PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #15

[SeekingJana]

Every year, around this time, I get this lingering " cloud" of dread, of remembering April 15.. not because of IRS deadlines, but because of Ray's case. ( Even though I believe he was seen alive on April 16 in Lewisville).

One thing which MOST people do not discuss, probably because we actually cannot discuss it with great insight and clarity, I know I can't, is the book that Mr. Gricar either somehow was a consultant on, or otherwise helped the author with.
It is the obscure, non- bestselling science fiction book " 20/20 Vision". I can't even find a copy of it.

Here's what I know about the book, which is less than what I know about what exactly Mr. Gricar's role was in the research and the writing of the book, and his relationship to the author.

20/20 Vision is a sci-fi book which is loosely based on the missing person, Betsy Aardsma's case. It deals with a woman, who was stabbed on a college campus, meant to be a fictionalized version of the PSU campus.
Again, the date April 15 rears its most ugly head. The story takes place on 4/15 of 1995, 2020, and 2040 ( the science fiction elements, I suppose being the future dates).
Formally, Ray Gricar is said to have disappeared on 4/15 of 2005. ( It was the last date he was absolutely known to be in his home, the last verifiable date of his life).

Oh, and as Columbo would say, just one more thing: The book had a definite date and location connection, but there's a third possible connection- The plot point involved a faked death.

What is known about Betsy Aardsma? What is known about the author of the book and HER possible relationship to Ray Gricar?
Could this have been his lightbulb moment to form a plan or " blueprint' for either suicide OR walkaway? Where was the book's author, Pamela West, on April 15- 16, 2005, five years after this minor tome was published?? Did she and Ray stay in touch, maybe? Anyone know if this has been checked out?

J.J., I know you read the book, because you left a review of it, well, sort of, on Amazon. I can't download a Kindle version because there isn't one, so my copy is ordered and I will have it read before April 15, the ides of March willing.

Did you find any anecdotal info about Pamela West and Ray Gricar meeting, discussing the book in person, spending time outlining the major plot points, etc? What exactly do you think a D.A. helped her with? The faked murder? The real disappearance of Betsy? Other?

WHY don't we talk about things like this and RAYSTOWN LAKE more often? Why can't we get answers as to whether or NOT he was at Raystown Lake? Why do we " think" he was but do not know?
I think we are missing out on so much because attention turned from " the very esteemed D.A. Ray Frank Gricar." to the" most evil Jerry Sandusky" in Happy Valley. Both descriptions are correct but more current news overshadowed older news. IF Ray was alive when Sandusky broke and has kept on rolling in the news, do you think he was/ is happy that Sandusky took the spotlight, or disappointed that people stopped making news specials about him and his disappearance?
I've wondered this but have never asked, because the question assumes he is or was alive of his own free will for years after leaving Centre County, and I am not sure this is accurate...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

First, The Betsy Aardsma murder case was legendary in the PSU student body as the "girl in the stacks murder." Before the Gricar disappearance, this was probably the most mysterious case, and the one creating the most discussion, in Centre County. It has still overshadowed the more recent, and also unsolved, Dana Baily murder, in 1987. This is part because the "stacks" are the numerous bookshelves in Pattee Library and Baily was killed in her off campus apartment.

[A recent article on Dana Baily is here: http://www.collegian.psu.edu/news/crime_courts/article_65c0c4d0-c3cc-11e4-8bbc-c77098af8136.html Ironically, the lead detective, Ralph Ralston, was one of the people that heard Sandusky's 1998 admission to showering with Victim 6.]

Aardsma was stabbed in the "stacks," rows and rows of bookshelves, in earshot of several other people on November 29,1969. There murderer was never caught, but a poster here, Littlehorn, co-authored a book providing at least some circumstantial evidence that Aardsma killer was the late Dr. Richard Haefner, then a grad student. Haefner was non on anyone's radar until the mid-2000's. In the 1970-80's the chief suspect was a literature professor, that left PSU within weeks after the murder and died in an automobile accident Michigan before the end of 1969. He has since been excluded.

In the late 1980's, Pamela West, was considering writing a non-fiction book on the murder, and ask RFG for help. He said that he could not release the files, but still encouraged her to write it. He did not help her write it or research it.

West, not wanting to be sued for libel, decided against it. She wrote a sci-fi detective story called 20/20 Vision, which was published in the summer of 1990. RFG borrowed the book from a (now retired) PSP trooper, didn't return it; the trooper bought another copy. West was able to tie down the time that RFG borrowed it, because she knew when it was being sold.

The book involves time travel, of a sort, and the action all takes place on 4/15 of 1995, 2020 and 2040. In one part, the main character drives to the east to the town of "Juneville" located in a valley and sees "Mount Shawnee" and "Lone Eagle Mountain." "Mount Shawnee" was named after a legendary Indian princess.

