OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #27

[ts51]

Hmm..help me understand your thoughts better if you can..I know we have to be careful..The W's weren't at strong as the R's but they don't need money..so, if these families were both out of their leagues, who is/are the "league"? I hope this makes sense..like who would be the go between? I understand if you really can't give your thoughts, but I thought your post was very interesting.

I think KR was killed because the killers are cowards. I mean that literally. If they left him alive he would have came after them and they couldn't deal with him.

The other R's (Tony ect) doesn't strike me as being as physically aggressive as KR and CR1. The M's they may have thought could be bought off. But KR was a problem so he had to go, maybe with not as much viciousness and hatred as the others, but go nonetheless.

I think this was a case of two families being out of their league but forced together by the birth of a child.

The W's because they couldn't handle the street fighter aggression of the R's with their own show of physical strength.

The R's because they were good ole boys who would give you the shirt off their backs and had no idea the lengths some people would go for money.

 

[IceIce9]

Not having $8,000 on hand for bail money, sounds poor to me and I am not rich.

That's what bail bondsmen are for.

 

[Dudly]

Not having $8,000 on hand for bail money, sounds poor to me and I am not rich.

I wonder where that leaves me. That is several times my life savings...

 

[SandyQLS]

I have been told Mrs. W is an heir to P&G.

I am following along and you must have read my mind... I am wondering if this is about inheritances. The texts between JM and JW, AM and DR, in the time frame just prior to the murders are so odd. If those texts pertain to the murders, then there could be multiple motives. Perhaps little S stood to inherit an enormous share, so rather than parenting or custody being the issue in eliminating so many people, it could be control of a generation-skipping trust fund setup by an elderly relative? As for the M's, eliminating DR leaves BJM and JM to inherit what might be more than anyone knows or thinks from the M's, and just who inherited the DR/CR properties? It is also odd, as others point out, that JW left his belongings on Brown's property when the W's have so much available space on their own properties, as though someone in power in the W family told them they could not leave anything there. LT Kenda says homicide is always about Love, Money or Revenge. I am thinking Money...

 

[CoreyRocks]

I have been here a couple years on WS, but only a couple days new on this thread as it kept popping up with action. Does anyone know if tox reports were ever released on the victims? What I found on the autopsy reports were all redacted.

Also, pardon my ignorance but doesn't ones bladder void at death. The AR reports contained some info as if they had been drinking beer or something.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[SandyQLS]

If they are actually that wealthy then that statement from LM about LE asking his son and daughter how much they were paid to kill the whole family makes a little sense on the part of LE. We have all discussed the top motives for murder and one of those being money. We have all asked who had something to gain by these deaths. If they are that wealthy, at the risk of sounding cold wouldn't that make little SR even more valuable to both the W's and the R's because she might one day inherit a large estate? An estate large enough it might be worth killing 8 people for? It would also bring the asking for HR to sign away her parental rights into focus. If she did that then any money SR inherited would not be in her control. I am sure we all remember the Anna Nicole Smith fiasco with her infant daughter and the fight for custody.

I should have read your post before I posted. You have expressed exactly what I have been thinking while reading along...

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I am trying to search for more information about this, HH person. You say he was a horse trainer and his body was found near the M's propery? Is there a known connection to any of the principle players in this case? Or can you point me in the right direction to search? I'm failing so far. Haha, sorry to be so needy!

It's EXTREMELY unlikely JM killed this guy and left his body close to or on his property.

 

[Betty P]

I have been here a couple years on WS, but only a couple days new on this thread as it kept popping up with action. Does anyone know if tox reports were ever released on the victims? What I found on the autopsy reports were all redacted.

Also, pardon my ignorance but doesn't ones bladder void at death. The AR reports contained some info as if they had been drinking beer or something.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Nearly every detail about these murders has been locked away from public view by LE & the Ohio AG. Thus far they've only released very heavily redacted autopsy reports (about 90% of text blacked out). There are 2 cases before the Ohio Supreme Court from the Cincinnati Enquirer & Columbus Dispatch trying to get the final AR reports released to media.

Pretty much all we know is that they all died of gunshot wounds. All tox reports are completely blacked out.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Nearly every detail about these murders has been locked away from public view by LE & the Ohio AG. Thus far they've only released very heavily redacted autopsy reports (about 90% of text blacked out). There are 2 cases before the Ohio Supreme Court from the Cincinnati Enquirer & Columbus Dispatch trying to get the final AR reports released to media.

Pretty much all we know is that they all died of gunshot wounds. All tox reports are completely blacked out.

The redacted areas hide evidence that the victims had injuries besides bullet holes.

 

[MVLM]

Is Mrs W EXTREMELY well educated and pro-abortion? If not, she's not an heir of Dr. Clarence Gamble. His children attended universities such as Radcliffe and Princeton and are very strong social activists promoting women's reproductive options.

Which is why, without a link to a genealogy breakdown, I don't believe for a second Grandma W is a Gamble.

