IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

[Jax49]

Good Morning. Hoping today is the day BG is arrested.

 

[MistyWaters]

My understanding is that the non-custodial grandfather believed that Libby would put up the fight of her life, and that is so true of everyone who would find themselves in an isolated environment with a murderer.

I believe the murder is premeditated in so far as the suspect is an opportunist looking for vulnerable victims.
There's no trafficking thing happening here ... trafficking and meth are the easy fall backs in so many cases that involve a missing female child, but trafficking is off the table when the bodies are found in less than 24 hours.

BBM
Otto, I got to respectfully say that whether it was a planned abduction (for any reason) or intentional murder, imo the girls would've fought for their lives with equal aggression.

Regarding kidnapping, it's well publicized that the odds of survival are significantly reduced if a violent predator is able to transport a victim to a different location. I would imagine this is a frightening statistic that every young teen is aware of. While the trail and bridge area are somewhat remote, considering other hikers and the presence of rural residents, if the crime was sexually motivated the risk to culprit/s intending to remain in that location doing whatever evil deeds they intended on would seem very high imo. Instead such a deviant might plan to restrain and abduct his victims from an area in close proximity to his/their parked vehicle and then relocate them to a secondary location.

If the crime initially involved an abduction and the girls physically prevented it, this would also explain the narrow time frame in which the murder appeared to have taken place.

That the bodies of the Iowa girls were later found 20 miles away indicates an abduction did occur. Whether or not there's a connection, instead Libby and Abby fought for their lives and therefore their bodies remained at the scene. MOO


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[Hazelnutty]

I’m still hung up on the Freedom Bridge that crosses trail walkers over the Hoosier Heartland Highway. Never seen it 100% confirmed where the drop off point was. Could the possibility exist that the girls could have been observed crossing the Freedom Bridge by the perp driving south on the Heartland Highway?

Perhaps, they even noticed the vehicle slowing down while looking at them. After the vehicle traveled under the Freedom Bridge, perhaps the girls noticed the vehicle turning right onto Main St.

As the vehicle continued on Main St., the girls could have still observed it from the bridge and vice versa.

Just off off Main St., the vehicle could make a right turn onto Old IN 25.

Old IN 25 becomes 300N as it loops back around with Freedom Bridge still visible.

In just a matter of minutes, the perp could have continued driving on 300N until reaching the cemetery, parked and worked his way towards the Monon High Bridge, as the girls walked the trail from the Freedom Bridge to the High Bridge, with the events unfolding from there according to the GH videos.


With a drop off time of 1:30 or so near the Freedom Bridge, the girls could have reached the High Bridge within a half hour via the trail. All IMO. all of this would be null and void if there is a different confirmed drop off point.

I appreciate your post.

It's been a while since I've read the early threads regarding Lyric & Elizabeth's abduction site. IIRC, their bicycles and one girl's little purse were found in an area that was.in view of a busy interstate and they could have been seen & abducted by someone driving on that particular stretch of highway. Their bicycles, purse were separated from the highway only by a fence . So, your post could be another tie- in to possibly connect these two cases.

JMOO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Perhaps he was going to take them up to his car at the cemetary but the next people on the bridge disturbed him so he just left them. JMO.

I don't think so. If a murderer has isolated two children in a secluded area of a remote park, why would he take them somewhere else?

To bury or hide them?

They weren't buried or hidden somewhere else. They were left in the same isolated park where they were abducted less than 24 hours earlier.

I have quoted my posts and otto's answers to make my point clearer. Which was that perhaps he intended to get them to a car in the cemetery, heard someone on the bridge so killed them and left straightaway instead. An interrupted plan perhaps. MOO.

Eta. Misty, just read your post and we are thinking along similar lines. I have been waiting for the thread to open to repost mine .

 

[Bemused]

OT

Otto, if you're unfamiliar with the details of the disappearance of Denise Huber and how one woman's intuition and suspicion reported to police solved her cold case, read this.

http://murderpedia.org/male.F/f/famalaro-john.htm

All it takes is one person to give LE a single clue. Denise had been missing for three years, seemingly vanished without a trace. Her case had a lot of national media attention and billboards everywhere because I remember them. Not only was Denise found, she was found at her killer's home all due to a single clue reported to police based on that woman's intuition something was not right. Science didn't solve Denise Huber's case or identify her killer but intuition did.

Maybe someone will notice something about the Iowa girls' killer because all it takes is one.

 

[Justice101]

My understanding is that the non-custodial grandfather believed that Libby would put up the fight of her life, and that is so true of everyone who would find themselves in an isolated environment with a murderer.

I believe the murder is premeditated in so far as the suspect is an opportunist looking for vulnerable victims.
There's no trafficking thing happening here ... trafficking and meth are the easy fall backs in so many cases that involve a missing female child, but trafficking is off the table when the bodies are found in less than 24 hours.

The problem it's probably hard to see that you are going to be killed. You keep following commands and at some point, it is too late to react... you may have missed your one and only fleeting chance to either run for it, scream, distract and surprise attack, etc.

So sad what these girls may have gone thru.

 

[Bemused]

Similar to this case, the family was on it right away - in fact sooner than this case. The girls were riding their bikes in a nearby parking lot, watched by their grandmother, when they decided to cycle to the nearby, somewhat rural park in South Evansdale. In one hour, they were long gone. Their bikes were left behind, which left police dragging manmade lakes and searching nearby waterways. Family looked in the right place, but they were too late.

