Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

[JoWa]

Thanks CSK?, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion as are we. The Accused is a very IT literate person and I have no doubt that there was/is an online footprint.

I also feel that the connection for JR and Karrakatta is a valid line of reasoning. Sorry, but I am going to still pursue 'thinking outside the box' at times. Sure beats the continual conversation on disputing the DNA evidence! Thank goodness there are some very knowledgeable people on here giving sound reasoning in response to these disputed theories.

I agree, if all connections between BRE aren't looked at we risk the chance of becoming Caphorn and singling in on what we want to be true. I'm not a fan of the Iona/Catholic link but I'm not about to rule it out as there are way too many coincidences to just ignore it.

I also agree that BRE will have an online footprint but it will be well hidden, perhaps on the dark web.

As for it having to be a blitz attack that is a profile more suited to a disorganised killer. From what we know BRE seems to have planned out his crimes to some degree, thus pointing to an organised killer who may have meticulously planned every detail, maybe even which victim.

While he may not have known his victims we must also look at him knowing his victims and also that he may not have been responsible for SS and many other links and theories as long as they are based on facts. To not even bother to look into them we do a disservice to the victims. New people look at WS all the time, maybe one of them will see some rehashed theory and it sparks a memory.



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[mandy.maree]

IMO opinion it stands to reason that the best forensic match regarding unadulterated DNA from the CSK will come from the 1988 Huntingdale attack.
The perpetrator is inexperienced, still in his teens and likely progressing from neighbourhood "snowdropping " to acting out a rape fantasy for the first time.
The silk kimono is likely a very well handled " aid" in the lead up to this event, with some speculation the offender may have been wearing it himself, or , attempting to force the victim to wear it.
Either way reports say the kimono was dropped as the attacker fled, following a struggle. and the alarm being raised.
After this even I think the CSK became a lot more careful with evidence he left with his victims, and it may have been eventual advancements in DNA testing that he could not have foreseen that have brought him undone in his circa1996 crimes.
However the best match to these1996 partial DNA samples may only have a "familial " aspect... i.e. it could be a brother, father, cousin...etc. Whereas the Huntingdale evidence is the definitive" clincher" for the case to be made that BRE was definitely present in that crime, and circumstantially likely present at the other crimes he has been charged with post 1988.
All JMO opinion and theory.

I'd assume he had the kimono over his face


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[Nugget77]

In all likelihood the Claremont Ghost Video & Tigermoth Video were done by attention *advertiser censored* and not by anyone that has anything with the 3 girls having been abducted & murdered. If the CSK had been in contact with newspapers and/or police then there may be some creedence to him leaving cryptic clues online. The fact is however the CSK did not want to be caught. he enjoyed his freedom and isn't stupid enough to have made videos. This is more the act of movie serial killers, only a handful of r/l have done such a thing.

Since day one people have been trying to compare the CSK to what they have seen in the movies, movie serial killers although based on real killers are not your average evil genius, mess with your head, leave clues kind of serial killer. 1st rule of serial killing #Don't get caught, how to achieve this? you don't kill people you have been in contact with previously, you don't leave cryptic clues e.t.c. It is the absolute randomness of a serial killer and his victim that allows a serial killer to allude law enforcement for so long.

Unfortunately with very few news reports and information people still continue to create their own. the thread turns into nothing but a pit of speculation in the absence of fact. I know it's good to think outside of the box, but some of these theories aren't even in the same room that the box is in.

I don't think the CSK had prior knowledge/meetings of his victims until leading up to the attacks, I don't think there was any ritual involved. I think the CSK was an opportunistic sexual predator whom more than likely blitzed his victims but possibly used a ruse to get them into his vehicle. He preyed on young women that were alone in a certain geographical area, this is about all these girls had in common, the "victim" type is nothing more than that because these girls didn't look like each other one bit.

Looking into things like a dido song etc is over analyzing things WAYYYY too much. especially when as stated above, the chances it was posted by the CSK is almost nil.

Best post on here in a while. Couldn't agree more. I think giving any credence to the Claremont Ghost Video and Tigermoth video is to just feed the ego of whoever posted it. It's not helpful and almost certainly not posted by the real CSK.

 

[Nugget77]

Thanks CSK?, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion as are we. The Accused is a very IT literate person and I have no doubt that there was/is an online footprint.

I also feel that the connection for JR and Karrakatta is a valid line of reasoning. Sorry, but I am going to still pursue 'thinking outside the box' at times. Sure beats the continual conversation on disputing the DNA evidence! Thank goodness there are some very knowledgeable people on here giving sound reasoning in response to these disputed theories.

I also agree with you that the JR/KK line of reasoning is worth a look. This is one of the more rational/reasonable lines of thinking outside the box. The Claremont Ghost/Dido/Tigermoth stuff is just in bad taste if you ask me. It's some sicko getting their kicks off the misery and suffering of others.