Heirs to billion dollar companies usually don't breed pigs in rural Ohio, and have truck-driving teen parent grandsons.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Hmm..help me understand your thoughts better if you can..I know we have to be careful..The W's weren't at strong as the R's but they don't need money..so, if these families were both out of their leagues, who is/are the "league"? I hope this makes sense..like who would be the go between? I understand if you really can't give your thoughts, but I thought your post was very interesting.

Think upper middle class suburbia kids vs inner city gang kids.

The W's were out of their league dealing with the R's because the R's were aggressive, street fighters, if you will. Rough and tumble men ready to defend home and family with fists or weapons no matter who they had to fight. An example of that would be the fights with other derby members, the confrontation on UHR with IJ and crew.

The R's were out of their league dealing with the W's because the W's were more like the upper middle class kids, nice homes, huge horse ranches, farms. Money in the family. And if my theory is correct, with a willingness to keep that money in the family at all costs. The R's who were by all accounts generous people who would help anyone and by many people's accounts would give you the shirt off their backs, would not have been able to understand that level of greediness and selfishness.

Ergo both families were out of their leagues dealing with the other.

The birth of little S would have brought those two opposites together, added to the fact that JW was pretty certain little K was his also. That gave the R's, who had custody of S and K, and by extension the M's access to some of that money the W's had.

KR was one of the aggressive R's and extremely close to CR1 if everyone is to be believed. With that type character and the people he had to be associating with in selling MJ, he would have came after whoever killed CR1 and his whole family. They may not have felt they were safe from his wrath even in prison. So he had to go. Not so much BR or TR as they don't strike me as the "living life out loud" as RSD1200 put it, type of men. So no need to get rid of them as they weren't perceived as big a threat as KR.

I think they discounted the M's as being someone they could intimidate with money or buy off. But they may have misjudged JM.


I am by no means certain this is the answer, but it could have been a part of it.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I have been here a couple years on WS, but only a couple days new on this thread as it kept popping up with action. Does anyone know if tox reports were ever released on the victims? What I found on the autopsy reports were all redacted.

Also, pardon my ignorance but doesn't ones bladder void at death. The AR reports contained some info as if they had been drinking beer or something.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Undigested beer could be found in the stomach of a deceased person, not in the bladder which holds liquid waste products from the kidneys.

 

[Mercedes]

I am following along and you must have read my mind... I am wondering if this is about inheritances. The texts between JM and JW, AM and DR, in the time frame just prior to the murders are so odd. If those texts pertain to the murders, then there could be multiple motives. Perhaps little S stood to inherit an enormous share, so rather than parenting or custody being the issue in eliminating so many people, it could be control of a generation-skipping trust fund setup by an elderly relative? As for the M's, eliminating DR leaves BJM and JM to inherit what might be more than anyone knows or thinks from the M's, and just who inherited the DR/CR properties? It is also odd, as others point out, that JW left his belongings on Brown's property when the W's have so much available space on their own properties, as though someone in power in the W family told them they could not leave anything there. LT Kenda says homicide is always about Love, Money or Revenge. I am thinking Money...

I think your idea about an inheritance may be a good one. :thinking:

 

[Betty P]

Which is why, without a link to a genealogy breakdown, I don't believe for a second Grandma W is a Gamble.

Heirs to billion dollar companies usually don't breed pigs in rural Ohio, and have truck-driving teen parent grandsons.

At present, its just a rumor on social media. We really should avoid discussing it here. Sleuthing of the Wagner family is off limits for now. See tlcy's special notes on the first page of this thread. That could change, but for now we can't discuss it. Sorry! Check with mods if you have a question.

 

[IceIce9]

Which is why, without a link to a genealogy breakdown, I don't believe for a second Grandma W is a Gamble.

Heirs to billion dollar companies usually don't breed pigs in rural Ohio, and have truck-driving teen parent grandsons.

I'm guessing that heirs to billion dollar companies aren't going to be living in Pike or Adams county.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I think your idea about an inheritance may be a good one. :thinking:

71 acres x $1700/acre = $120,000 IF Chris Sr. and Dana owned the land (not their bank). Unless they had a will which specified their assets should go to the Manleys, their assets will be divided among surviving children and heirs of deceased children. The Manleys wouldn't get any of Chris Sr.'s and DR's assets, therefore, money isn't a motive for JM being involved.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Anyone can google "heirs to Proctor & Gamble" fortune. None live in Pike County. None raise pigs. All have enviable educations from very prestigious universities. The Gamble heirs attended very prestigious, expensive universities and are very active in social and women's rights throughout the world.

 

[smc1225]

The redacted areas hide evidence that the victims had injuries besides bullet holes.

I think so as well. There is definitely something there that they don't want out to the public. Possibly something that makes it less a random crime, more personal?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Imo, JM may have failed a polygraph denying that he was helping at the grow op. He and his sister may have been there early in the am to start watering the plants and checking the temperature and humidity.

 

[bighairdontcare]

Four years in prison for destroying a $350 gps tracker? I may grab my suitcase and go to Ohio to stand outside the courthouse to protest!

Coming from someone that has and currently works for the court , I can tell you that gps equipment is pricey- and, actually $350 seems pretty low for a gps tracker. I can tell you that a gps ankle monitor costs at least $1000.


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