Centre Hall is located in Brush Valley, he drove across Bald Eagle Mountain. To his right was Mount Nittany, named after a legendary Indian princess. It was from this area that RFG made his call to PEF.

West had in mind possibly the area a bit south of Centre Hall as the location, but the description could easily fit Centre Hall. When I read it, my hair stood on end.

One of the plot points is a character faking his death and living in a foreign country; fake ashes were sent back. Ashes were found in the Mini. The main character drives a BMW, which also manufactures Mini Coopers.

West had not seen RFG since the late 1980's when she wrote the book and she didn't know if he had ever read it.

Just as additional note, the character is driving to a retirement home in "Juneville." As I noted before there is a mental facility in Centre Hall, the Meadows, bit it was founded in 1999. I don't know if there was a retirement home around there in the 1980's.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped

WHY don't we talk about things like this and RAYSTOWN LAKE more often? Why can't we get answers as to whether or NOT he was at Raystown Lake? Why do we " think" he was but do not know?

A "doctor," who knew RFG saw him there abound 11:00-11:30 AM. That was more than enough time to leave the Prison Board meeting, which ended around 9:00 AM, and get there. He also check the weather for Lake Raystown, and Lewisburg, earlier in the week.

 

[SeekingJana]

I believe you, of course. What I read on a blog type site didn't make sense yesterday- it is an " unsolved mysteries" type site an a person ( none of the Gricar case posters here) who kind of gets his/ her name into several other high profile Missing Adult cases had posted that Ray helped the author get info on the unsolved murder of Betsy A.
I thought " Breach of ethics" and all that. It didn't sit well with me at all, and the only explanation I could come up with was that maybe there was a personal relationship between the book's author and Ray.

Now, I see that the " headline wannabe" was simply inserting more sensationalized info than what really is known to have occurred.
It's REALLY hard to keep a cold case alive with momentum in the absence of new evidence or "sex drugs and rock 'n roll.".
Semi-celeb was going for the sex angle, I think. Didn't fit, so I came here to ask.. Thank you!!

OK, so do we know if Patty has ever issued any comment regarding Raystown Lake sighting one day and Susquehanna River connection the very next day in Lewisville? ( slight to moderate possibility that some part of the laptop was thrown in the river at that time, according to my husband, who knows everything about early model laptops).

Could Ray have planned to " drown" the laptop in Raystown Lake or maybe hand it over to someone for reasons known to him but not to me? .IOW, if he had not been seen, could have have dumped something relatively weighty into the lake after or near dark? I do not know how crowded the lake area is, or was, or how someone came to see him.. Well, yes I do because I used to live near lakes and rivers and used to meet boyfriends there over the years for picnics in the grass near the riverbank or on a secluded little pier.. Happened that I LOVE the water, all water, as you know. This was one person at a time over a few decades, lest someone get the idea that I was a wild child. Not at all. Almost invariably, we would see someone we knew, and it was around 30 miles from either of our towns of residence.

I've run into people from my tiny hometown in NYC. At Disney World. Life is really strange that way.
Maybe my own past clouds the objectivity of the purpose for a man to drive out of town to little country areas which are rather picturesque, as I do think lakes and most rivers are. The two places kind of point to a liaison of some sort, where the risk is worth it to both parties at the time, single, or not single ( I was single when I wanted to meet someone out of both our " neck of the woods" so to speak.)
If the doctor said he saw him, he likely did, unless he saw the red Mini Cooper instead of Ray, and it was the other two or three owners with the same color Mini.

Still doesn't tell us why he was there, then left, then drove to Lewisville the next day. I mean, boredom is one thing, but parking a car and seeming to WAIT on someone is way beyond boring... unless the person is someone you can hardly wait to see again. JMO, and partially based on the fact that Barbara G and Patty F looked so insanely similar, but E.G. looked very different.. TWO may have been " proper relationships befitting his circumstances"- vanilla ice cream bland, whereas E.G. was the rocky road flavor in more ways than he expected. Still, people DO repeat patterns and choices. I can see being extremely bored by P F and meeting someone who was sugar AND spice. Not saying that he did, but he was single, he could do what he want, and a woman may be the primary reason for both little day trips, with one having an open end that we cannot close.

The headline grabbing person who posted about the book and the author's work with Ray totally put my focus back on the " meeting a woman and after spending time with her, being willing to follow her anywhere" kind of thing.. I like the idea that he found a woman who didn't look like two of his exes to the point of being nearly identical in features.. size, hair, general " energy levels" being very low key....As long as she didn't kill him or lure him into fatal harm.

