IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #61

[tuffgongc9]

I don't subscribe to the idea that BG definitely walked the bridge before. It's in disrepair, but not dangerous unless you walk right off the side. Of course the entities that own the bridge will claim it's very dangerous and off limits to minimize culpability if anything happened. It's not like it is a high wire. Maybe you trip, or have a misstep, but if you pay attention to your steps it's a simple walk across. Has anyone been seriously injured or fallen off the bridge? I doubt it. This is out of hundreds or thousands walking it over the years. In the photos BG is looking down minding his foot placement. Moreover, he just watched two young teenage girls cross it with no problem. Who knows, he could have been up there for the first time only because the girls were up there first. Walking that bridge just isn't as risky a proposition as some people make it seem.

It seems he was likely familiar with the area, but again 20 minutes of lurking around in the woods would give him most of the information needed. We're talking about a guy psychotic enough to murder young innocent girls. Maybe we're giving him too much credit with an intricately planned and careful crime. Maybe it was hastily planned and he had some luck as well. I do think BG knew the area to an extent, but I don't necessarily think it means he knew it well or spent a lot of previous time there.

I've said it several times, I personally don't think he's local. I'd think it's likely he was from the area had they not had any photos or audio. With that evidence and a 250K reward if he lived near there, was a relative of somewhere there, or even lived there years ago I think this would be solved. I'm near sure of it UNLESS they have had a suspect for awhile and are either waiting for him to slip up or for more evidence to strengthen a case. If they don't have a very serious POI at this point I'm afraid he's long gone. Then hopefully advances in technology and/or a slip up in the future could eventually solve it. All MOs.

 

[Piney Woods]

It seems he was likely familiar with the area, but again 20 minutes of lurking around in the woods would give him most of the information needed. We're talking about a guy psychotic enough to murder young innocent girls. Maybe we're giving him too much credit with an intricately planned and careful crime. Maybe it was hastily planned and he had some luck as well. I do think BG knew the area to an extent, but I don't necessarily think it means he knew it well or spent a lot of previous time there.

Well said. I don't believe it was some big planned out action but it wasn't necessarily a spur of the moment thing either. It wouldn't take too long to assess an area as viable environment to commit a crime like this. I think he would have attacked any women who crossed his path once he set up the ambush.

If they don't have a very serious POI at this point I'm afraid he's long gone. Then hopefully advances in technology and/or a slip up in the future could eventually solve it. All MOs.

I strongly suspect that law enforcement probably has DNA from the killer. (Just my opinion) He'll screw up eventually and get entered into CODIS on something unrelated.

 

[Maplesyrup]

I agree. Apparently there are local people that aren't familiar with the bridge so it's hard to imagine an outsider being so familiar that he'll cross it with his hands in his pockets. Some people have reported that the bridge looks very unsafe. I can imagine someone crossing it in the manner BG did if he's walked it before or if he had a job that regularly dealt with heights.

I'm currently leaning toward the opinion of BG being a local, and that LE knows more than what they are letting on. I think they know their man, but that they don't have enough to charge him yet.

On the other hand, I definitely can't rule out the possibility of this being someone who is a SK from out of town. Maybe this is what he does...stalks potential victims in rural park like areas. Other than the case of the girls from Utah, are there any other similar murders that are similar to this one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually I don't think he was as uninformed crossing the bridge as some may think. He probably spent part of the day watching the few people around the high bridge that day. If he was hunting a victim/victims he may have had a good vantage point from which to observe where people stepped while walking on the bridge. He already knew it was safe enough to cross since the girls were on it. He likely had been across it who knows how many times that day [or days leading up to his attack] as he scouted his hunting ground. If the bridge was the key to his successful attack, then I would presume that he made sure he knew the weak spots and areas areas with holes, and stayed off to the sides where it was most reinforced. He wouldn't leave something as important as his own safety and impending attack to chance. Just my thoughts and IMO only.

 

[Peace777]

Question for those who think BG is a serial killer: Which unsolved cases (within or outside of the state of Indiana) do you think he could be linked to--and why?

I know the Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins case has come up numerous times as a possible connection but I wonder if there might be others (perhaps cases where there is only one vicitim, or maybe the victim is older or male instead of female etc...).

A second somewhat related question: Could BG be a serial rapist instead of a serial killer? Maybe his regualr criminal routine is to stalk or attack young females but this was his first murder. Things may have escalated out of his control with two victims (Libby and Abby) which caused him to panic and kill the girls--hence some of the 'mistakes' like leaving behind video/audio..

Found this about serial rapists does BG fit these behaviors? "From 1984 to 1986, FBI Special Agents assigned to the National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC) interviewed 41 men who were responsible for raping 837 victims. " http://crimeandclues.com/2013/01/26/the-criminal-behavior-of-the-serial-rapist/

 

[Cryptic]

Many of you assume that the murderer used a firearm but a handgun can be tracked, a knife or even a rock cannot.

