IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #42

[slanda]

Holy crap! Awesome post. I didn't even think about that. That would have made things so much easier with the disposal of any evidence as well. Wow. Yea,... this place is like a dream come true for certain types of criminals. A stream, a remote popular hike spot, a dump, a high bridge w/ few means for escape. Man.. Good thinking!

Just jumping off your post in reference to RL's trip to the refuse transfer center:

Actually, believe it or not, I think this piece of information is helpful to RL. We know the transfer center closes at 4:00pm and the Abby's pic of BG was @2:30.

In theory, That gives RL less than 1.5 hours to "walk/force" the girls to his property, do god only knows what, murder them, (maybe also clean them off in the river and clean himself off in the river *complete speculation on my part), collect whatever evidence from the scene, go back to his house to more than likely clean up better (with soap at least since he will be seen in public), put said evidence in garbage bags, then get in his truck to get to the transfer station before it closes at 4:00pm.

That's a lot, IMO. Also, and most importantly: Landfills have specific protocols of how they dispose of refuse so garbage can be found by knowing when it came in. IMO, taking evidence himself (where people keep records and give receipts) to a transfer center on the day the girls were murdered would be the most idiotic thing RL or anyone could do if they didn't want to get caught.

This part of Indiana is not urban. It would make so much more sense if a person who just committed a gruesome murder to not go personally to the dump and drop their trash there after they just got done killing two girls. It would make more sense for that said person to burn it, bury it, throw it into a river 50 miles away, throw it in a random dumpster, etc... But not take it immediately to a transfer center where the evidence could be tracked and traced specifically back to him. Honestly. :facepalm:


Here is a link re: How LE finds evidence at landfills http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...naev_laptop_how_do_you_search_a_landfill.html

 

[Spiritecho]

Question for legal types: The term "on or about" a specific date appears twice in the document discussing probation violation. is this:
a) Standard legal nomenclature used even when LE thinks they know the correct date?
or
b) Evidence that the correct date is not known?

In our state and our law office...On or About is a standard thing...we have even put on or about a time on pleadings...

as
1. On or about 12/25/2016, at approximately 12:12 am, Santa entered the home....

 

[Bemused]

So.. the Transfer Station is on 1295 N. 625 West, that is very interesting. There are not many residents on that road. Anyone living in that area could use the Monon Highbridge as a shortcut.On another note, if RL went to the CCTS (great find!) on Monday, February 13th, I am wondering, if he drove himself (according to the doc), gave someone a ride, or if someone else drove him? LE would know by now, if there are surveillance cameras at the CCTS.

If RL indeed drove to Lafayette, perhaps he hit the CCTS first and then proceeded straight on to Highway 25 to Lafayette to get his fish, if that actually happened - unless someone else drove at some point and RL was dropped of at the SE end of the bridge, or RL drove himself and still dropped someone else off at the SE end of the bridge ( access road N 625 W).

All IMO

-Nin

Wonder if clothing like a blue jacket, a phone or a backpack was recovered from CCTS.

 

[relay]

Question for legal types: The term "on or about" a specific date appears twice in the document discussing probation violation. is this:
a) Standard legal nomenclature used even when LE thinks they know the correct date?
or
b) Evidence that the correct date is not known?

I think it is likely that he drove to the transfer station on 02/13. I found this. It is my medical paralegal mind that pays attention to detail and makes me follow facts and be meticulous.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/on_or_about

"Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary

A phrase used in a civil complaint or criminal charge that refers to a date or place. It is used to protect the person making the allegations of fact from being challenged as inaccurate. Thus, a complaint will read "On or about July 11, 2009, Defendant drove his vehicle negligently and without due care on or about the corner of Sunset and Vine Streets..."

 

[Jethro4WS]

I think the point of him going to the transfer station on the day the girls were killed.....IMO is that LE has tracked his phone and it shows from his property to the trash to where? Lafayette?
Therefore, they are verifying pings? Anyone know about any video from the transfer station? surely LE asked and received if available.

LE has to be able to prove RL was driving. You can't do that by phone pings because RL could be in someone else's vehicle as a passenger.

In this case there is likely video of RL driving into the transfer station or there is an image of his truck (rather than video) that shows only one person in the vehicle and it is him. Of course, RL could have simply admitted to driving in an interview with police or they have witnesses that are willing to testify they saw him driving.

 

[otto]

Thank you! I wonder what time he was at the transfer station. Was it around 1:30PM?

 

[tokyorose]

I have to wonder if LE did a search of the transfer station ? ? ?

I was wondering the same thing. It would be good to know if he routinely went to the transfer station. If he went every Monday, or every other Monday then although a probation violation, this wouldn't be something that would link him to Abbey and Libby's murder, but if he had trash pick up and this wasn't part of his routine, then it could be suspicious.

