IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #8

[Jax49]

I'm unclear on timing--were the pics of the perp taken before or after the audio? Some how I got the impression the pics were before but now I'm not sure. Do we know?

 

[Solequinox]

Please forgive me for asking this question but it keeps bugging me. Why does the bridge in this picture look so much shorter than the picture of Abby on the bridge. This may have been asked and answered already but I'm behind because I stepped away from my tablet. Is it a different bridge? Just trying to get things clear in my mind. Thanks in advance.

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That bridge has 6 step-outs, 3 on each side, like the one in question, and appears to be taken from the SE side.

 

[naz]

The trail does not seemed that well used. Did he see the grandparent drop the girls while he was driving by. Came later to catch up to the girls, maybe that what made Libby take a picture, they were walking fast and yet he was catching up to them. I can't see how he would have been on the trail unless he was sort a of tourist taking a stroll, or a drifter high on something. I see a guy driving by and sizing an opportunity to hurt the girls.

 

[Megster024]

I'm unclear on timing--were the pics of the perp taken before or after the audio? Some how I got the impression the pics were before but now I'm not sure. Do we know?

Well, Libby took the video, and the man is heading towards them. He doesn't look close enough at all to be picked up on audio. I think it's safe to assume it was before.


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[Solequinox]

Wow good work. So did your work change the tone or sound of his voice, or just the speed in which He said it? He sounds very calm.

I used the free program audacity and used the change tempo effect which claimed to not affect pitch whereas changing speed would affect the pitch.

 

[YYC]

1. I agree. Too much not known here and yes, data can often be transmitted when a call won't go through.

2. I feel like he had to at least know that the Northeast quadrant was the most isolated. North of the creek, east of the bridge. On the South side, there are residences on either side of the bridge with driveways. On the Northwest side, there is the "trail to the right" that the witness referred to and the location of the creek and the trail wouldn't allow one to ever get too far from the bridge or the main trail. The area he chose to take them offered the most isolation. Was that by chance or did he already know?

3. I was wondering if perhaps the FBI caught wind of the search and went in because of knowledge of an active predator or something with the circumstances alerted them. Could be that it was just a missing child case and local presence got involved.

It is possible that the perp had a plan to corral the potential victims to the secluded flat area by the creek and he just needed a good opportunity. In that regard, a likely exit IMO would be across the creek by foot through the shallow creek water. His vehicle, whatever it was, would already be there beside the residential road waiting on him. This way he minimized risk by avoiding to go north and potentially run into someone or if someone would come from that direction to help the victims. If he had an accomplice waiting by the creek that would further minimize the risk.

 

[Jax49]

Well, Libby took the video, and the man is heading towards them. He doesn't look close enough at all to be picked up on audio. I think it's safe to assume it was before.


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That's what I thought. Thanks.

 

[naz]

Well, Libby took the video, and the man is heading towards them. He doesn't look close enough at all to be picked up on audio. I think it's safe to assume it was before.


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I think Libby took the video, then left her phone in her pocket and that's maybe why the voice sounds a little muffled?

 

[sweetchristmas]

I live about 30 minutes from this area. I don't post often so I'm unsure if I can repeat local "gossip". My apologies in advance if I say something that is against the rules:
*FBI agents and other LE are swarming the area. The phone, pictures, etc. are being examined by very experienced people. Credit to local LE for being willing to hand the investigation over so quickly to those who are more experienced.
(Delphi has had only 1 murder in the last 20 years.)

<modsnip>

*The nearby packing company has long had a problem attracting and retaining employees. It's a pig slaughterhouse; a hard, dirty job that doesn't pay well. Until about 10 years ago, they relied heavily on immigrants, both legal and not. It's become much more difficult to hire people illegally so they are always desperate for workers. It's a pretty rough crowd that works there but the business itself is pretty important to Indiana (pork is big, big business here.) Suffice to say, people who have options work elsewhere.
*Finally, a friend from Delphi said the wooden bridge and immediate area is very popular as a place to hike, take pictures, picnic, etc.. The place where the bodies were found is waaay off the beaten path and difficult to access. It hard to imagine that it would be known to people other than locals. My friend has lived there for 22 years and has only been to that spot once, when she was preparing/practicing for a weeklong hiking trip in the Appalachian Mountains. She went to practice walking on rough terrain.

 

[Eastonwatson]

I slowed down the tempo of the second audio release by 30%, added some blank space, and cut out the repeats.

https://instaud.io/Mwt

Thank you! Couldn't figure out why in the world they wanted to loop it. People are going to play it many times.

