

 

[sedndun]

So, I'm not saying this is a legit theory, but following some of the thoughts presented on this thread:
If Patsy did it all and acted alone, one would wonder why John would support her. This is what gives the BDI theory validity.
A quote many put a lot of weight into was something along the line if "if I ever lost Burke, I'd have nothing to live for."
This could be taken two different ways. As seems most obvious, it would mean having a guilty Burke taken away from her. But I think it could also mean Patsy being taken away from Burke, as he would still be lost to her.
Now what if she had done it all, but when John was brought in on it he began to see through the ruse? Whether intentional or by accident she says something along the lines of how she can't lose Burke and JonBenet, and he takes this to mean the Burke was the culprit. So Burke didn't do it, but that is in fact the safer option as far as the John/Patsy alliance goes. (Keeping in mind that there had still been issues with him so that this wouldn't seem completely impossible and that due to prior incidents they may have even know about him being too young to be charged.)
Not sure I'm explaining this well, but it's basically a shift from Burke did it to Burke the hapless pawn.

 

[Satch]

For a long time,

I thought John acted alone and Patsy was the cover-up,

But I just voted Yes to both Murder and Cover up for her. There is such a coldness and uncaring about both of them that I think more that she could have been involved. I can no longer say "no" with confidence that she was not involved. That could still be the case. I don't think we will ever really know. I am 100% convinced that John was involved. I think the poll should have had a question of "Not sure."

Satch

 

[Miz Adventure]

What would be the point of voting "not sure"? It would be like not voting at all.

 

[BoldBear]

I have a different theory that questions not if Patsy was involved in a cover-up, but when. At some point they were all involved in covering this up. It may just be a question as to what degree.

 

[UKGuy]

I have a different theory that questions not if Patsy was involved in a cover-up, but when. At some point they were all involved in covering this up. It may just be a question as to what degree.

BoldBear,
Assuming it was BR who redressed JonBenet, can you see the parents deliberately dressing JonBenet in BR's long johns as part of a staging plan?

Then the parents arrived late at the crime-scene, at some point they both agreed to re-arrange the crime-scene and remove incriminating evidence, they forgot BR's knife though.

Since they do not know everything that took place they can only explain away their own staging and offer stories about related evidence, e.g. the size-12's, or the broken window.

So maybe Patsy arrived first at the crime-scene, enacted some cleanup, then later JR who cleans up a little more, then they decide on the RN strategy, then later their respective version of events reflects their different arrival times>

IMO all three R's were directly involved in the death and subsequent staging.

.

 

[BoldBear]

BoldBear,
Assuming it was BR who redressed JonBenet, can you see the parents deliberately dressing JonBenet in BR's long johns as part of a staging plan?

Then the parents arrived late at the crime-scene, at some point they both agreed to re-arrange the crime-scene and remove incriminating evidence, they forgot BR's knife though.

Since they do not know everything that took place they can only explain away their own staging and offer stories about related evidence, e.g. the size-12's, or the broken window.

So maybe Patsy arrived first at the crime-scene, enacted some cleanup, then later JR who cleans up a little more, then they decide on the RN strategy, then later their respective version of events reflects their different arrival times>

IMO all three R's were directly involved in the death and subsequent staging.

You have a solid theory. I'm not convinced it was Burke.

Honestly, I don't think about the broken window much anymore. It stopped interesting me when I realized that it wasn't a point of entry. John can have his story that the glass was broken 6 months prior to the murder. He may have even staged it that night. It doesn't bring to light what happened in the house when JB was murdered. It's not even an interesting way to try to implicate John if he was trying to stage because, as staging goes, it was bungled.

The knife isn't an issue for me. A housekeeper takes a Swiss Army Knife away from a 9 year old boy. The boy thinks it's his property. Later, the knife winds-up somewhere else in the house. The housekeeper did a poor job of hiding it. Now, if we can connect it to the murder in some way other than proximity, then I'll be interested.

I threw away Occam's Razor a long time ago. I really hate shaving.

 

[Tssiemer]

So I'm in the BDI camp. But if Patsy really wanted to protect him, why didn't she falsely confess on her deathbed? That's what I woulda done to protect my child.


