Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

[geevee]

Checked this again. I got two 3 h and 32 mins and one 3 hours and 34 min (all from Travis' house to Kingman.). However I'm curious on another thing - can we really put that much stock into the exact time that Jodi called him? And, since I don't remember everything about his testimony, did he say that she called him exactly at 10:30 pm or did he say something like "around that time"?


Very interesting. In the picture you've posted the back of his head does look like a shadow, but are you sure that the swapping of colors you've done didn't create that shadow? What I mean is that the image quality was already low enough (even the Juan Martinez one) and that area (presumably his head) is almost pitch-black (except that part that's green which even in the other photos seems lighter). I just can't see how Jodi's foot can create a round shadow like that while obscuring Travis' head completely.

I really don't think that is his chin, it's too small and the blood that is coming out wouldn't fit the pattern. The blood can't be coming from the top of his head. Maybe if his head was tilted somehow to the left, but that wouldn't make sense considering his body position.

The foot is what's bothering me. It's definitely a foot (IMO). It's shaped like a foot, it's in the distance (his hands or any other part of his body won't be able to reach that far) and you can clearly see his big toe. However I can't for the life of me understand what's going on. As I said in my first post, Travis appears to be alive, yet you're absolutely correct, his foot does seem limp. My only explanation is that the camera took that photo while they were still in motion (duh, obviously) and it just came off like that. But maybe at this point Travis is way too out of it and his body started to give up? This is presumably before Jodi delivered the final blow to him and by that time Travis had already endured enough punishment for a lifetime. His arm, though, indicates that he is still fighting.. But...

What if this is the point that Jodi grabs his arm and turns him on his back? Do you know what's the distance in this photo compared to when she cut his throat? I know it's a little further down the hall but how much further?

I agree on the rest of what you said.

I swapped the colors because in the originals (3rd hand as we have them) the blue obscures so much, the green replacing it helps to see a bit more detail, at least in this pic for me. Swapping the blue for pink/purple allowed me to see the last pic's (5:33:32) details much better and isolate the hand in the foreground. By the way, thanks for discussing the pics with me, I understand those who want to avoid this area of the case but I've spent so much time studying them, it's nice to be able to compare notes and thoughts on them.

Here is the full shot of 5:32:16, rotated first to floor level (as the camera was sitting on the shutter button and tilted a little, then I rotated it to the left to show the detail, the tip of his chin (imo) is pointing upwards and just below the 'hand' label:



The hallway is ~12 feet long, from the shadows cast in this pic I think they are almost directly under the center hallway light fixture. If she cut his throat at the threshold of the bedroom it would be a few behind where they are. Travis wasn't quite 6 feet tall, so if he laid with his feet at the threshold, his head would be close to the middle of the hallway.

Yes, I think there's a great deal of motion going on in this pic given all of the blur and body positions; if that is his neck wound, then I think she's dragging him to the shower, if it's the back of his head (doubtfully, in my opinion), Travis is still fighting for his life.

 

[RickshawFan]

PocketAccent, Geevee, Niner? You're still sleuthing? Howdy! I missed chit-chatting with y'all much more than I miss the case....

 

[RickshawFan]

Has there been any speculation as to what time she may have launched her attack on Travis?

For her to be in Kingman to call Ryan at 9.30 pm, she would have had to have left Mesa by about 6.30 pm, but I always thought she was taking a huge risk by killing Travis (and then having to clean up and do laundry) at a time when people typically come home from work (after 5.00 pm). I would think she would want to be out of the house by 4.00 that afternoon to avoid being seen by the roommates.

And remember Chris Hughes had sent Travis a text at 12.30 pm that seemed to have been returned by The Killer, not Travis himself. So was Travis sleeping at 12.30 or had he already been killed? And if the timestamps are off on all the shower pics, the timestamps are also off on all the nudies that were taken four hours prior.

She could have very easily waited for the roommates to leave for work in the morning before sneaking upstairs to wake Travis up, take nudies with him and then lure him into the shower for her Calvin Klein photo shoot, then kill him, clean up, put a bandage on the finger she cut slicing an apple in the kitchen, return Chris Hughes' text message, do some laundry, brush her teeth and leave sometime in the afternoon. But when?

Does anyone remember what month Travis bought his camera? Could the time have been set correctly at the time of purchase, and then by June the timestamp was ahead by one hour?