The abandoned bikes probably triggered the feds getting involved. It sounds like they were possibly lured into a vehicle, particularly given where they were found. All it takes is one tip to police. Maybe someone brags or maybe someone knows who and finally reports it. Maybe the killer is already in prison for something else. I don't think a normally law abiding citizen's first crime is murdering two children and then back to being a normal, law abiding citizen. IMO

 

[her]

I have quoted my posts and otto's answers to make my point clearer. Which was that perhaps he intended to get them to a car in the cemetery, heard someone on the bridge so killed them and left straightaway instead. An interrupted plan perhaps. MOO.

Eta. Misty, just read your post and we are thinking along similar lines. I have been waiting for the thread to open to repost mine .

I have thought this may be the situation because it happened so quickly and others were spotted in the area so soon after.
If not then the girls tried to make a run for it across the creek and were caught, the suspect then has to react quickly because again ppl were in the area so soon after.

Two reasons why it happened so fast and why they were left in that area?

 

[Puggle]

Have all the snapchat friends that would have received the original pics at that exact time been interviewed? ..... to find out if any older male figure noticed the pics and made comment on the pics.

Has this been reported as an avenue of investigation?

The geography of the murders makes me feel this is a local resident, as it seems illogical for a stranger to pick such a dangerous area (the bridge) to undertake this heinous crime...... whomever it was, I feel was definately comfortable in the immediate surroundings..

 

[WebSight]

I hope you didn't take it as me "challenging" you guys, because I was asking a genuine question. My phone has a mind of it's own sometimes, as I have gotten messages from people hours later than they had sent them. Conversely, I have been in areas where I have had normal reception, and tried to send a message, and it wouldn't go through.

I was actually in the midst of a long post, asking a lot of questions, because I am not adept at Snapchat (I've only used it once), but thinking about it, as I was typing just now, I answered some of my own questions.

My first post, I was genuinely curious, as to whether LE could've missed it, but I can't think of any scenarios where they could be off as far as the times.




Still, great thoughts by you two.

Reggie, first of all challenge away if need be!! I was honestly challenged by your answer in a good way because you brought up some obvious points which, getting caught up in the moment of a new idea, can be obscured. I wasn't thinking about LE and how they must be twenty miles ahead of me!

I do love the bouncing around of different ideas. So many here bring a special expertise or experience to the table that I find really helpful because there is so much I don't know. If I sounded anything other than grateful for your feedback, it's on me then and I'm sorry.

 

[Bemused]

I have thought this may be the situation because it happened so quickly and others were spotted in the area so soon after.
If not then the girls tried to make a run for it across the creek and were caught, the suspect then has to react quickly because again ppl were in the area so soon after.

Two reasons why it happened so fast and why they were left in that area?

Unplanned killing and the need to get away quickly. Planned murders would likely include a game plan of giving the killer more time to get away and making it more difficult to locate the victims IMO.

 

[Puggle]

Have all their friends parents been invesigated?

Men with a history of domestic violence, antisocial behaviour, possibly substance abuse issues?

Narrowed down to individuals who have an association with the immediate area or the path, trail, bridge ....for it to be seen as a shortcut from town on foot to a home of significance on the East side of the bridge.

I noticed that one of the girls had taken pictures on the road further East of the cemetery...... without going into detail ..... she had reasons in the past to be in that area socially.

 

[Lilowlet]

Great find!!!

and to Ms Suzanne
( Couldn't find original post) I've been doing the same but with attempted abductions I found this one strange, and the mother mentions the girls and how it made it that much more scary for them. In this case the people where trying to get two children as well. I hope this isn't becoming a trend. Happy Easter from TN and I hope you all have a great one. Good find Ms Suzanne.

http://www.wthr.com/article/mom-war...-child-abduction-attempt-in-indy-neighborhood

 

[her]

Unplanned killing and the need to get away quickly. Planned murders would likely include a game plan of giving the killer more time to get away and making it more difficult to locate the victims IMO.

Very true but, sometimes no matter how much is planned things happen one cannot factor into it.
It could have very well been random or planned or both? An opportunity for the suspect who always thinks about it and has done it before so they know how to take advantage of said opportunity ? This is all so open to many different theories without a lot to go on.

 

[Molecularblonde]

Unplanned killing and the need to get away quickly. Planned murders would likely include a game plan of giving the killer more time to get away and making it more difficult to locate the victims IMO.

Great point!

 

[Puggle]

Very true but, sometimes no matter how much is planned things happen one cannot factor into it.
It could have very well been random or planned or both? An opportunity for the suspect who always thinks about it and has done it before so they know how to take advantage of said opportunity ? This is all so open to many different theories without a lot to go on.

Can you reason why someone would "plan" a murder in that location?

 

[Bemused]

Great point!

If there are only skeletal remains located it would be difficult to determine SA or even COD unless there are bullet holes or knife marks in the bone. Science has evolved but they need the samples to analyze and the coroner needs more to make a determination, IMO.

 

[her]

Can you reason why someone would "plan" a murder in that location?

No, I never thought about it as one.

 

[cindersoot]

I'm sure LE triage tips into credible, possible and too crazy to take seriously like the tooth fairy did it. IMO

I do know it takes time to build a case. They only have one chance.

 

[Puggle]

No, I never thought about it as one.

Lol...sorry I was simple throwing out a random...

So you agree?


That this was an unplanned situation?