IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #43

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Compression can look a lot like cloning artifacts, though, especially in under-exposed video. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I believe there's no way to definitively tell LE did any such thing.

Personally, based on my own work experience, we're just looking at a perfect example of how terrible compressed smartphone video can look.

JMO

Somewhat new to the forum and this case. I'm still reading through all the posts.

I'm work in video/photo post production for a living. A couple things with the BG pic. It is absolutely modified from its raw file. The blurry parts are a result of what we call 'cloning'. It is a tool that is used to essentially clone from another part of the picture to cover something up in another part. I'm surprised.. because it is a horrible job for such a high profile case. It can be done and not be noticed at all. I'm guessing they put the trees back in to cover either a finger or coat that was over the lens.

I have no idea what they cloned out of the bottom right of the frame.

The poster who adjusted the top right of BG's head..had the right idea and did a nice job for a first attempt. Probably better than LE's photo manipulation!

There is also a pixelated section on BG's right foot that doesn't match the resolution of the rest of the picture. It was added in or taken from another frame of video and over-sharpened.

The shadow on BG's right leg is wrong. It doesn't follow the angle of light and the 'light falloff' is way off. That was adjusted for some reason also.


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Is it just me, or is there clearly something off with one of his legs? almost as if (if it were a video) he has an injured or disfigured leg that would cause a limp or an awkward gait?

I thought it looked like his right leg and hip swing out a bit in the animated 2 photo pic someone did. But if it isn't sequential frames it may be nothing.
 
IMO, it's probable that it COULD take up to that long, depending on backlog, etc, and that stating it as such is a psychological ploy for a suspect who may be in custody or know that LE is on his trail. The longer a perp sweats, the more likely a confession. DNA may well be back. LE may be waiting on a single piece of evidence, or may simply be waiting on the prosecutor to write up the totality to be present to the judge for formal charges, if they already have their suspect identified. One thing I have no doubt about is that in a case like this, they will be extraordinarily careful to have every single piece of evidence processed meticulously before they file formal charges or release the info to the public. IMO, the arguments that they don't already have the test results back are probably incorrect. I believe they are just following protocol to the absolute nth degree.
i just posted this link a bit ago to how long it takes to get DNA back by state, but did not notice at the time of that posting that it says that DNA takes 6 weeks in the state of Indiana with a suspect. That is just how long LE said it would be to get the results back from their search of RL's property. However, it shows rush homicide as two weeks. Why would it take so much longer with a suspect?

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/rpt/2010-R-0086.htm
 
Compression can look a lot like cloning artifacts, though, especially in under-exposed video. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I believe there's no way to definitively tell LE did any such thing.

Personally, based on my own work experience, we're just looking at a perfect example of how terrible compressed smartphone video can look.

JMO

I tend to agree with you. To my eye, the "blurry" areas read as compression artifacts rather than subpar cloning.
 
Is it just me, or is there clearly something off with one of his legs? almost as if (if it were a video) he has an injured or disfigured leg that would cause a limp or an awkward gait?

Do you mean the way he appears to be moving awkwardly? There's been some discussion of that and speculation IIRC that he's pigeon-toed or just walking awkwardly because of the huge gaps in the bridge.
 
The photo of BG is so blurry I think it could be a Kardashian and we would not recognize the person!
Also, the photos apoear to have been altered in some way.
Investigators seemed to think that someone who knows him would recognize him even though the photos are poor..
So is it possible something other than the face is what they think someone would recognize if they know him?
I am thinking that if there was some sort of signature or similarity to other crimes could something bg is wearing be connected to that. Hence the billboards.

http://www.damehelen.com/clothing/fabric101.pdf
 
I guess we do not know if RL submitted DNA for this investigation and it seems to be doubtful whether his was in the system. He may have given one if he did it before 3/17, but since that date his lawyer may have advised him to do nothing. I don't think he can be compelled to provide a sample unless he is charged? So it may be that LE does not know what his status is, as far as the murders go.
 
Great input. I have believed that when Libby was taking the video the stills were taken from, her phone was upside down in her hand, facing backwards and she was trying to film him closing on them without his knowledge. Would a swinging arm cause any of these issues? Or since he may have still been some distance behind them, what about attempting to zoom while filming? Thanks

Thank you. I don't really know the specifics of the case..but that could definitely be what they cloned out..if her coat or finger got in the way.

There are two main types of blur:

Motion blur: if your shutter speed isn't fast enough. In this case..anything moving faster than the shutter speed will be blurry. That doesn't come into play here as BG is the only movement and he is essentially the sharpest part of the photo.

Camera shake blur: if Libby were moving the phone fast and it wasn't steady..the whole picture would be blurry..not specific sections. There is also a rare scenario that she could be moving in the same direction and speed as BG. In that case..BG would be sharp and anything stationary would be blurry(the entire background).


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All valid points. And I'm fine with people discussing RL. But weeks later it's like beating the proverbial horse when there is really very little info available.

I do find it odd they waited 5 weeks to go back and check or recheck certain areas.

People can discuss RL until they are blue in the face. It doesn't bother me. Maybe he did do it, maybe he didn't. The frustrating part for me personally is that there really isn't a lot the public has to work with. I hope it's different behind the scenes and I'm sure it is at times. It's one of those rare cases where we actually have a picture of a person and we aren't any closer than weeks ago. Again, hopefully it's different behind the scenes.

