What's eating you alive re this case?

[UKGuy]

That idea has occurred to me.

Later that night Meyer and Dr. Andrew Sirotnak, assistant professor of pediatrics returned to re-examine JonBenet's gentitals and they confirmed Meyer's earlier finding of vaginal injury, which according to Lawrence Schiller would be open to interpretation at trial.

Also ...
1996-12-29: Search Warrant 755 15 Street, Boulder, Colorado

Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she witnessed the autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey which was conducted by Dr. John Meyer on December 27, 1996. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she observed Dr. Meyer examine the vaginal area of the victim and heard him state that the victim had received an injury constant with digital penetration of her vagina. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that it was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact. For further details on the autopsy see the attached document entitled Addendum To

I'm assuming Meyer is not conflating a vaginal injury with sexual contact?

When he returns to do the second examination, the results from the splinter as referred to by Steve Thomas would not yet be available?

Meyer's prior opinion had been an injury consistent with digital penetration.

Along with Dr. Andrew Sirotnak he confirms the vaginal injury, so if the splinter arrived via a finger, e.g. a digit, then did someone stage digital penetration thereby causing a vaginal injury as per Meyer?

If all that appears to describe what might have taken place, what do you think about the sexual contact as outlined verbatim by Meyer?

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[BBB167893]

Later that night Meyer and Dr. Andrew Sirotnak, assistant professor of pediatrics returned to re-examine JonBenet's genitals and they confirmed Meyer's earlier finding of vaginal injury, which according to Lawrence Schiller would be open to interpretation at trial.

Also ...
1996-12-29: Search Warrant 755 15 Street, Boulder, Colorado


I'm assuming Meyer is not conflating a vaginal injury with sexual contact?

If he were smart, he wouldn't.

When he returns to do the second examination, the results from the splinter as referred to by Steve Thomas would not yet be available?

That's possible.

Meyer's prior opinion had been an injury consistent with digital penetration.

Right.

Along with Dr. Andrew Sirotnak he confirms the vaginal injury, so if the splinter arrived via a finger, e.g. a digit, then did someone stage digital penetration thereby causing a vaginal injury as per Meyer?

If all that appears to describe what might have taken place, what do you think about the sexual contact as outlined verbatim by Meyer?

UKGuy, pardon my bluntness, but what are you getting at here?

 

[UKGuy]

If he were smart, he wouldn't.

That's possible.


Right.

UKGuy, pardon my bluntness, but what are you getting at here?

UKGuy, pardon my bluntness, but what are you getting at here?

Being blunt is fine. Since Meyer sought a second opinion this could be interpreted as doubt regarding his initial verbatim opinion.

Alternatively the second opinion can be seen as confirming his initial verbatim analysis?

This is in the apparent absence of forensic lab results, missing piece of paintbrush not withstanding.

The verbatim opinion is apparently just that, reported second hand by Linda Arndt. Whilst the second opinion is evidenced and confirmed along with Dr. Andrew Sirotnak.

The latter, second opinion is represented in PMPT as an injury.

So I was interested as to what your take on the subject was: i.e. both a sexual assault and separate injury, or simply one of either potentially staged?

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[Tadpole12]

Try having to watch it from my POV 

? ....

 

[BBB167893]

Being blunt is fine. Since Meyer sought a second opinion this could be interpreted as doubt regarding his initial verbatim opinion.

Alternatively the second opinion can be seen as confirming his initial verbatim analysis?

This is in the apparent absence of forensic lab results, missing piece of paintbrush not withstanding.

The verbatim opinion is apparently just that, reported second hand by Linda Arndt. Whilst the second opinion is evidenced and confirmed along with Dr. Andrew Sirotnak.

The latter, second opinion is represented in PMPT as an injury.

So I was interested as to what your take on the subject was: i.e. both a sexual assault and separate injury, or simply one of either potentially staged?

.

Me, I've always figured that the acute injury was caused by the staging.

 

[UKGuy]

Me, I've always figured that the acute injury was caused by the staging.

I agree, this is more or less how I see it. Someone sexually assaulted JonBenet then someone else attempted to stage this away by using the paintbrush?

Without lab results how would Coroner Meyer know to ask such a question never mind require a second opinion?

I'm thinking he found the missing piece of paintbrush and thought what has been staged here?

The second opinion would be to confirm that his initial opinion, i.e. sexual asault was valid, and that the use of the paintbrush was in effect a crime-scene spoiler?

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[BBB167893]

I agree, this is more or less how I see it. Someone sexually assaulted JonBenet then someone else attempted to stage this away by using the paintbrush?

I would differ with you in that I think someone sexually (or at least vaginally) abused (though that could be a matter of semantics) JonBenet, then attempted to explain/cover it with the paintbrush injury.

Without lab results how would Coroner Meyer know to ask such a question never mind require a second opinion?

I'm thinking he found the missing piece of paintbrush and thought what has been staged here?

The second opinion would be to confirm that his initial opinion, i.e. sexual asault was valid, and that the use of the paintbrush was in effect a crime-scene spoiler?

.

You make a convincing argument.

