IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #7

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JMO

But here are my current thoughts. I don't think the police know there is a second perp but may suspect it. I think they just wanted to keep that possibility open.

I also don't think we know if the perp(s) had any weapons. IMO it is possible to control two young girls, if they give the impression that if they try to run or fight, they will die. They may have thought complying would save their life. Also, we don't know how they might react in that situation because people respond differently in these kinds of situations.

I personally think they died by strangulation. (JMO no proof supports this) I think the least likely COD would be a gun. This is because although we don't know how they died, we can infer he did not cause trama to their face or heads. (Because there funeral was open casket). I could be wrong but it seems to me most of the time, when someone uses a gun to kill someone at close range, they shoot them in the head. I tend to lean twords strangulation because IMO he seemed to "get off" (joy/ satisfaction) by controlling these girls. Strangulation is a very controlling and dominating way to kill someone.

I agree that Libby got bad vibes from him and suspected something to go down, hence her recording him. If I were in her shoes, based only on the the things we have, I would have suspected sexual assault. I wouldn't immediately think of murder. This would also explain her recording, to have evidence later to help implicate the perp.

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dyannaON said:
Being that they released this info on the suspect im feeling sad that they really don't seem to have a suspect in mind. I really don't want to be a negative nancy but I'm worried this will just become a cold case. Jmo


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Don't be sad, its a process and we are all praying for justice for Libby and Abby. Be patient, they will get him!
 
(This was in reference to the photo possibly showing the man at the far end of the bridge) That's what I've been thinking. So devastating. I pray they find this killer soon. Their smart thinking may have saved the life of another young girl.
 
Linguists will be able, I hope, to pinpoint the region where this guy grew up. Vowels are especially telling in an accent. I'm sure they have more audio than what they released today.

I have lived most of my adult life in a different region than where I grew up. I think I lost my hometown accent, but the other day I said the word "roof" and nobody knew what I was saying. I guess I'll never truly pass as a local.

jmo
 
You know.........something just came into my mind now that it has been divulged that the camera stills (screenshots) were actually on the phone of one of the victims. Hear me out before you bust a stitch.

We all know that walking along that bridge is a little hazardous and dangerous in spots, most of us have seen the video. Now, imagine a couple of teenaged girls walking along, playing with their phone, taking snapshots and videos as they stroll along laughing and goofing off. Along comes a heavyset middle aged guy that accidentally trips or somehow stumbles as he's walking along the bridge, and girls being girls, they chuckle about it and take a snapshot as he's getting back up and brushing himself off. Their laughing and giggling at his misfortune so outrages him, that he decides to make them pay for singling him out and making him feel foolish and embarrassed.

Although I think everybody initially assumed this was a case of stalking and sexual assault, I can't help but wonder if this entire thing was based on some overly-sensitive jerk getting his ego bruised. We all know that teen girls can be goofy and silly towards strangers while really meaning nothing by it. We also know that some men can't stand to be laughed at or made fun of by women. Hence, the perfect storm that day on the bridge.

To all of you that are going to jump up and down about victim blaming..........that's not what this is. This is an attempt to try and formulate what may have happened on the bridge that led to the final outcome.
That audio clip to me sounds like someone who is determined and a little bit angry.
 
Hillbilllycat said:
Wow it really does look like a truck. On closer inspection you can see the wheels. Good find.
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Sorry, I think I know what part of the picture you're talking about now, not the part with the poles. That does look vaguely like a car, however I'm not sure if I'm seeing it because I want to, or if I actually see it.
 
No the pic with the area below outlined in need on the bottom left. Its hard to make out unless you enlarge the pic and zoom in. You can clearly see the vehicle down to the wheels. I'm not sure if I'm doing this right but the post I was replying too. QUOTE=SuzDuJour;

This is the car under the bridge...if it is a car and someone could get a car under there. The car is pointing to the right with a leaning tree going across the tire.[/QUOTE]
 
Bob Saccamano said:
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10' contours indicate some significant slopes.
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arrows pointing up slopes

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The audio has me circling back to roughly my original theory that he intercepted them on the bridge or just coming off of it. Now, KNOWING that the video was from Libby's phone, it appears that he took control of them on the bridge. He may have walked pas them since it appears that he he is walking to the South, the same direction of the instagram of Abby and heading in the opposite direction from the side of the creek where Abby was found. I think he could have walked a few feet past them, turned and then directed them back the way he had come from to the North side of the creek. The video is also crucial because it implies that he likely took them to the same side he approached from. I think this is important because he I feel he probably had a reason to go to that side- he knew that side had less houses and that the terrain would give them the ability to hide if need be. He also directed them right off the end of the bridge and not left which would lead me to believe that he was aware of the trail that paralleled the main trail (the trail to the right that the witness said she didn't take) and avoided that side because of the possibility of being interrupted. He took them to the most isolated place available and this indicates to me that he was at least somewhat familiar with the area.

My theory is that he parked in the trees to the rear of the cemetery and made the walk to the bridge. He could have waited in the woods East of the bridge and watched them get out onto the bridge so they would have nowhere to escape. I feel like he could have walked past them pretending to just be someone else on the trail and then ordered them back as soon as he got south of their position. He walked them East and then exited the area via a vehicle at the cemetery and would not have had to go back to the trail anymore. The questions I have here revolve around whether he was seen by others at the park that day. It wouldn't be necessary for him to be on the trails in this scenario risking unnecessary contact.