Yes, I know PA is nothing if not filled with all those hills and valleys.It's pretty for those who happen to like hills and mountains, which I don't like, at all.
I, like Betsy and most college students who were excellent students and loved to do independent research,. spent tons of years in libraries as part of my research studies, and although I wasn't murdered and am not missing, obviously, I was flashed by the pervert campus flasher..

Sometimes, those types of people do escalate their behavior into contact violence if they are not arrested and punished. I tend to think that most of us laughed at him.
We were young, foolish and happy and his overcoat and muttered " hey heys" to one or the other of us didn't mean the world as we knew it was going to end.
About that time, though Ted Bundy came to prominence in the national news,and we became much more wary, thank goodness.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just a note. I have talked to Pamela West regarding the book. RFG encouraged her to write on the Aardsma case, but non fiction. He did not provide her any information.

I have never heard of PEF specifically talking about the Lake Raystown.

It is Lewisburg, not Lewistown. There is actually a Lewistown in the area.


Respectfully snipped:

Could Ray have planned to " drown" the laptop in Raystown Lake or maybe hand it over to someone for reasons known to him but not to me? .IOW, if he had not been seen, could have have dumped something relatively weighty into the lake after or near dark? I do not know how crowded the lake area is, or was, or how someone came to see him.. Well, yes I do because I used to live near lakes and rivers and used to meet boyfriends there over the years for picnics in the grass near the riverbank or on a secluded little pier.. Happened that I LOVE the water, all water, as you know. This was one person at a time over a few decades, lest someone get the idea that I was a wild child. Not at all. Almost invariably, we would see someone we knew, and it was around 30 miles from either of our towns of residence.

The lake would open that weekend, but at the time it would not have been overly crowded. The lake is 28 miles long at its longest spot, so he could have gone to another location. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raystown_Lake

I've run into people from my tiny hometown in NYC. At Disney World. Life is really strange that way.
Maybe my own past clouds the objectivity of the purpose for a man to drive out of town to little country areas which are rather picturesque, as I do think lakes and most rivers are. The two places kind of point to a liaison of some sort, where the risk is worth it to both parties at the time, single, or not single ( I was single when I wanted to meet someone out of both our " neck of the woods" so to speak.)
If the doctor said he saw him, he likely did, unless he saw the red Mini Cooper instead of Ray, and it was the other two or three owners with the same color Mini.

It was someone who knew him.

Still doesn't tell us why he was there, then left, then drove to Lewisville the next day. I mean, boredom is one thing, but parking a car and seeming to WAIT on someone is way beyond boring... unless the person is someone you can hardly wait to see again. JMO, and partially based on the fact that Barbara G and Patty F looked so insanely similar, but E.G. looked very different.. TWO may have been " proper relationships befitting his circumstances"- vanilla ice cream bland, whereas E.G. was the rocky road flavor in more ways than he expected. Still, people DO repeat patterns and choices. I can see being extremely bored by P F and meeting someone who was sugar AND spice. Not saying that he did, but he was single, he could do what he want, and a woman may be the primary reason for both little day trips, with one having an open end that we cannot close.

That is a possibility.

The headline grabbing person who posted about the book and the author's work with Ray totally put my focus back on the " meeting a woman and after spending time with her, being willing to follow her anywhere" kind of thing.. I like the idea that he found a woman who didn't look like two of his exes to the point of being nearly identical in features.. size, hair, general " energy levels" being very low key....As long as she didn't kill him or lure him into fatal harm.

EG didn't meet the description of the "mystery woman." Unless it was a romantic encounter, I couldn't see why RFG would not have told PEF. I'm told that RFG "loathed" his second wife by the time of the divorce. It was he who filed.

Yes, I know PA is nothing if not filled with all those hills and valleys.It's pretty for those who happen to like hills and mountains, which I don't like, at all.
I, like Betsy and most college students who were excellent students and loved to do independent research,. spent tons of years in libraries as part of my research studies, and although I wasn't murdered and am not missing, obviously, I was flashed by the pervert campus flasher..

Sometimes, those types of people do escalate their behavior into contact violence if they are not arrested and punished. I tend to think that most of us laughed at him.
We were young, foolish and happy and his overcoat and muttered " hey heys" to one or the other of us didn't mean the world as we knew it was going to end.
About that time, though Ted Bundy came to prominence in the national news,and we became much more wary, thank goodness.

In 1969, the library was used for sexual encounters both same and different sex ones, but usually the former. Aardsma was in a section corresponding to her major. It was a different time.

 

[SeekingJana]

I can't edit my post. I know it's Lewisburg, of course. I posted that in the middle of the night, and should have used more common sense. You know I have posted on this case for over a decade, LOL.
In my part of the country, almost everything is a " ville" or a " town" not a " burg" or a " berg".. That's a huge thing in PA and the NE seaboard states that contrasts to some other states in how towns are named. We also do not have " commonwealth" but a " state" and not a " township" but a town, or a county, whichever applies. Also, no one I've ever talked to, or listened to lecture as a professional of great esteem in modern times uses the term " Fortnight" for a period of time meaning 2 weeks. They say " two weeks", or 14 days, or give the dates " April 1 through April 14" inclusively.