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[Miz Adventure]

BoldBear,
Assuming it was BR who redressed JonBenet, can you see the parents deliberately dressing JonBenet in BR's long johns as part of a staging plan?

Then the parents arrived late at the crime-scene, at some point they both agreed to re-arrange the crime-scene and remove incriminating evidence, they forgot BR's knife though.

Since they do not know everything that took place they can only explain away their own staging and offer stories about related evidence, e.g. the size-12's, or the broken window.

So maybe Patsy arrived first at the crime-scene, enacted some cleanup, then later JR who cleans up a little more, then they decide on the RN strategy, then later their respective version of events reflects their different arrival times>

IMO all three R's were directly involved in the death and subsequent staging.

I agree with all of that except your last paragraph. I don't believe the couple had anything to do with JBR's death - only the staging afterwards.

 

[Miz Adventure]

So I'm in the BDI camp. But if Patsy really wanted to protect him, why didn't she falsely confess on her deathbed? That's what I woulda done to protect my child.


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Although I don't have children I can't see myself confessing to a murder I did not commit, simply to stop the gossips harassing my son (who probably WAS the killer of my other child).

BR is probably having a great time now - getting rich without having to work for it. He's the one who (probably) should be confessing.

 

[UKGuy]

I agree with all of that except your last paragraph. I don't believe the couple had anything to do with JBR's death - only the staging afterwards.

Miz Adventure,
That was a lazy summary. I just assume everyone knows I'm promoting BDI All, with the parents doing a minimal staging?

I'd love someone to interview Kolar regarding BR's behavior issues. I'm guessing there will be medical records too?

A young boy does not suddenly enact a homicide with all the alleged artifacts, e.g. feces, soiled pajama pants, sexual assault, cleanup and staging, without something else going on for some formative period?

That is I don't think BR killed JonBenet as an uncontrolled impulse.

.

 

[BBB167893]

So I'm in the BDI camp. But if Patsy really wanted to protect him, why didn't she falsely confess on her deathbed? That's what I woulda done to protect my child.


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She may not have been able to speak. My mother couldn't talk when she was dying. Also, maybe the Lifetime movie was right: John was hovering like a shadow over her.

 

[Rott Mom]

Okay - sorry - IMO BR would have NEVER thought about re-dressing his sister. This screams to a parental involvement.

 

[Rott Mom]

Not to say BR killed her - YES, IMO, he did. I got sick when he was on video stating that he thought "someone took a knife out" and actually demonstrated what he thought happened to his sister.
Keep in mind, his knife was found at the scene.

 

[Miz Adventure]

She may not have been able to speak. My mother couldn't talk when she was dying. Also, maybe the Lifetime movie was right: John was hovering like a shadow over her.

Hovering like a shadow? That's a nice image. He was probably hitting the topless bars. (Yes, I'm a cynic)

I'm surprised John didn't tell the world that PR's last words were something like "John, please find the person who killed our daughter" before sinking back on her pillows.

 

[UKGuy]

Okay - sorry - IMO BR would have NEVER thought about re-dressing his sister. This screams to a parental involvement.

Rott Mom,
So explain why one the parents thought putting BR's long johns on JonBenet might represent fine staging, and that nobody would blink twice at the size-12's?

.

 

[AndHence]

Rott Mom,
So explain why one the parents thought putting BR's long johns on JonBenet might represent fine staging, and that nobody would blink twice at the size-12's?

.

The Bloomies remain one of the insoluble mysteries of the case. The redressing is certainly a RDI touch, but which one of them did it? Were they the only non-soiled panties in her drawer? Did someone select the Wednesday bloomies in a ham-handed attempt to cover up that the size 6 Wednesday bloomies were gone? Where did they go? Why did it take years for the Ramseys to 'find' the packet with all the size-12's? If the size 12's were grabbed in haste, is it more likely a male made this error? Surely Patsy, the member of the family who bought JonBenet's underwear, would know how ludicrous the size-12's would appear on her. I remember Steve Thomas posited that perhaps they were being worn over diapers -- there was a pack sticking out of a closet door in the hall when they inspected the house. Was JonBenet back in diapers around this time? I know her toileting regressed in the last two months of her life, so it's not unreasonable to assume the diapers were in use.