As an aside... I paid cash for an item at Sam's Club the other day. When I returned the item the next day, the gal at the Customer Service desk scribed a line through the item description on the receipt. I could only think to myself, "if only the customer service gal at Costco in Salinas was as thorough". lol

Wait a minute... I came here to read about everyone's thoughts on the Casey Anthony mini-series. How'd I end up here???

LMAO. We had a whole lot of speculation about 6 months to a year ago. Seems we generated a spectacular pile of timeline options, with the murder taking place anytime from early morning to late afternoon! We had JA's activities mapped out moment by moment. Hope4More even did the drive around the neighborhood, scoping out parking spots, various possible routes to Kingman/NV, all kinds of stuff, while we were online. That was quite the sleuthing enterprise! Awesome fun...

 

[Niner]

PocketAccent, Geevee, Niner? You're still sleuthing? Howdy! I missed chit-chatting with y'all much more than I miss the case....

Hey RickshawFan! :wave:

No, I'm not sleuthing, but still come over to read if there is anything posted! LOL!

Come join us over in the basement (Jury Room) and chit-chat!

GeeVee - now I can "see" what you've been trying to point out in that picture above. Never could see it before! Thanks!

 

[femto]

I swapped the colors because in the originals (3rd hand as we have them) the blue obscures so much, the green replacing it helps to see a bit more detail, at least in this pic for me. Swapping the blue for pink/purple allowed me to see the last pic's (5:33:32) details much better and isolate the hand in the foreground. By the way, thanks for discussing the pics with me, I understand those who want to avoid this area of the case but I've spent so much time studying them, it's nice to be able to compare notes and thoughts on them.

Here is the full shot of 5:32:16, rotated first to floor level (as the camera was sitting on the shutter button and tilted a little, then I rotated it to the left to show the detail, the tip of his chin (imo) is pointing upwards and just below the 'hand' label:

Ok, let's analyze this. In this modification of the photo that you did it, it really does seem to me like that truly is his hair and head. Yes, it's blurry, but that, IMO, is mainly because that area originally was black as the night. Now, since I have some experience with Photoshop (not an expert or anything, but as a kid I did all kinds of various things with it), I can tell you that swapping the colours like that, adjusting the brightness, contrast and everything else that you probably did can create such an effect. That's why even Juan Martinez, with all the resources he had, couldn't clear the image completely. You can improve the quality of a photo, but you can't make it crystal clear. You certainly did improve it - the part with the foot is now more clear, the blood too, however doing that also obscured other things like her foot which seems more like a shadowy boot.

Now take a closer look at his presumed foot. Look at the shape of it, the length and his toes. A hand doesn't have such a shape, not even close. A hand isn't that lengthy and with a relatively narrow width. Furthermore, his big toe couldn't be any more clearer. A thumb can't take such a form and length unless it's severely deformed and we all know Travis didn't have any such problems. Also his left arm and shoulder is pretty visible. If one thing I can be sure about in this picture, it's his foot.

And is it me or in the new photo you can see the knife wound to his head (in the light part of the back of his head)?

The hallway is ~12 feet long, from the shadows cast in this pic I think they are almost directly under the center hallway light fixture. If she cut his throat at the threshold of the bedroom it would be a few behind where they are. Travis wasn't quite 6 feet tall, so if he laid with his feet at the threshold, his head would be close to the middle of the hallway.

Yes, I think there's a great deal of motion going on in this pic given all of the blur and body positions; if that is his neck wound, then I think she's dragging him to the shower, if it's the back of his head (doubtfully, in my opinion), Travis is still fighting for his life.

Well, it definitely has to be one of the two. This happened so fast that it's hard to comprehend that in a matter of 2 minutes she did all that she did.

 

[geevee]

Ok, let's analyze this. In this modification of the photo that you did it, it really does seem to me like that truly is his hair and head. Yes, it's blurry, but that, IMO, is mainly because that area originally was black as the night. Now, since I have some experience with Photoshop (not an expert or anything, but as a kid I did all kinds of various things with it), I can tell you that swapping the colours like that, adjusting the brightness, contrast and everything else that you probably did can create such an effect. That's why even Juan Martinez, with all the resources he had, couldn't clear the image completely. You can improve the quality of a photo, but you can't make it crystal clear. You certainly did improve it - the part with the foot is now more clear, the blood too, however doing that also obscured other things like her foot which seems more like a shadowy boot.