The drifter angle, which it seems LE is leaning away from makes this all much harder to piece together because it allows for so much more random activity because of the lack of vehicle or means of travel to return to.
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I agree with much of this! Although I believe the picture of BG is of him walking north (say after passing them heading south & turning back around).
I think Abby was standing on bridge & Libby was sitting on the edge...probably on the part that sticks out (closest to the north end/main entrance of bridge). They notice guy walk past, then turn around & come back......sets Libbys red flag meter off. she crosses her arms with phone in her hand & presses record.....at some point puts phone in pocket while still recording, hence the muffled/scratchy sounds.
Based on ISP conference I will guess the voice is of BG. I will guess he used a knife to coerce them off the bridge. Possibly another person waiting for them.....possibly not. Probably 'walked' them to remote place in woods towards the cemetery where he could get away likely unnoticed.

What an amazing girl!! I am SOOO impressed by her quick thinking.
 
If the the family and LE had this info from the phone in the cloud at 6 pm, why call off the search overnight? IMO, EVERYONE -->the GOOD, the bad, the ugly are suspect.
 
So I should imagine that the police have investigated the member in the save Monon High Bridge Facebook page. . just it was creepy he had a thin hoodie top pulled over a cap, blue jeans ,a blue coat and similar build to the suspect in some of his facebook pictures. Maybe not the same blue coat and also how many other men dress like this. ... many I should imagine. Just shows you how many people look similar and can be misidentified. If it had been him he would have been arrested by now ?The conference was hard to watch.Emotions were high. My father was a police officer and I guess some get 'used 'to the horrors but obviously this case is extremely horrendous and very sad. I think the officers would live to disclose more information but can not as it may compromise the case. Sorry my keyboard is sticking a bit on my screen .
 
Please stop posting there is a man at the end of the bridge. That was ruled out ages ago.
 
Hillbilllycat said:
No the pic with the area below outlined in need on the bottom left. Its hard to make out unless you enlarge the pic and zoom in. You can clearly see the vehicle down to the wheels.
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If you could reply with quote (use the button) it would make it much easier to follow your posts, especially as things are moving so fast here
 
A few thoughts I've pulled together as I've followed this thread:

1. Looking at the two still shots we have of the POI, I get "approaching" vs. "passing" from his body language. Together with how much clothing he is wearing compared to them, the girls probably picked up on that.
2. The brown object on the right hip looks like a fanny pack (a favorite for CCW holders.. they come in many colors and are made for quick access and draw either both side).
3. It might just be his gut, but it also looks like he is has something under his coat "shoplifter" style.
3. I'd bet $$$ that this person knew the girls would be there. Someone who works at their school, parent of a friend, friend of a parent, works at sporting goods store, associated with church. They were probably not obviously connected through SM but maybe the girls had posted their fishing and hiking photos before?

I will be surprised if he is not a local or doesn't live within 25 miles.


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steelman said:
You know.........something just came into my mind now that it has been divulged that the camera stills were actually on the phone of one of the victims. Hear me out before you bust a stitch.

We all know that walking along that bridge is a little hazardous and dangerous in spots, most of us have seen the video. Now, imagine a couple of teenaged girls walking along, playing with their phone, taking snapshots and videos as they stroll along laughing and goofing off. Along comes a heavyset middle aged guy that accidentally trips or somehow stumbles as he's walking along the bridge, and girls being girls, they chuckle about it and take a snapshot as he's getting back up and brushing himself off. Their laughing and giggling at his misfortune so outrages him, that he decides to make them pay for singling him out and making him feel foolish and embarrassed.

Although I think everybody initially assumed this was a case of stalking and sexual assault, I can't help but wonder if this entire thing was based on some overly-sensitive jerk getting his ego bruised. We all know that teen girls can be goofy and silly towards strangers while really meaning nothing by it. We also know that some men can't stand to be laughed at or made fun of by women. Hence, the perfect storm that day on the bridge.

To all of you that are going to jump and and down about victim blaming..........that's not what this is. This is an attempt to try and formulate what may have happened on that bridge that led to the final outcome.
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I think he would have had to have been really on the ball and/or possessing means of readily available restraints (or just happened to have a gun or a knife), and had sufficient information about the area, and feeling pretty comfortable to switch into that gear that quickly, and get those girls to either a location of his choosing, or one that was extremely lucky for him.
 
steelman said:
You know.........something just came into my mind now that it has been divulged that the camera stills were actually on the phone of one of the victims. Hear me out before you bust a stitch.

We all know that walking along that bridge is a little hazardous and dangerous in spots, most of us have seen the video. Now, imagine a couple of teenaged girls walking along, playing with their phone, taking snapshots and videos as they stroll along laughing and goofing off. Along comes a heavyset middle aged guy that accidentally trips or somehow stumbles as he's walking along the bridge, and girls being girls, they chuckle about it and take a snapshot as he's getting back up and brushing himself off. Their laughing and giggling at his misfortune so outrages him, that he decides to make them pay for singling him out and making him feel foolish and embarrassed.

Although I think everybody initially assumed this was a case of stalking and sexual assault, I can't help but wonder if this entire thing was based on some overly-sensitive jerk getting his ego bruised. We all know that teen girls can be goofy and silly towards strangers while really meaning nothing by it. We also know that some men can't stand to be laughed at or made fun of by women. Hence, the perfect storm that day on the bridge.

To all of you that are going to jump and and down about victim blaming..........that's not what this is. This is an attempt to try and formulate what may have happened on that bridge that led to the final outcome.
That audio clip to me sounds like someone who is determined and a little bit angry.
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmm.......that is indeed an interesting thought. I can see someone being offended by two "kids" in just this scenario. Do I think it's the case here? No I don't. Just my gut. But it's a definitely something to keep an open mind about IMO.


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