The loop did nothing but put it all in motion. Not in a good way. I found my self trying to not listen to the pattern of the background caused by the loop

 

[mpnola]

Liberty had the presence of mind to record God knows how much of this horror.

I'm trying to understand how she did this without the monster noticing what she was doing, and also where her phone was found. He wouldn't have left it at the crime scene. Do you all think Liberty lost it between the bridge and the location the girls were found? Was it in the creek and divers found it?

I believe Sgt. Riley when he says LE will find the person who murdered Liberty & Abby. The pressor was one of the best I've seen, recognized the BAU input right away. Carefully crafted words spoken by LE at that podium today.

I was in the shower (where all of my genius ideas are born) and I was thinking about 2 things:

1. We know her phone was off or dead by the time they were getting picked up. 3:30ish. Right? Well, if she started recording a video and then dropped her phone in the woods so that he wouldnt get her phone but there might be a recording- how long would it take to run out a battery? I cannot imagine that HE touched her phone and didnt destroy it or take it. So, it makes me think he never had access to her phone. He certainly wouldnt leave it in her pocket, right? But if it was "lost" he wouldnt look for it.

2. Ok. I am going waaaay back to the beginning. Do y'all remember when le said something to the effect of they were doing normal girl stuff, taking pictures and they were active on several social media sites while they were out there. The last photo was posted at 2:07 to Snapchat. Well.... do we know what other activity there was? Does anyone else remember hearing that in the beginning? I feel like I have looked at so much info since then and scrutinized blue jean creases until I was angry. Ha!

 

[Sunshine95]

I thought the color on his jeans by his right hand looked like blood, but it made no sense since it was before the attack. The reference in the PR to right hand in pocket makes me wonder if LE thinks it's blood, too? I thought it could be his own blood that maybe his hand was bleeding for some reason before he attacked the girls?

Also, I've been in a situation where I didn't have cell reception but was threatened, so I recorded it on my phone. This may have been why no call was placed. Finally, on my phone it's much quicker and easier to access the camera than the phone aspect so she may have only had time to do that.

I think he's hiding in plain sight so to speak, hopefully one of the tips they are following will be him.

Rest In Peace beautiful babies! We are so proud of you!

 

[SgtSleuthy]

@sweetchristmas: Is your friend privy to a twenty-something man or group of men who have been known to frequent the cemetery near the Logan property on or around Valentines Day over the last 3-5 years?

 

[Megster024]

I was in the shower (where all of my genius ideas are born) and I was thinking about 2 things:

1. We know her phone was off or dead by the time they were getting picked up. 3:30ish. Right? Well, if she started recording a video and then dropped her phone in the woods so that he wouldnt get her phone but there might be a recording- how long would it take to run out a battery? I cannot imagine that HE touched her phone and didnt destroy it or take it. So, it makes me think he never had access to her phone. He certainly wouldnt leave it in her pocket, right? But if it was "lost" he wouldnt look for it.

2. Ok. I am going waaaay back to the beginning. Do y'all remember when le said something to the effect of they were doing normal girl stuff, taking pictures and they were active on several social media sites while they were out there. The last photo was posted at 2:07 to Snapchat. Well.... do we know what other activity there was? Does anyone else remember hearing that in the beginning? I feel like I have looked at so much info since then and scrutinized blue jean creases until I was angry. Ha!

I don't think we know exactly when her phone was off. The grandfather had stated he had sent texts that were delivered, but not read by Libby and that the phone pinged around town.


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[StormyNights]

When it comes to the phone, I don't think the perp seemed to care enough to look for it. But, it would speak to his age if he didn't even realize what it was. IMO

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[SgtSleuthy]

I think Carter and Massa used appearance altering examples like "right hand (in his pocket)", "(shave his) beard", "(cut his) hair" purposely. Something tells me they have a (named) suspect in mind, but are currently unable to locate him. Perhaps distinguishing tattoo/marks on right hand, long/full beard, long hair are specific to their suspect.

 

[bessie]

IMO his accent sounds midwestern. I heard, "g'down the hill." The G part sounds like a cut off "go" to me. I hope someone can recognize the POI soon... Everyone, keep your eyes peeled! What happened to these beautiful little girls is heartbreaking. RIP.

rbbm

Agreed. That's what I hear, too.

 

[naz]

I'm not sure that Libby would have dropped her phone. I think she would have thought she may have to use it, called 911 and kept it..Kids at that age are very fast with their phone. The perp may have not see Libby taking a video, he may have been 50 yards ( guess of course) from them yet, is that why it's grainy, unfocused..