Also re: the Dido song. It was released in 2003. Are we saying that the CSK time travelled back to 1996 after hearing this song? Or that Dido is the CSK? Or that the CSK penned the lyrics for Dido? I'm really not clear on the relevance of the Dido song to our CSK selecting his victims.

 

[mandy.maree]

With only public holiday was Australia Day SS..
KK 1/2/95 (26/1/95); SS 26/1/96; JR 9/6/96 (2/6/96);
CG 14/3/97 (3/3/97) * brackets are closest public holiday

The Huntingdale rape was a day or two before Valentines Day
The next two may not be him:
1.The attack in Church Lane outside club bayview was day before Labour Day WA
2.There was another assault nearby on New Years Day


SS was taken on Australia Day
JR was day before public holiday (Queens Birthday )
CG was supposedly out celebrating St Patricks Day

They were all near public holidays or special occasions


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[SN76]

I'd assume he had the kimono over his face


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Or victim....

 

[Sloofski]

The Huntingdale rape was a day or two before Valentines Day
The next two may not be him:
1.The attack in Church Lane outside club bayview was day before Labour Day WA
2.There was another assault nearby on New Years Day


SS was taken on Australia Day
JR was day before public holiday (Queens Birthday )
CG was supposedly out celebrating St Patricks Day

They were all near public holidays or special occasions


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Queens birthday is last weekend of september in WA, not the same as east coast

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

The Huntingdale rape was a day or two before Valentines Day
The next two may not be him:
1.The attack in Church Lane outside club bayview was day before Labour Day WA
2.There was another assault nearby on New Years Day


SS was taken on Australia Day
JR was day before public holiday (Queens Birthday )
CG was supposedly out celebrating St Patricks Day

They were all near public holidays or special occasions


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PLEASE NOTE:
In 1996, Western Australia celebrated the Queens birthday on SEPTEMBER 30th and not on June 10th like the rest of Australia. This is because WA has another public holiday in early June for Foundation Day (WA state's foundation) and state government in WA decided it's pretty silly having two consecutive long weekends, so they moved queens birthday long weekend to September!

JANE RIMMER went missing 9th June.
6 days after our Foundation Day long weekend.

Therefore NOT on a long weekend or public holiday.

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1996&country=29

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Queens birthday is last weekend of september in WA, not the same as east coast

Oh snap!!!

 

[mandy.maree]

Thanks all.
I didn't know that! Weird
Kind of throws that theory out then really

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[Sloofski]

Wasn't too long after foundation day he could've still been using the long weekend for the hunt.

 

[lampformypath]

Further to my comment "you never know what's going to crack these nuts" just caught the end of a CI (Criminal Investigation) programme on Foxtel this a.m. and it was about Al Capone, one of the most notorious criminals of all time. Turns out he was brought down by a cockroach! One of his most trusted "bookkeepers" was dropping another huge bag of money off to a the local bank (as you do) and as he dropped the bag down a rather large cockie crawled out across the counter. The bookkeeper went ashen and staggered back dry retching and shaking. The teller asked what was the matter and the bloke related that he was so terrified of "bugs" but the cockie was his most dreaded phobia. The teller went on with his/her day then some time later the famous Eliot Ness comes in asking about the bookkeeper and the teller casually tells the story of the roach in amongst the cash. Duly noted Eliot and his band of merry untouchables proceed to arrest said bookkeeper and whilst transporting him to the "pen" they decide to make an unscheduled stop overnight at a particularly horrid prison and put "cockroach man" into a very old disused cell filled with nice juicy cockies. Bookkeeper screams and grovels and eventually says he'll "rat" on sweet ole Al. And so begins the demise of Al via tax evasion and the end of a very nasty era in USA. Who knows what tiny bit of information will be BRE's undoing, or will provide a "cracking point" in him, hideous fantasy begins in the mind and it is there the answers lie to finding out the how when and particularly, the why?

 

[AlwaysCurious77]

Just regarding the papers found in the wall - they look like notes someone has taken. Perhaps someone attended a course and that's why the notes are so detailed? Doesn't give the impression of random drawings.

 

[Guccigal]

I'm not sure about a lot of these other links but they are interesting! I heard someone mention Iona as a link.. I'm not sure about that as the KK rape victim went to MLC..I do believe he had met them before tho as most girls wouldn't get into a strangers car even if drunk! Maybe if they were with a friend but not alone. He may have met them walking through Karakatta or at the train station who knows.. what a creep. Am dying to see a picture of him back at the time, I wonder why one hasn't been released? I heard that it is def a judge only trial according to SVD.

 

[lampformypath]

Just regarding the papers found in the wall - they look like notes someone has taken. Perhaps someone attended a course and that's why the notes are so detailed? Doesn't give the impression of random drawings.

Hi AlwaysCurious77, I think you'll find there has been much discussion on thread #12 about the drawings being phone cabling of some sort and that lots of techies put them into wall cavities when they are setting up a property, leaving them for the next person who works on the job. Way beyond my understanding.:thinking:

 

[CSK?]