I agree. If there's no new info, it doesn't accomplish anything.

This. If we were a jury, I think we'd be hung. I can see how it happens. One of the things that interests me here is how logically and differently we approach things. I'm interested in others experiences because they can be so different from mine, and they can see natural routine behavior in something that is totally outside my experience. I try to think of that when I see something that makes me go "seriously"?
ETA - I'm still on the fence, but I respect where Gitana is going with these thoughts.


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But this is an example sort of what I'm talking about. I'm on the fence too. I have no idea who did this horrible crime. But because I defend the logic of merely considering RL, people think I have a theory! Nope. Totally open. I would not be surprised by any outcome, probably.

Great work, WebSight. It goes to show you, we can stare at this over and over and still have have someone share new insight, etc. LE has told us, as well as MP, to really focus on this picture.

It's incredible work. Amazing. First, for WebSight to even notice the small inconsistencies, then to figure out what the problem might be and finally to be able to fix it! Pretty cool.

RL served as an electronics technician seaman on the USS Monrovia in 1959 (Mediterranean). Non-combat. The below is the insignia. Navy. Early on in previous threads, many people were trying to figure out what insignia BG had on him. Does this help??

https://newspaperarchive.com/delphi...rp=tags/ronald-e-logan?pc=7261&pci=7/&psi=38/

Rating insignia

I frankly don't know how anyone can make out anything o even determine he had some sort of insignia. It's just blurry to me.

Could this make one appear slimmer? Also, could the distance of the photo make one appear slimmer? I agree any defense attorney would have a hard time convincing a jury this is definitively RL.

An attorney would have a hard time convincing a jury this is anyone specific, IMO, although WebSight made it much clearer. The only thing that might help maybe is if someone testifies, "I saw the photo and recognized...".

As a newbie I know we are not allowed to post rumors but once again I ask where were his neighbors who have maintained their silence?
Who in the local community benefits if he is arrested for these murders and has to use his farm as collateral?
Many people of my age who live in small communities have seen the local drunks (sorry as I do not use this term to degrade anyone with alcohol issues)
accused of crimes they had absolutely nothing to do with
Its far easier to blame someone who suffers from alcohol issues than to believe there are real demons living among us.

Do you think LE got probable cause to search RL's property because he's a drunk? Think a judge would sign off on that warrant?
 
I guess we do not know if RL submitted DNA for this investigation and it seems to be doubtful whether his was in the system. He may have given one if he did it before 3/17, but since that date his lawyer may have advised him to do nothing. I don't think he can be compelled to provide a sample unless he is charged? So it may be that LE does not know what his status is, as far as the murders go.

If LE had reason in the early days to suspect him they may have removed items from his trash before his PV bust, or surveilled him and obtained something he discarded that likely had DNA like a cup or a cigarette if he smokes. I've seen some true crime shows that they've done that with like a discarded cup & straw at a fast food place in one case.
 
It's a very slippery slope altering the police photo, imo. Dangerous

Yes. Absolutely. Ive seen people lose their jobs for altering a photo.

I think this is a unique situation though and doesn't fall under those media rules.


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Goodnight everyone! It's been an interesting weekend of discussion! I hope we'll see justice for Libby and Abby soon.

:bed:
 
All convicted felons in IN are required to give DNA. RL is a convicted felon.
http://www.ncsl.org/portals/1/docume...na/indiana.pdf
and here:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-collecting-dna-samples-during-felony-arrests

[FONT=&quot]DNA samples are currently collected from convicted felons, but those who support the new bill say that taking them at the time of arrest could help prevent future crimes.[/FONT]

I guess we do not know if RL submitted DNA for this investigation and it seems to be doubtful whether his was in the system. He may have given one if he did it before 3/17, but since that date his lawyer may have advised him to do nothing. I don't think he can be compelled to provide a sample unless he is charged? So it may be that LE does not know what his status is, as far as the murders go.
 
I have a bad feeling there will be another continuance and we will learn nothing. JMO

Continuances are a normal legal thing regardless of incarceration status. I've organized them in my sleep, even for felons with random probation charges. Now, some actual murder charges? That might wake me...MOO and all. No snark intended.


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I have posted this before...I live less than one hour away from Delphi and in our smaller town than Delphi we have three unsolved murders.
I really want to put my faith in LE, but, I don't know anymore. One of our unsolved homicide case was on Oprah back in the day.

Are any of those unsolved murders posted here on WS?
 
All convicted felons in IN are required to give DNA. RL is a convicted felon.
http://www.ncsl.org/portals/1/docume...na/indiana.pdf
and here:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-collecting-dna-samples-during-felony-arrests

[FONT=&quot]DNA samples are currently collected from convicted felons, but those who support the new bill say that taking them at the time of arrest could help prevent future crimes.[/FONT]
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He's already in the system.

Yes. Thanks


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I have posted this before...I live less than one hour away from Delphi and in our smaller town than Delphi we have three unsolved murders.
I really want to put my faith in LE, but, I don't know anymore. One of our unsolved homicide case was on Oprah back in the day.

I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into this, but if there is any reason to believe that local LE or ISP may have a conflict of interest when it comes to this case, I strongly urge you to share any information you have with the FBI.
 
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