I didn't mean " He sought out someone who looked like his second ex wife",. no. I meant, MAYBE there was a woman who was of taller statue, a curvy kind of figure, who had longer hair, was feminine in appearance and dress more so than the two women we have seen photos of whom he spent the longest number of years of his life with. Just one of those, " If you are going to the trouble to drive out and wait to meet someone, pick someone who is totally worth the effort" pretty, vivacious, with that special something. You and I both had double takes when we looked at the two women at the pressers, one his first wife, the other, his last known girlfriend. They were the two most similar looking women with rather unusual features in common I've ever seen who weren't related, but "picked" by the same man many years apart.. It's likely moot.
IF the car hadn't been found in the parking lot, this would be treated more as a crime, not a walkaway, and would have been and would be more deeply investigated, IMO.
Or, he made a huge error in judgment which no one can really fathom.. Likely, it resulted in his demise, but could have put him into WitSec, or ( I hate to bring this up but I really must if we are to consider ALL the possibilities) into a fugue state mentally which landed him as a John Doe in a long term state mental facility, or the like. A very meticulous person having a mental break could do irreparable harm to the psyche of any person. Not that I think he is locked in some state institution as John Doe in 2017. No, I definitely don't think this is so, but it IS possible. Some of this is still left open because there is the unknown factor of how he would have gotten out of Lewisburg. IF he got out of Lewisburg alive, how did he do so?
If there is no precedence in the person's background for such a thing, then it is grasping at straws to try to fill in the blanks. Lord knows, we've tried and mostly failed for MANY YEARS to successfully describe his leaving Lewisburg with the Mini Cooper parked in the parking lot, so obviously parked in the empty or nearly empty section of the lot..

There almost has to be another person involved if he left the town alive. We don't know who, we have NO clues as to whom, or why, or how he left Lewisburg dependent on others for his transportation... with a new sports car left parked, left behind- why?

IF, and this is a huge hypothetical IF now, so many years later, but IF there had been another person who went missing from the same general area in the same general time frame, then I could believe that both left for the same reason, or were killed and the bodies hidden for the same reasons. As far as we know, there is no link to another missing or murdered person.

I still wonder about WitSec, but unless he was able to plan, or have a totally secure source plan an international transport and alternative ID in advance, I still believe he might have been spotted by now if he lived in the US past April 15 or April 16.. Also, he would have needed the help of SOMEONE in LE to get him out of Lewisburg to wherever he was going. Likely a fairly high level clearance type of transport, maybe above the state police level, either FBI, or if international, maybe even CIA. Depending on why he would have possibly, in any stretch of the imagination, have needed permanent and speedy relocation for his or a loved one's directly threatened and jeopardized life/ safety.

That scenario of getting him into Witness Protection and keeping him there requires so many " ifs" and needs and plans, it does not fit the principle of Occam's Razor, which is a very good principle to adhere to when trying to solve the unsolved. I'd hire around the clock bodyguards and take my chances with a full life of my own choosing rather than to go into WitSec and leave loved ones behind. Missing a daughter, a grandchild, all the life events, never celebrating another birthday with anyone who mattered to me.. No Christmas memories allowed to be spoken of, no traditions could be carried forth, not even a favorite chair or piece of music could follow. No identifying brands and types of cars or clothing, nothing that was familiar and liked, not to even mention, those who were loved. I would not choose to leave. I would stay and use money to fight the evildoers with armed bodyguards. Eventually, one side would win out, and I would know there was a chance of dying from the outset.
This assumes the person making the choice to stay and fight is of sound mind and body. I THINK Ray was physically well and mentally healthy, but if you read certain things on other sites, some valid questions are raised about both health aspects.

HIPAA is a great law. As a health care professional who worked under the strict guidelines of HIPAA, I support it, but it has restricted what we can know if a person doesn't make the condition or conditions public on their own. Sometimes, they " would have" if they " could have" but circumstances of illness prevented this.

Neither family members without legal power of attorney, nor Police are able to tell the public " Well, Mr. Jones had himself a mental break due to long- standing depressive disorder, untreated. We took him to Shady Pines in our locked patrol car for his personal safety and he will likely live there under supervised professional care until or unless he recovers sufficiently to not be deemed a harm to himself or others in the community (or township or burg.)"

