Still Missing Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 *Guilty* *Appeal* #29

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otto said:
<modsnip>

I also take issue with the Judge parsing out each of the murders into separate events so he could order consecutive sentencing. It strikes me as an emotional reaction rather than a logical one. Sentencing like this sets a dangerous precedent that I would not like to see in place. For example, Matthew de Groot murdered five people at a party. It could be argued that he murdered each one for a different reason, and therefore he should have five life sentences. The criminal justice system in Canada is premised on rehabilitation, not punishment, yet Gates has crossed the line to ordering punitive sentences.

The jail is full of people who are either charged with, or guilty of, criminal offences. They are 'evil', to use Justice Gates' word. For any of those convicted criminals to think that their violence is a notch above someone else's violence seems like wrong thinking.
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Matthew DeGrood was not convicted of murder at all - he was found not criminally responsible - so I'm not sure how your example is relevant. You are also incorrect in your assertion that Canadian Justice is only about rehabilitation. That's simply not true. Sentencing people to life in prison for vicious, violent crimes is not a new thing - and there is a very strong punitive element to that. Punishment is most certainly a prominent component of the Canadian Justice System.

<modsnip>
 
I wish we had some more prison documentaries in Canada. I was reading up on Millhaven last night. Chilling. I'm one of those people that would love to tour Kingston Penn. I did Alcatraz. Was amazing! Scary!


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PrincessButtercup said:
It's quite possible he'd end up there sadly, they've got a few of the worst of the worst at Millhaven as they have the facilities

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It's terrifying to think of all of the pure evil in that place.
 
JadeSLeuth said:
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/douglas-garland-attacked-in-prison-1.3989927

"Garland is expected to be released from the hospital and transported back to the Remand Centre later Saturday."
and
"Douglas Garland's Defence lawyer Kim Ross told CBC News he found the news of Garland's assault 'disappointing' as Garland has been in custody for 2½ years without incident."
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Well even they have a code. They waited until he was a convicted child killer. While his lawyer was disappointed I'm sure he wasn't surprised.
 
olivebpa1 said:
It's terrifying to think of all of the pure evil in that place.
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Bernardo, Russell, Rafferty just to name a few! Can you imagine the vibes you'd get just going through the gates ... even all of the angry spirits of the evil prisoners who died serving their life sentances?

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dyannaON said:
I wish we had some more prison documentaries in Canada. I was reading up on Millhaven last night. Chilling. I'm one of those people that would love to tour Kingston Penn. I did Alcatraz. Was amazing! Scary!

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Have you seen this one? If you go to youtube and type "Canada's prisons" you will get a few hits.

[video=youtube;1GbMsNap0_0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GbMsNap0_0[/video]
 
Saw them all. [emoji851]


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dyannaON said:
I wish we had some more prison documentaries in Canada. I was reading up on Millhaven last night. Chilling. I'm one of those people that would love to tour Kingston Penn. I did Alcatraz. Was amazing! Scary!


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Click to expand...
I can't remember if it was here or the other discussion group I'm in but someone toured Kingston when it was still open ... it wasnt a regular tour but part of their university or LE or something and they said Bernardo was like a caged animal.

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otto said:
There's a maximum security prison in Drumheller. He can't stay at the Spy Hill jail, but there's no obvious reason to move him out of the province.
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Drumheller is NOT maximum. COpied this off website:
Drumheller Institution is in Drumheller, Alberta. It is a medium and minimum security facility. Inmates are housed in direct observation living units or residential houses.

(Sorry I'm from the "older" generation and don't know how to post links! Tried copy and paste but doesn't work.)
 
dogmatica said:
Matthew DeGrood was not convicted of murder at all - he was found not criminally responsible - so I'm not sure how your example is relevant. You are also incorrect in your assertion that Canadian Justice is only about rehabilitation. That's simply not true. Sentencing people to life in prison for vicious, violent crimes is not a new thing - and there is a very strong punitive element to that. Punishment is most certainly a prominent component of the Canadian Justice System.

I also take issue with several of your assertions that Justice gates "crossed a line". He most certainly did not. He was 100% completely within his legal rights to give the sentence he did. If you are going to assert that Justice Gates has conducted himself in an unjust manner, please provide documented proof as such.
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In my opinion, punitive sentencing was introduced with consecutive sentencing - which is a very recent change to the Canadian justice system. Prior to that, even the worst murderers received a maximum of 25 years before parole eligibility with every opportunity to become educated, receive treatment, and rehabilitate.

In my opinion, Justice Gates stretched the interpretation of consecutive sentencing by deciding that the three murders that happened at the same time were not one event, but three separate events. He justified his reasoning by suggesting that each was killed for a different reason. However, the law does not say that three people killed at the same time for different reasons justified consecutive sentencing, but that it must be based on three separate events. That, in my humble opinion, is a error.

Matthew de Grood could have been convicted of murder, and using the reasoning provided by Gates, that should result in 5 consecutive sentences. De Grood has a mental disorder, and so does Garland. De Grood has schizophrenia, and Garland has something that makes him so unbalanced that he murdered three people after festering about a business deal for four years. That's simply not normal, but evil is not the root of the problem, mental illness is.
 
I feel bad for T5's parents right now, if they have heard he was beaten. Even though they don't have contact, they do still speak fondly of him and his mom did state she loves him.

Something that has been on my mind - Would I visit T5 if I was his mom? I think I would. No matter what kind of monster he is, it would break my heart to know my son was so alone.
 
<modsnip>

I value the law, and recognize that everyone has rights. The justice system is in place to address people like Garland, and no one has the right to take justice into their own hands for any reason.
 
I personally believe there is a vast difference between MdeG's mental illness and DG's. MdeG was found NCR, DG was not. Many people deal with varying degrees of mental illness, and live normal productive lives, without killing 5 year old boys and their grandparents.


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<modsnip>

In bold is the section that supports the point that there is a legal mandate to rehabilitate prisoners through various programs with the objective of reducing recidivism.

"The Correctional Service of Canada (CSC) has a legal mandate to provide programs and services that address offenders&#8217; criminal behaviour. We offer these both in institutions and in the community. Correctional programs are based on research of &#8220;what works&#8221;. We are guided by the most recent evidence in correctional research, relevant theory and current practices. Our programs focus on four areas:

Correctional programs
Education programs
Social programs
Vocational programs​

Correctional programs target factors that have been proven to reduce future re-offending. They were developed and put in place with the help of our most experienced program developers, facilitators, and managers. We have also consulted with internal and external stakeholders. We offer programs designed for men, women and Aboriginal offenders."

http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/correctional-process/002001-2000-eng.shtml
 
DG is NOT a special prisoner, we only hear of his assault because of the notoriety of the crime.
 
Slebby said:
I personally believe there is a vast difference between MdeG's mental illness and DG's. MdeG was found NCR, DG was not. Many people deal with varying degrees of mental illness, and live normal productive lives, without killing 5 year old boys and their grandparents.


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Spectrum disorders are now fully recognized, and mental illness falls under spectrum disorders. I could never view someone like Garland as a normal person, and the reason he is not normal is because he does not think straight.
 
otto said:
Spectrum disorders are now fully recognized, and mental illness falls under spectrum disorders. I could never view someone like Garland as a normal person, and the reason he is not normal is because he does not think straight.
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Yes but I may add, he does not feel. And they do not offer brain transplant yet..
 
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