 

[Megster024]

I think Carter and Massa used appearance altering examples like "right hand (in his pocket)", "(shave his) beard", "(cut his) hair" purposely. Something tells me they have a (named) suspect in mind, but are currently unable to locate him. Perhaps distinguishing tattoo/marks on right hand, long/full beard, long hair are specific to their suspect.

I wondered about that for a while, but after I watched the press conference, I felt that they came across so desperate for any and all tips. It was one of the saddest, most terrifying things I've seen/heard. It sounded like they have no clue who he is or where. I'm hoping with the coverage someone called in today with THE tip. I am also praying he doesn't kill himself or get killed in jail. He needs to suffer like those poor girls.


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[Bob Saccamano]

Please forgive me for asking this question but it keeps bugging me. Why does the bridge in this picture look so much shorter than the picture of Abby on the bridge. This may have been asked and answered already but I'm behind because I stepped away from my tablet. Is it a different bridge? Just trying to get things clear in my mind. Thanks in advance.

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I don't feel like it looks like the same one either. The monon high bridge is reportedly 853' long. That doesn't look that long in the photo you referred to.

It is possible that the perp had a plan to coral the potential victims to the secluded flat area by the creek and he just needed a good opportunity. In that regard, a likely exit IMO would be across the creek by foot through the shallow creek water. His vehicle, whatever it was, would already be there beside the residential road waiting on him. This way he minimized risk by avoiding to go north and potentially run into someone or if someone would come from that direction to help the victims. If he had an accomplice waiting by the creek that would further minimize the risk.

Knowing the photo definitely occurred prior to the crime and was definitely taken as video by Liberty changes a little from my initial impression. I originally felt like he took them from the bridge or from the North end of it just as they came off of it and lead them upstream on the North side of the creek. My initial reaction was that he likely did this because he had a car at the cemetery and that was his planned escape and prevented him from having to spend any considerable time on the actual trails because the trails raise the potential to encounter witnesses. I also felt he could watch the bridge from that area of woods East of the bridge on the North bank of the creek.

What I struggled with was that I couldn't really figure out why he would go out on the bridge moving in a Southerly direction before or after the crime if they ended up on the North side. The bridge is a risky spot for him because it is so visible and you can't move on it quickly if someone came unexpectedly. I felt that there was no way he'd use the bridge to exit the area afterwards. I also felt that based on where he took them, he'd possibly have to be wet or have mud on him.

I feel like he walked onto the bridge after possibly loitering around the end for a bit oddly that caught the girls' attention? I'm not certain that Liberty isn't pretending to take a selfie in the video and the still is with her cropped out of it. That could be the reason for it being out of focus. A lot of times, phone cameras recognize a face up close and focus to it. It would explain the poor quality of the stills because they may have cropped her out and it could be why she was able to keep it recording without him being alarmed or focused on her phone. I feel like he probably walked just past them as if he was going to pass on by and then turned and produced a weapon walking them back North.

The fact that he chose the area he makes me believe he had at least scoped out the area before. It seemed they walked a decent distance and I'm not sure how he would know they wouldn't end up in someone's backyard or in view from a house. I have also held the theory that he walked them away from the bridge until he got to an area that he felt someone on the bridge couldn't see and would have a harder time hearing. The area he walked them through begins relatively flat with a steep drop to the creek and then the terrain begins to get pretty severe at the first drainage ditch south of the cemetery. How was he able to be confident that a chase wouldn't ensue in those woods which would have been very difficult for 1 guy chasing 2 teenagers. There were several options to get down to the creek and he chose the one that took the longest walk, but ended up being most isolated. Was this just chance?

I also wonder how he was sure he would be able to keep them quiet? Did this not matter to him. It is possible that he had already encountered one witness and that witness spoke of other people she saw, but not the girls. Was he just sure they would comply with commands or did he do something to cover their mouths?

I keep focusing on how well did he know the area and how prepared was he for this when he arrived that day?
There are reasons to believe he knew it quite well and that he came prepared with things to force them to comply as well as restrain them and possibly keep them quiet? We don't know the manner of death, but I've heard no reports of gunshots.

There is a lot about this crime that makes it seem like it would be very daring to initiate and difficult to pull off. It almost requires help. I'm not saying there has to be an additional guy, but I can understand why there could be reluctance to rule out an accomplice.

The thing about releasing the voice and the picture and stating that it might not be the same person, subconsciously, people are listening to the voice and trying to match it to the guy in the picture whether they mean to or not. I figure they must know that it is him and are just being vague about it to not discourage anyone who may think they recognize the guy, but not the voice or vice versa. It seems like a risky play to make, but I get it, especially if they believe he was disguising his identity.