New era, and I think it MIGHT affect SOME missing persons cases now and in the future. We simply do NOT have a " right to know" anything about anyone other than our own selves. Not even a spouse, unless we are in immediate danger from that spouse, or unless we need to have a court-ordered 5150, Baker Act, or similar short term involuntary evaluation conducted for their and our safety. Some states hand out 5150's like candy, in some, the states' rights are SO strong that there is great resistance. I've seen both extremes enacted or failed to be enacted with clients I definitely thought needed immediate attention to emotional health and safety.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just briefly two respond. BG, RFG's first wife, had raised the possibility, early on, that he had suffered from a mini stroke and was confused and couldn't find his way home, a physical cause. There is also also the above mentioned fugue state. Another possibility would be amnesia, due to an injury, e.g. he fell and hit his head. All of these are unlikely, because there were no reports of a confused man wandering around. He'd also have to have gotten out of Lewisburg somehow.

LE did subpoena RFG's medical records and said that they didn't show anything. A very debilitating or fatal disease could be a reason for suicide. Law enforcement didn't disclose any, my sources indicate there wasn't anything, and it wouldn't explain the lack of a body.

WitSec has several problems.

1. RFG is not known to have witnessed anything. Even with the PSU Scandal, nobody, well no adult, seems to have been facing a physical threat.

2. WitSec tells a member of the family and they would not have been likely to have established a reward to find him.

3. RFG was a public figure, and his disappearance would generate a lot of press. Let's face it, it was almost 12 years ago, and we're still talking about it. WitSec either would have created a cover story, e,g. Gricar died while visiting his daughter, or, they would have waited a few months and announced that RFG was in WitSec. They wouldn't want the publicity a mysterious disappearance generated.

 

[SeekingJana]

^^ No need for me to quote what you post, as we know on WS, our words are here to stay.

I agree with you that WitSec is likely something we WISH had happened.. Did it? We don't know but some inactions by Lara could be due to her knowing he is or was alive. I'd like to respectfully point out that for his " legal declaration of death" hearing, she was not present. Gave phone statements or video Skype type statement, but did not appear, and was not legally required to appear.. but maybe most of us would have done this differently if it was our parent.

Also, again, I know this is a kind of touchy area for a lot of people, but there has never been a memorial service. IF Ray was almost destitute, and the family was impoverished, I can see why they might have not held any type of memorial service with maybe a permanent marker in a cemetery or even another type of memorial on city grounds, as some prominent figures do have in their honor.
Does this mean he's not dead and someone knows he's not? I don't think so, but I'm not a PA resident, and there may be cultural differences at play in the past and now too. His nephews are still his adult nephews, his daughter is still his adult daughter, but his girlfriend moved out and everyone's life has gone forward all these years.
Did they ever consider a memorial service as a form of public honor and remembrance? Did they ever discuss putting up a permanent marker in a cemetery to mark the life of such a helping man in his legal profession? As a loving father? I do not know.
I've never even seen any discussion about a memorial to Ray Gricar in all these years, unless one of us has raised the question.

If it were my daddy, and I AM quite a bit like Lara, I am an adopted daughter and only child of my father's through adoption, which makes me no less his daughter, I would have had a memorial service for him shortly after he was legally declared deceased that was open to the public, and I would have had personal security there that was tight if I had lingering fears for my safety. I also would have spent a bit of the inheritance we believe she likely received to have a lasting monument placed that honored his life, and legally, the date of death could be the last known date he was seen- April 15, 2005, or the date he was declared legally dead, which would probably have been my own personal choice, as it is the only real closure this case has had that we are aware of.

I had thought that one person might have to be notified with regards to the leavetaking in WitSec, but in Ray's case, I'm not sure that Lara was a legal adult when he disappeared, Patty was not a legal relative, and the eldest nephew, Tony, has been the most vocal about " finding him", so I think that's out. Also, agree with you that obviously, to the best of our knowledge, he was not threatened in any unusual manner just prior to his disappearance. And that there is likely money which cannot be found, in the absence of a forensic financial investigation.. Which wasn't done. Sigh.

But, remember- I have paid close attention to the death of a Texas sitting DA and a sitting Texas DA who had severe emotional traumas which precluded her from fulfilling her duty to the office, several hospitalizations for rehab. due to substance abuse, another for mental issues ( believed to be depression but not otherwise specified), and those events changed the way I look at the overall security level and ability to perform the duties of a high profile job such as a DA has.

I paid attention to everything that unfolded in both cases close to where I live because of Ray's missing status.
It leaves me with a slightly more serious impression that he could have had a killer after him, or could have had issues that were personal in nature that were deeply hidden. The DA known in this area with personal issues DID keep her personal life private until after her election. She had the problems prior to the election, but no one spoke out, apparently. Her ex husband was vindictive, and so was her first assistant DA, whom she fired, either justly or unjustly. The justification for the firing was always unclear.