Now take a closer look at his presumed foot. Look at the shape of it, the length and his toes. A hand doesn't have such a shape, not even close. A hand isn't that lengthy and with a relatively narrow width. Furthermore, his big toe couldn't be any more clearer. A thumb can't take such a form and length unless it's severely deformed and we all know Travis didn't have any such problems. Also his left arm and shoulder is pretty visible. If one thing I can be sure about in this picture, it's his foot.

And is it me or in the new photo you can see the knife wound to his head (in the light part of the back of his head)?



Well, it definitely has to be one of the two. This happened so fast that it's hard to comprehend that in a matter of 2 minutes she did all that she did.

But where is his ear (if that's his head)? And the copious amounts of blood two deep head wounds would generate? As labeled in the rotated pic, I can see what looks suspiciously like an ear just above the neck wound. I guess we can debate it all day long but I do agree with your ending, it's always been hard for me to comprehend that she accomplished all of this in such a short amount of time.

 

[Pasasana]

Hello guys, I would like to give my thoughts on the "gunshot first" theory which I believe was the first event of the murder of TA and some other things as well.

(Snipped original post)

 

[Pasasana]

I don't know if anyone is lurking here anymore.

I also don't know what got into me but I began to go over this case again a few days ago.

Ryan Burns' testimony:
[video=youtube;_mG-HoiBA1k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mG-HoiBA1k[/video]

June 4th, 2008
-Ryan went to training 7 pm to 9:30 pm.
-Went to Cheesecake Factory afterwards, arrived ~10 pm
-Received a call from the ~ 10:30 pm, conversation lasted 30 min - 1 hour, or longer according to Ryan.
- called back after awhile. He doesn't remember when. Ryan figured she was away 7-8 hours away at that point.
- arrived 10 am - 11 am on June 5th.

Ummm...
The last 'shower' photo is time stamped @ 5:33 pm.
If Ryan received the call at 10:30 pm, the is calling him at 9:30 pm her time wherever she ended up calling him from (Arizona, Nevada). Utah is 1 hour ahead.
The murder in progress is at 5:33 pm.
The call to Ryan is at around 9:30 pm.
So 4 hours to finish the kill, shove him in the shower, clean up, preen herself, and drive to Kingman area. I don't think this is possible, adrenaline or not.

My conclusion is that Travis' camera time was off. He was killed much earlier that day IMO.

Interesting! Do you know how long the drive to Kingman would take?

 

[Tiger09]

I have a strange theory about a lie I totally believe Arias told.

A little backstory first to explain. I have severe crohns disease, kidney issues, etc. It causes me to be hospitalized a lot and receive iv therapy. That being said, I had an incident recently that made me think of the trial.

Remember when Arias said the reason why she said "no jury will convict me" was because she was going to kill herself? I believe that's a lie. Reason? I recently had to get two wrist ivs and there's no freaking way that Arias, who weighed I'm guessing same or less than me, cut her wrist with a razor blade and was never caught by jail personnel. Dude. It hurts. The first one,on the wrist directly, hurt so badly I screamed and cried. The second, a bit down, was hard, but I had to power through. My entire wrist is swollen and bruised. You can see the iv Mark.

Clearly, she'd have bruised the heck out of her wrist. The skin is very thin and delicate. My nurse explained it to me. There are a lot of nerve endings there. Clearly, she got cocky and had to cover herself.

ETA: I'm onboard with the theory of Travis being killed earlier in the day too. It literally makes more sense imo. We all knew Arias would primp herself with a no makeup makeup look (that she was terrible at tbh) which takes around 45-50 min, more if you suck at makeup, which she does. Plus, she had to obviously clean herself off. And hide weapons, bloody clothes, etc. Cleaning the car was nothing, but looking good to get another guy? Yes. Also, she had emails to send, phones to hack, calls to make. While driving through many states and avoiding cops. That's gonna take more than 4 hrs. Or 3 hrs considering she did laundry at Travis' s.
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[pocketaccent]

PocketAccent, Geevee, Niner? You're still sleuthing? Howdy! I missed chit-chatting with y'all much more than I miss the case....

Hi Ricksis, miss you too, yup, I'm still sleuthing. I will sleuth for 10 more years. I can never get tired of this case.:loveyou:

 

[pocketaccent]

I have a strange theory about a lie I totally believe Arias told.

A little backstory first to explain. I have severe crohns disease, kidney issues, etc. It causes me to be hospitalized a lot and receive iv therapy. That being said, I had an incident recently that made me think of the trial.