 

[No it's not]

It seems rather obvious, depending on whether he was there between 1PM and 5:30PM, that he could have seen a parked vehicle at that location - as that location is ideal for leaving the crime scene. He returned home at 6:30, which is a time when the girls were very likely deceased (most children are murdered within 2 hours of abduction ... sorry, no link). Does he have fishing/hunting hobbies, or friends, family, work in Iowa? Is this a serial murderer who is murdering closer to home?

BBM

This! And for the record, I do not think RL is the murderer, whether he turns out to be the POI/BG or not.

-Nin

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

Yep. It covers them in case of typos/clerical errors.

That's standard language if you read legal documents. On or about is how I've always seen it worded but maybe one of the lawyers will know for sure.

 

[tokyorose]

I am perplexed by that requirement. What was RL supposed to do with that vehicle when he was put on probation? Sell his vehicle? That isn't mentioned in the court information on his probation orders.

There are ways to store a vehicle, perhaps that's what is required. Honestly, the court probably doesn't care what you do with it as long as you can't use it. Sell it, put it in storage, give it to a friend to drive until probation is over... a lot of options.

 

[Bemused]

IMO RL feels he is above the law!!! There is a reason he received a felony conviction for his last DUI. He is still drinking and still driving. The rules just don't apply to him. Delphi is a small town and people including LE know he is not allowed to drive. IMO he took a huge risk on 2/13!!!! That was the flaw in his plan if he is BG.

In general, people with substance abuse problems tend to make bad decisions while they're under the influence. People, in general, can become more angry and paranoid as well under the influence. If the killer has such a problem I can see it escalating due to the pressure and/or guilt after the fact of something horrific happening. Maybe blacking out as well. IMO

 

[Spiritecho]

LE has to be able to prove RL was driving. You can't do that by phone pings because RL could be in someone else's vehicle as a passenger.

In this case there is likely video of RL driving into the transfer station or there is an image of his truck (rather than video) that shows only one person in the vehicle and it is him. Of course, RL could have simply admitted to driving in an interview with police or they have witnesses that are willing to testify they saw him driving.

Of course, Jethro..

Your phone pings whether you are driving yourself, a passenger, on a bus, train, kite, whatever...
What I mean by that is, AFTER the fact, like when they were preparing the search warrant and the like, they subpoenaed his phone records.

 

[Jabarn]

Thank you! I wonder what time he was at the transfer station. Was it around 1:30PM?

It can't be that easy... or can it?

 

[Bemused]

Maybe he had kept it parked across the street to honor those terms? Is the "across the street" maybe a neighbor's property?

When the white truck was placed on the flatbed on the day it was seized, I was under the impression it was actually parked on RL's property. Anyone?

 

[CarolAnn]

How was this Petition for Revocation of Probation document obtained? Is there a link?

 

[FreeRoad]

I agree with you. The sight of 2 murdered kids is enough to shake the most hardened of LE. I don't believe there is anything else to it. If he didn't notice her filming, I don't think he has the skills to upload to the dark net. I have accessed it for research for my books. It isn't like just getting on FB and sharing a picture.

Have you concluded that only one person is involved in this crime, and if so, what convinced you?

 

[SeattleSue]

This is disturbing . . .

 

[otto]

BBM

This! And for the record, I do not think RL is the murderer, whether he turns out to be the POI/BG or not.

-Nin

This is the first time I've been suspicious of him - especially because there are starting to be too many coincidences.
Two girls were murdered on his property when he was parked at a location to easily abduct the girls, and easily leave the scene after the murders. His timeline of returning home at 6:30 corresponds with the timeline of a suspect who abducted two girls at 2:20-ish and murdered them within two hours.

He probably lied to police about his activities that day, knowing that two girls were missing. I would rather tell the truth about driving without permission than put myself on the radar for two murders. His truck was taken for examination because he is a suspect in the abduction and murder of the girls. Investigators are probably very suspicious of the time when he was at the transfer station, he probably fits the timeline for the murders, and he is not cooperating anymore.

 

[Jethro4WS]

He is accused of drinking in public on or about Feb 27, 2 weeks after the girls were killed. I cant comprehend how RL could be so casual about a behavior that could land him in jail for years. Especially with all the police around. The fact that all the attention resulted in him being caught supports my point that he should have considered this and changed his behavior.

Americus is about 9 miles from his house. Were people following the guy around? Was LE pulling his credit card transactions and then collecting receipts at the Pizza Place?

 

[skibaboo]

I hope that someone who has more familiarity with the exact locations of the transfer station, the bridge, the bodies, and the property owner's house can post a map.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=195lcn7G7VGC-TkdJirxwNf6o9xM&ll=40.57835675759276%2C-86.65336396067067&z=13

I've added the Transfer Station to the case map