However, two angry men alerted the media that there were unusual goings on in this DA's personal life, and they sensationalized it to the max for over 2 years. Who can perform under that kind of pressure and scrutiny? I couldn't have. It was horrible, and by " it" I mean, just the parts that did make the nightly news, not the day to day living that the DA had to do with a hostile staff, and with a newly broken home life as well.
But her ex husband, her fired staff, others in the DA office unduly painted an X on her back because of their needs for revenge, and called it " concerns that the constituency needs to know before they go to trial in Dallas".
They did not consider her to be a person in need who was getting help, they considered her to be a target.

In a different environment where there is congeniality and support born from years or knowing and working with a person, rather than negativity, anger, and mistrust towards a new DA who happened to have the worst possible set of circumstances collide with her election, would the DA have a chance to get the help he or she needed without public outcries for dismissal? I think so, because a DA is a person first, a DA second. All people are due the right of privacy under HIPAA.

At some point, if a person could not get back on their feet personally, yes, they would need to resign. She did so, and I hope she finds happiness and stability out of the public eye.
I would hope the same thing if this had happened to Ray Gricar. Obviously, it didn't. There are no long periods of days to weeks of absence in his career, as far as we know. If there were, it is still protected information. I am not sure that it could be protected this long, however, whether he is deceased or alive.

I also learned through the recent experience in Dallas that a DA can have enormous problems and can hide them for periods of time, because she did keep quite a lot of her personal problems private when she was chosen by the people of Dallas to serve as DA. . As in " Kept her life private" not " Didn't seek treatment" as far as I know.

I learned from the shooting deaths of a DA and his wife that sometimes, elected officials are held to standards which are ridiculously high by unstable people who were rightfully terminated. That unstable people will and can gun down their targets, in this case the DA and the Sheriff, without regard for their own eventual personal outcome. I call that set of circumstances a form of insanity. Not necessarily legal criteria for insanity, but the actions of an insane person to mow down that many people over being fired from a fairly menial job. ( as I see it, it was fairly menial).

Both of the cases I have followed since Ray disappeared involve irrational and cruel acts. There is mental disorder behind each DA's outcome. While that does not mean that his disappearance was voluntary, it does make me wonder and give slightly more credence to needing to get away right then, rather than a few months later, when he would retire.

I keep remembering the court discussion where he told the judge that he would not " be there" for a future planned meeting or hearing.. He was not speaking of a date past his retirement date, but one much closer in. Why did he say that? Maybe a slip up because there were plans known only to him and one other person regarding leave- taking?
IF a person is faced with public humiliation, as the Dallas DA came to find out too late, or if a person is threatened and has reason to take the threat seriously, but doesn't speak out about it, as happened in Texas to the other DA, then doesn't " just leaving it all behind" make a lot of sense for the sake of life and personal safety? If he felt he could protect himself better than those around him in LE could protect him, which I DO believe he thought, then he was smart enough to make a plan and get out, I think.
I believe he would have had to leave the USA through means that involved some possible subterfuge, as his legal name likely could not be used while he was an actively sought missing person,but after that, he was free and clear.
No ties to any office, to any constituency, to any college's scandals and politics, or to an AG that he likely didn't like at all, and may have had great reason to distrust.

Life comes before career, before the love for others, before any other needs, the need and will to live is foremost.
He was smarter than the 2 Texas DAs, I think. I believe that if he had any sense of " I am going to be harmed" or " This is not going to go well for me", he could have left as he was single, was free under the laws of the US constitution to do things his way. If secrecy was called for, we are pretty darned sure that he exercised secrecy and discretion to the utmost.

IF he disregarded threats like many seasoned elected officials learn to do ( My own father had death threats for years and he was a head of a government department which doesn't even deal with the public except to issue statements about the work in progress, usually through a friendly media presence) then I am sure Ray received many threats of harm. My daddy retired exactly when he had planned to for all his career, with 30 years/' service. He retired with honor and with a great deal of positive sentiment and acclaim for the service he had rendered to those who had appointed him to his position. However, because he was only 50 years old, I do not think he had a productive life after retirement. When retirement is the goal of all goals, then nothing comes after it.
Is this what Ray was seeing in his life? A few car trips here and there Patty, who cannot be described as a dynamic and thrill-seeking person. Did he choose the road less traveled, metaphorically, and leave his life behind? I know a lot of posters think this, and I'm not sure, not even today. Thinking about my own daddy, his pressures in public life, his long-standing goal of retirement at the 30 year mark, Ray seems to be or have been looking forward to retirement, but was he really? Did he see what I saw when my daddy retired? A long- active and productive man who parked his body at the house, and had a massive 5 vessel bypass 2-3 years later, and who mainly lived for his wife, his daughter ( to a lesser extent, certainly) and then for a grandchild, but not really living any one day for himself ever?