Remember when Arias said the reason why she said "no jury will convict me" was because she was going to kill herself? I believe that's a lie. Reason? I recently had to get two wrist ivs and there's no freaking way that Arias, who weighed I'm guessing same or less than me, cut her wrist with a razor blade and was never caught by jail personnel. Dude. It hurts. The first one,on the wrist directly, hurt so badly I screamed and cried. The second, a bit down, was hard, but I had to power through. My entire wrist is swollen and bruised. You can see the iv Mark.

Clearly, she'd have bruised the heck out of her wrist. The skin is very thin and delicate. My nurse explained it to me. There are a lot of nerve endings there. Clearly, she got cocky and had to cover herself.

ETA: I'm onboard with the theory of Travis being killed earlier in the day too. It literally makes more sense imo. We all knew Arias would primp herself with a no makeup makeup look (that she was terrible at tbh) which takes around 45-50 min, more if you suck at makeup, which she does. Plus, she had to obviously clean herself off. And hide weapons, bloody clothes, etc. Cleaning the car was nothing, but looking good to get another guy? Yes. Also, she had emails to send, phones to hack, calls to make. While driving through many states and avoiding cops. That's gonna take more than 4 hrs. Or 3 hrs considering she did laundry at Travis' s.
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I never believed her failed-nicked myself-suicide attempt story that I believe she made up to garner sympathy from jurors. I think she threatened suicide to everyone in her life, throughout her life whenever she needed sympathy or attention and to just manipulate people.


I'm pretty sure T was killed much earlier.
Between 5:33 pm and 9:30 pm (if the camera time were correct), what did she need to accomplish?

-Inflict more injuries. @5:32 pm T was still alive fighting for his life. I don't know how long more the fight continued.
-Drag his body and shove him in the shower. This had to have taken some time. He is heavy and slippery covered in blood.
-Wash his body.
-Wash her hair and the rest of her evil body.
-Tend to her own wound.
-Put on fresh clothing/shoes
-Delete photos
-Do laundry
-Pack up whatever she brought in including knife and gun.
-Clean banister
-Put up doggie gate
-Place $200 check in T's desk. Make his office look dishelved. Even the window screen was down on the ground outside.
-Reinstall license plate upside down.
-Drive to Kingman area during the height of rush hour traffic. She actually drove farther than Kingman. She thought she was in Nevada when she called Ryan, but the cell pinged in Kingman because of the mountain range close to the NV-AZ border.
-May have had to fill up gas from gas cans during that trip.

T's laptop was last accessed @4:54 pm (by her). I think she left Mesa soon after. This makes calling Ryan @ 9:30 more possible.

 

[Tiger09]

I never believed her failed-nicked myself-suicide attempt story that I believe she made up to garner sympathy from jurors. I think she threatened suicide to everyone in her life, throughout her life whenever she needed sympathy or attention and to just manipulate people.


I'm pretty sure T was killed much earlier.
Between 5:33 pm and 9:30 pm (if the camera time were correct), what did she need to accomplish?

-Inflict more injuries. @5:32 pm T was still alive fighting for his life. I don't know how long more the fight continued.
-Drag his body and shove him in the shower. This had to have taken some time. He is heavy and slippery covered in blood.
-Wash his body.
-Wash her hair and the rest of her evil body.
-Tend to her own wound.
-Put on fresh clothing/shoes
-Delete photos
-Do laundry
-Pack up whatever she brought in including knife and gun.
-Clean banister
-Put up doggie gate
-Place $200 check in T's desk. Make his office look dishelved. Even the window screen was down on the ground outside.
-Reinstall license plate upside down.
-Drive to Kingman area during the height of rush hour traffic. She actually drove farther than Kingman. She thought she was in Nevada when she called Ryan, but the cell pinged in Kingman because of the mountain range close to the NV-AZ border.

T's laptop was last accessed @4:54 pm (by her). I think she left Mesa soon after. This makes calling Ryan @ 9:30 more possible.

Yup. I always thought that she put her laptop that was "destroyed" in the shower too. It seems like a novice way to kill the harddrive. I also think that she ditched the weapons in a less conspicuous place than the desert. She's not that smart tbh. Like, would she not clean her giant paw print off the wall? That's always made me laugh when they insisted she was smart during the trial. Like, she already attempted to set up that the office was broken into, so why not take the camera? I don't buy that she wanted to get caught. I just think she was cocky and dumb. Seriously, why leave pictures and prints? God. But it's good that she's dumb in a way because she essentially told on herself. It's like a kid telling lies. It gets bigger and bigger till aliens are involved.