Guccigal - "I do believe he had met them before tho as most girls wouldn't get into a strangers car even if drunk! "

You would be absolutely suprized at how many would jump in a strangers car given the right circumstances. Lets pretend for the sake of this conversation that none of the girls were blitzed and all were abducted using a ruse method.

The first couple of girls were not aware of a serial killer on the prowl, stranger danger wasn't quite like it is these days and it's easy to say "I wouldn't get into a car with a stranger" in hindsight of there having been a serial killer on the loose.

If a good looking guy in a nice car pulled up offering a lift and he didn't give off creeper vibes then I'm sure a lot more girls would be willing to accept that lift than have been given credit for. You add in the factor of wanting a "date" for the night and the likelihood becomes even more probable.

Around the time frame of the CSK murders I was 15/16/17 and living outside of Coffs harbour at the time, my main method of transport into the city from the small beach town was hitch hiking, I knew it could be dangerous but at the end of the day people have that "but it won't happen to me" mentality, and I'm sure this wasn't limited to just me.

Like posters have said before, one of the greatest tools at a serial killers disposal is the ability to come across as kind, caring and charming. they do everything in their power to keep your inner alarm bells from sounding.

Character references off deceased people are often misguided due to several reasons, people are not willing to admit that a person may have behaved in a certain way because they don't want to tarnish the reputation of the said deceased. "She would never get into a car with a stranger" or as an example "he would never do drugs" in some way it brings comfort to the loved one or friend, the fact is more often than not these are wrong.

I can very well see these girls accepting a lift, on a busy night with the prospect of waiting a long time for a taxi and the ability to save a few bucks on the fare with a ride from a guy you think is attractive, charming and nice with a well maintained vehicle.

In saying this I still feel blitz is more likely based on the 2 known attacks but just wanted to point out that the willingness of these girls to just jump into a car with a stranger is just as a likely scenario. There was no need to build a relationship or trust prior, a serial killer has the ability to do this in minutes.

 

[lampformypath]

I'm not sure about a lot of these other links but they are interesting! I heard someone mention Iona as a link.. I'm not sure about that as the KK rape victim went to MLC..I do believe he had met them before tho as most girls wouldn't get into a strangers car even if drunk! Maybe if they were with a friend but not alone. He may have met them walking through Karakatta or at the train station who knows.. what a creep. Am dying to see a picture of him back at the time, I wonder why one hasn't been released? I heard that it is def a judge only trial according to SVD.

Thanks Guccigal, I love your posts as you always add something new, like I haven't heard about KK going to MLC before? How do you know that, do you know the victim somehow as you are local? Now about how BRE looked when younger, I have posted about that and no photos, crime 20 years go where's the photo of how he looked then? So I did up an attempt at photo/paint program and this caused much mirth and mockery had to laugh as I even said it looked like Liberace! But my 2nd attempt at doctoring a real photo of him I think wasn't too bad, better than an identikit one anyway in my unbiased opinion (laugh!), in case you haven't seen it I'll attach here. I took out wrinkles, double chin and gave him a bit more hair, all exactly as he would have been all those years ago and I don't think he looks half bad, almost handsome so CSK? your idea of girls getting in without knowing him could be right, who knows. Please be kind, this was done with best of intentions to help the process, no Jade Hurley tribute bands here or somebody's evil Nanna!!! :giggle:

 

[DingoFlour]

With regards to the public holiday vs disappearance debate:

Is there a link between SS disappearing on the Australia Day long weekend, allowing CSK more time to hide her body, compared to JR and CG perhaps being more quickly hidden, and therefore more easily found?

Is it possible that (as people have theorised on here before) CSK had access to a family connected property; BRE's parent's house while they were away in Madora Bay or vice versa. Or a work related property; Telstra infrastructure being quieter over a long weekend.
And JR and CG each disappearing the weekend following a long weekend, and being more easily discovered potentially points to CSK failing to 'secure' a victim over the long weekend prior, but following through the next weekend but consequently not having the resources and time available to adequately hide them.

Thoughts?

 

[pauldking]

I would like to learn about and retrospectively apply the Gematria system to see if the alleged perp matches the victims. Has anyone had any experience with utilising this system in the past to identify not only the perp but victims alike? This area of analysis I find fascinating. I don't know why – maybe because of my Jewish heritage. TIA

 

[Guccigal]

I love it! Great imaging! Not my type but yes he could have been someone's. Yes I know the KK rape victim, not well but through a group of friends.. a gorgeous girl with a lovely family. I didnt know her at the time tho, only in last 15 years or so but never broached the subject. I am curious as to how he looked before because there was a tall dark haired gent who used to ask some young girls (incl me) back to his place at the local pool (Somerset in vic park) I swam at. I would have been 18 so he would have been about 23 in 1992? I went to curtin uni which is in Bentley before I transferred to UWA, this guy used to live in Kewdale!