We know of ONE DAY Ray F. Gricar lived for himself, the day he took off to see the Cleveland Indians play baseball, and his wife at the time, made it into a news event. I'd loathe her too, just for that one thing being blown out of proportion and making news when it was a personal choice and not newsworthy, but did make him look " less than responsible".

Much to think about, from our very varying points of view based on what each of us have seen, have known, and what little we think we do know about Ray Gricar until the day he disappeared, either through a fatal act which left no body, or through a living body and a sharp mind leaving on his own terms. IF there was a great deal of cash waiting for him elsewhere, then surely someone knows this by now and knows where he likely went- where the money was.
I think the events in 2001, in 9/11, may have drastically changed our banking laws, and offshore banking laws to the point where leaving to go to the money was maybe the best or only choice he had IF he had internationally placed liquid assets.
Maybe he planned to return quickly, and something waylaid him. Maybe harm came to him because of the possible large sum of money.
Maybe he was too embarrassed by being in the national media to return, if he had a good alternative place to go and live, and have a full happy life, without Lara and her future being a part of his life. I do not know if all daddies love their daughters as much as mine loved me, but I do not think my daddy would have left me or his grandchild to go anywhere but heaven, when illness took him away.

However, if I had an inkling that either of my parents had been in jeopardy, I would have grieved for my loss of them, but I would have urged them to get to safety no matter what the emotional cost to me. That's what love is. Putting the other person first, putting their safety ahead of personal want if it came to that point when I was an adult ( it didn't).
I would have wanted my daddy to be alive and well more than I would have wanted him in danger and where I could call him, see him twice a year at most because I lived 4000 miles away.. sure. No need to think more than a second about the issue of personal safety vs. selfishness of a family member. I would do what Lara may have done, and let it be.

I don't know if we will ever see this case publicly resolved, but it has been solved, we just don't have the solution at hand. He is either alive and well,having left Lewisburg or elsewhere alive and well, or was killed or otherwise died near April 15, 2005. Death is permanent, coming and going aren't. I don't think there's ever been such a high profile missing persons case other than Jimmy Hoffa's ( for an entirely opposite reason) which had so much attention, and then over the years, died down to absolutely no interest or continued ways to investigate what might have happened or where a body might be located, or in Ray's case, best possible outcome- the whereabouts of a living senior adult now, or just an official statement that he is alive, or he is deceased. Closure. Humans want closure, even if it is horribly final. We know that death comes for all of us some day, and I think most of us rate " He died" near the top of possible outcomes since the beginning.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

On April 1, 2011, I received a personal message from Steve Sloane on Facebook. It was unsolicted. At the time I was writing a blog on Ray Gricar at another paper.


In the message, Sloane indicated that he was involved in the 1998 case with Gricar. He stated that it "RG's decision NOT to prosecute if he received help with the problem... "


After the Freeh Report came out, I became worried that the investigators did not know of this. I got in contract with the investigators and turned this information over to them in August 2012.

I will be willing to post a copy of the message, with the mod's consent. It will involve me revealing my own identity.

 

[Trackergd]

On April 1, 2011, I received a personal message from Steve Sloane on Facebook. It was unsolicted. At the time I was writing a blog on Ray Gricar at another paper.


In the message, Sloane indicated that he was involved in the 1998 case with Gricar. He stated that it "RG's decision NOT to prosecute if he received help with the problem... "


After the Freeh Report came out, I became worried that the investigators did not know of this. I got in contract with the investigators and turned this information over to them in August 2012.

I will be willing to post a copy of the message, with the mod's consent. It will involve me revealing my own identity.

Forward the message to the mod, when approved, post a redacted copy [your name] and have the mod approve it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Until I get approval, I will be happy to send a copy anyone who requests it (and sends me an e-mail).

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

Just briefly two respond. BG, RFG's first wife, had raised the possibility, early on, that he had suffered from a mini stroke and was confused and couldn't find his way home, a physical cause. There is also also the above mentioned fugue state. Another possibility would be amnesia, due to an injury, e.g. he fell and hit his head. All of these are unlikely, because there were no reports of a confused man wandering around. He'd also have to have gotten out of Lewisburg somehow.

LE did subpoena RFG's medical records and said that they didn't show anything. A very debilitating or fatal disease could be a reason for suicide. Law enforcement didn't disclose any, my sources indicate there wasn't anything, and it wouldn't explain the lack of a body.

WitSec has several problems.

1. RFG is not known to have witnessed anything. Even with the PSU Scandal, nobody, well no adult, seems to have been facing a physical threat.