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[pocketaccent]

Interesting! Do you know how long the drive to Kingman would take?

I think it would take at least 4 hours during weekday rush hour.
You can try googling during different time.
'11428 E Queensborough Ave Mesa to Kingman'

 

[Wing Ding]

Even the window screen was down on the ground outside.

So what's the deal with the window screen? Is that another unsolved mystery in this case, and we'll never know who really took it off, and when and why? Does anyone know if the window was locked and it simply was a failed attempt at a diversion by the white witch of Yreka?

 

[Tiger09]

So what's the deal with the window screen? Is that another unsolved mystery in this case, and we'll never know who really took it off, and when and why? Does anyone know if the window was locked and it simply was a failed attempt at a diversion by the white witch of Yreka?

I've always thought that she did it to attempt to stage a break in. I think her plan was to deny being there and make it look like someone broke in, robbed Travis, and killed him.

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[Wing Ding]

I've always thought that she did it to attempt to stage a break in. I think her plan was to deny being there and make it look like someone broke in, robbed Travis, and killed him.

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That could very well be. She's so naturally duplicitous I guess you can never really be sure what her real intention is/was. Even if she were to tell you. Or should I say, especially if she were to tell you.

 

[RickshawFan]

At 3:48 pm Arizona time, I type in 11428 E Queensborough Ave Mesa to Kingman, I get

4h 0 min via US-93N
4 h 8 min via I-10W and US-93 N
5 h 14 min via I-10 W
(Travel time changes depending on when you search. ie, slow traffic vs heavy traffic hour)

I think you also have to include T's address instead of just Mesa since it is a big city

Last summer, I believe, (2016) we got a good fix on timing to Kingman from Travis' house when Hope4More did the trip with us 'uns communicating with her live. Those threads are in here somewhere. It should narrow down times.

We also had many scenarios about having the murder earlier in the day.

My theory was that Jodi ditched the weapons at The Last Stop (in AZ before you get to NV). She coulda put them in the dumpster. EZPZ. IIRC, we had a photo with a dumpster in it! I'll bet she got a shower and a burger right there. No problem finding water. IIRC, there's something of an RV park there. There's also a shooting range. Having an extra gun floating around wouldn't catch anyone's attention. Jodi made a call right in that area somewhere. The Last Stop does indeed have cell service even though there are scant towers in that area.

Anyway, the threads about Hope4More's trip were last summer (maybe August?). That was some crazy sleuthing!

 

[watergirl62]

I think Esther did an excellent job of summarizing Travis' murder and Jodi's conviction and all the peripheral details in two episodes.

I did not realize that Juan was involved with the case as early as he was. I was baffled by her actions and outrageous elaborate poorly-assembled lies all over again. I think the no jury will convict me statement speaks volumes.

Episodes 43 and 44.

http://www.onceuponacrime.libsyn.com

[emoji92] Justice for Travis [emoji92]

 

[samspace070]

JA stole his money

 

[Niner]

Thought I'd bring over a post from Travis' Sidebar that YESorNO posted:

I Am Jodi Arias’s Mother

"This interview is the first time Sandy Arias has spoken publicly about her daughter Jodi Arias...

DO: How is your life going since dedicating a year and a half to attending two trials every day over 1,000 miles from your home?..."

http://www.femininecollective.com/jodi-ariass-mother/
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The Trial Diaries 3 hrs ·
I will be attending some hearings as my schedule permits. I want to cover this case if it goes to trial..#TheTrialDiaries

Jodi Arias prosecutor Juan Martinez could try 'Serial Street Shooter' case :juanettes:

"Juan Martinez, the flamboyant prosecutor who became a national celebrity during the Jodi Arias trials of 2013 and 2015, is listed as the prosecutor of record on the Maricopa County Superior Court calendar for a hearing set Thursday in the "Serial Street Shooter" case.

The Maricopa County Attorney's Office could not immediately confirm whether Martinez will ultimately try the case or if he will present Thursday's argument. But his signature also appeared on the first charging documents filed against the suspect in the shootings.

Police and prosecutors believe that Aaron Saucedo, 23, is the person who terrorized predominantly Latino neighborhoods, seemingly at random, during the first half of 2016. Nine people died, two others were wounded and two more were shot at but escaped unscathed in a series of shootings that police believe are connected..."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...edo/101732866/
---

Timeline: Phoenix 'Serial Street Shooter' case

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...ine/313611001/

WS thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=Aaron+Saucedo