 

[AndHence]

I've always thought it was possible that the splinter from the brush was transferred by the gloves the person was wearing when JonBenet was wiped down. If the toggle rope was fashioned as part of the staging, it is likely that person was wearing gloves when they made it, and continued wearing them when wiping JonBenet down.

 

[singularity]

I just spent the last month going over the party on the 23rd. On the surface, you'd think there wasn't much to it. This party has a story all to itself and somehow it seemed to get buried.

Its crazy how this party was almost filmed.

I also believe its a major piece to the puzzle and if any info comes out that breaks the case wide open, it might be someone who was at the party finally speaking up.

 

[UKGuy]

I've always thought it was possible that the splinter from the brush was transferred by the gloves the person was wearing when JonBenet was wiped down. If the toggle rope was fashioned as part of the staging, it is likely that person was wearing gloves when they made it, and continued wearing them when wiping JonBenet down.

AndHence,
Why would they be wearing gloves? It would be difficult to construct the knotting on the ligature while wearing gloves.

The splinter could have arrived in a myriad of different ways, the most obvious is via the paintbrush, or on someones finger?

We have not been told if the missing piece of paintbrush is really absent or has been redacted from the evidence list?

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[UKGuy]

I would differ with you in that I think someone sexually (or at least vaginally) abused (though that could be a matter of semantics) JonBenet, then attempted to explain/cover it with the paintbrush injury.



You make a convincing argument.

This is what I thought I was saying? I was never certain regarding the status of the alleged paintbrush injury.

Once I realized Coroner Meyer sought a second opinion in advance of any lab results, then he must have had the paintbrush in mind as he had already opined on the Digital Penetration, and later BPD showed investigators post-mortem photographs of JonBenet's enlarged hymen, strengthening Meyer's digital speculation?



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[Nedthan Johns]

HI I am not sure why I am unable to start a new thread, can someone here start one for me titled Casting JonBenet Documentary?

Thank you

 

[Pursuit of Truth]

I'd like a thread on this show as well. Just watched it today. Interesting. The last 5-10 minutes of it where they showed the montage or whatever with all the cast members in all the different theories of what could have happened was really powerful. KNowing my own ideas of what went down, I was almost emotional watching that last sequence.

The rest of the show... not sure what to think. Just people sharing their personal tragedies and relating their experiences to what the different R family members must have felt that day if their theory of events was the case.

HI I am not sure why I am unable to start a new thread, can someone here start one for me titled Casting JonBenet Documentary?

Thank you

 

[EtherealMoonRose]

I'd like a thread on this show as well. Just watched it today. Interesting. The last 5-10 minutes of it where they showed the montage or whatever with all the cast members in all the different theories of what could have happened was really powerful. KNowing my own ideas of what went down, I was almost emotional watching that last sequence.

The rest of the show... not sure what to think. Just people sharing their personal tragedies and relating their experiences to what the different R family members must have felt that day if their theory of events was the case.

The montage confused me somewhat. I know it was to show all the different theories. There was BDI, Santa(?), PDI and JDI? I didn't understand the part where J and P were arguing in their bedroom. Does anyone know what theory that was part of?

 

[singularity]

Unless it played out like a silent movie, i would think them arguing would be part of every theory.

 

[Userid]

^ Exactly. It would be in mine, particularly in the morning just before the staging.

 

[EtherealMoonRose]

^ Exactly. It would be in mine, particularly in the morning just before the staging.

Have yous even seen the movie?

 

[BBB167893]

This is what I thought I was saying? I was never certain regarding the status of the alleged paintbrush injury.

Once I realized Coroner Meyer sought a second opinion in advance of any lab results, then he must have had the paintbrush in mind as he had already opined on the Digital Penetration, and later BPD showed investigators post-mortem photographs of JonBenet's enlarged hymen, strengthening Meyer's digital speculation?



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You've lost me completely now.

 

[Userid]

Have yous even seen the movie?

Admittedly, no -- I'm just saying though, if you are an RDI'er, it's beyond reasonable to assume that there was an argument at some point during the whole ordeal. I'm PDI, and I would bet once JR found out, he flipped out and there was a shouting match. So as someone already mentioned, that scene was in the movie; and again, it makes sense why that scene would be in the movie to me. If the filmmakers were going over all the of the possible sequences that could have happened that night, then again, I see why it was included.

I can see them arguing in every scenario where RDI. How can't you?

 

[EtherealMoonRose]

Admittedly, no -- I'm just saying though, if you are an RDI'er, it's beyond reasonable to assume that there was an argument at some point during the whole ordeal. I'm PDI, and I would bet once JR found out, he flipped out and there was a shouting match. So as someone already mentioned, that scene was in the movie; and again, it makes sense why that scene would be in the movie to me. If the filmmakers were going over all the of the possible sequences that could have happened that night, then again, I see why it was included.

I can see them arguing in every scenario where RDI. How can't you?

Yeah, it was just how the movie was made which was confusing. It showed all the different theories but in little snippets. Hard to explain unless you've actually seen it. I gave it some thought and I think it would fit with PDI, as they are packing for their trip whilst arguing (someone had mentioned Patsy didn't want to go on this trip, further fueling her rage). But I can definitely see them arguing no matter which theory.