2. WitSec tells a member of the family and they would not have been likely to have established a reward to find him.

3. RFG was a public figure, and his disappearance would generate a lot of press. Let's face it, it was almost 12 years ago, and we're still talking about it. WitSec either would have created a cover story, e,g. Gricar died while visiting his daughter, or, they would have waited a few months and announced that RFG was in WitSec. They wouldn't want the publicity a mysterious disappearance generated.

I am still wondering about Clara Baron the Song case and well was she on the RG missing case Wilksberrie Pa came up in both and Clara had words about someone was not batting A 1.000

 

[BigCat]

Until I get approval, I will be happy to send a copy anyone who requests it (and sends me an e-mail).

JJ, are you by posting on BWI? I thought I recognized you there.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ, are you by posting on BWI? I thought I recognized you there.

You might well think that. I couldn't possibly comment. :giggle:

 

[BigCat]

You might well think that. I couldn't possibly comment. :giggle:

If so, then you really stepped in the lion's den (get it? lion's den. haha). But seriously...whoever that poster is I can't pull up his previous posts. I have a feeling the admin have limited said poster's profile.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If so, then you really stepped in the lion's den (get it? lion's den. haha). But seriously...whoever that poster is I can't pull up his previous posts. I have a feeling the admin have limited said poster's profile.

I believe there is a new poster. You can PM me if you would like.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I thought that this was interesting and possibly relevant; it deals with a PA murder case where there is no body. http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/03/jury_selection_date_set_in_25-.html#incart_river_homePAv

 

[minazoe]

It's a cold case that should be reopened. The ashes in the car bother me..could it have been a joint..? could he have smoked a doob? I know he did not smoke and was fussy about his mini so how do we come to have ashes in the car? I feel like he had something to cover up, to hide.

would you smoke a doob , listen to some tunes, drive around , dump your hard drive and then dive off a bridge? maybe, right? I mean suicide is so
random, there are no real reliable rituals around it, some people never show their unhappiness outwardly. However one thing I do know for sure,
a lot of suicidal people try more than once to kill themselves and have a history or suicidal ideation and depression.

Some people become psychotic, as in the case of a friend who planned his death and hung himself in the woods after several years of not being able to cope with reality and living with undiagnosed but probably schizoid disorder.

then there are the suicides that cannot handle a life event such as a break up or a deadly disease.

Could a life in retirement have been anathema to him, could he not cope with some emptiness and and a count down to eventual nursing home, old age etc..?

I just think his behavior was a little odd in the days preceding, there was definitely something going on. The night he went to his office, a sense of urgency there..the laptop.. so he definitely did not go to lewisberg, dump his hard drive, smoke cigarettes in his car and then become incoherent and end up in an institution as a john doe..

the cigarette or joint ash has always bothered me... the proximity of the car to the hard drive and the lack of a body.

did he ever talk about fantasies he had of just say going to key west and becoming anonymous?

And why doesn't the family demand the case be reopened?

I truly believe he would have left a note...some kind of instruction, some reassurance, something to comfort and guide his daughter.

so knowing all of this I think he was murdered and probably due to some kind of tangle he got into with the wrong people. He definitely was hiding something and this case needs to be solved..he was a public figure and he is a cold case..unacceptable!

I also think the family knows but will never say.:moo::moo::moo:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped:

It's a cold case that should be reopened. The ashes in the car bother me..could it have been a joint..? could he have smoked a doob? I know he did not smoke and was fussy about his mini so how do we come to have ashes in the car? I feel like he had something to cover up, to hide.

When they opened the car, the police smelled tobacco smoke. I think they determined that it was cigarette ashes on the floor.

From everything I've heard, RFG never even tried marijuana in college. For a man if his generation, that is unusual.

The case is not closed, though it is cold.

 

[minazoe]

secret personal laptop screams something illicit to me...maybe he really never recovered sufficiently from his brothers suicide and needed to experience it for himself, to absolve himself somehow, maybe he was stuck on it and it was always at the front of his mind and he was tired of it.

I am trying to imagine someone who seems so sane, but maybe thats exactly it..the safe conservative girlfriend , compensating for an underlying desperation and probably ptsd from the suicide.

he was a bit of a ladies man , I can see that, sort of, he's not unattractive.

but i just think when i put together

the proximity of the car to the disk drive

the disk drive being destroyed

the ash in the car at the location he was last seen

the sighting

so something was going on--- we don't know if he was the one who disposed of the hard drive---we don't know who smoked the cig.

so he was seen there, his car was there, his hard drive was there, he went there in his car, he took his laptop there, someone was smoking, he was never seen again.

maybe he met a hooker there for a last hurrah
but someone who smokes was involved in this in some way.

and that means another person.

I think if he was in witness protection they would have taken care of his hard drive .

they should go over the car again for dna, blood, trace evidence.

I still find his girlfriend so suspicious, I don't know why but she just rubs me.