It would be better to say that a hand gun might be traceable. There are generally two ways to legally purchase weapons in the US:
A. From a licensed dealer (FFL)
B. From a private individual in a private sale.

Purchases from As can probably be tracked. Purchases from Bs are near impossible to track in many states.

It is possible to purchase weapons using method "B" in flea markets (pretty rare today as owners of such markets tend to ban gun sales), word of mouth, looking for private sellers at gun shows (private sellers at shows are harder to find today), or most commonly, going to gun sales sites on the inter net.

In short, legally purchasing an untraceable weapon may involve going through a few more hoops today than in past years, it is still easy to do in many states.

 

[Brighty]

It would be better to say that a hand gun might be traceable. There are generally two ways to legally purchase weapons in the US:
A. From a licensed dealer (FFL)
B. From a private individual in a private sale.

Purchases from As can probably be tracked. Purchases from Bs are near impossible to track in many states.

It is possible to purchase weapons using method "B" in flea markets (pretty rare today as owners of such markets tend to ban gun sales), word of mouth, looking for private sellers at gun shows (private sellers at shows are harder to find today), or most commonly, going to gun sales sites on the inter net.

In short, legally purchasing an untraceable weapon may involve going through a few more hoops today than in past years, it is still easy to do in many states.

Firearm sales sites on the internet only ship to people with a Federal Firearms License; if you don't have one then the firearm is shipped to a dealer near you and you have to meet the same requirements as to buy a new firearm from that dealer to pick it up. In fact if you don't have all that set up ahead of time they will not allow you to purchase.

Private sellers is still a way to buy without doing paperwork but even many individuals are making the transaction through a licensed dealer to protect themselves. It is possible to buy a firearm without doing paperwork but not easy. Criminals can still buy firearms from other criminals and always will be able to because they obviously don't bother to follow the laws- but pretty tough for people that want to follow the law to find someone to sell to them without paperwork/dealer oversight. Some states are passing laws to regulate inheriting firearms or gifts of firearms so it is becoming increasingly harder to get a firearm without paperwork.

 

[Burnt Toast]

I don't subscribe to the idea that BG definitely walked the bridge before. It's in disrepair, but not dangerous unless you walk right off the side. Of course the entities that own the bridge will claim it's very dangerous and off limits to minimize culpability if anything happened. It's not like it is a high wire. Maybe you trip, or have a misstep, but if you pay attention to your steps it's a simple walk across. Has anyone been seriously injured or fallen off the bridge? I doubt it. This is out of hundreds or thousands walking it over the years. In the photos BG is looking down minding his foot placement. Moreover, he just watched two young teenage girls cross it with no problem. Who knows, he could have been up there for the first time only because the girls were up there first. Walking that bridge just isn't as risky a proposition as some people make it seem.

It seems he was likely familiar with the area, but again 20 minutes of lurking around in the woods would give him most of the information needed. We're talking about a guy psychotic enough to murder young innocent girls. Maybe we're giving him too much credit with an intricately planned and careful crime. Maybe it was hastily planned and he had some luck as well. I do think BG knew the area to an extent, but I don't necessarily think it means he knew it well or spent a lot of previous time there.

I've said it several times, I personally don't think he's local. I'd think it's likely he was from the area had they not had any photos or audio. With that evidence and a 250K reward if he lived near there, was a relative of somewhere there, or even lived there years ago I think this would be solved. I'm near sure of it UNLESS they have had a suspect for awhile and are either waiting for him to slip up or for more evidence to strengthen a case. If they don't have a very serious POI at this point I'm afraid he's long gone. Then hopefully advances in technology and/or a slip up in the future could eventually solve it. All MOs.

i personally think that those walking the bridge their first time do so with their hand out of their pockets and are walking in the center of the bridge. i think the fact that he is walking nearer to the edge with his hands in his pockets eludes to a familiarity with the bridge. it shows confidence.

 

[Burnt Toast]

It would be better to say that a hand gun might be traceable. There are generally two ways to legally purchase weapons in the US:
A. From a licensed dealer (FFL)
B. From a private individual in a private sale.

Purchases from As can probably be tracked. Purchases from Bs are near impossible to track in many states.

It is possible to purchase weapons using method "B" in flea markets (pretty rare today as owners of such markets tend to ban gun sales), word of mouth, looking for private sellers at gun shows (private sellers at shows are harder to find today), or most commonly, going to gun sales sites on the inter net.

In short, legally purchasing an untraceable weapon may involve going through a few more hoops today than in past years, it is still easy to do in many states.

i go to gun shows with my friends who have a interest in firearms a few times a year. there are countless people selling guns. their are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of guns at any given show for sale. tables line the room. most states because of the "gun show loophole" do not require a background check to buy a gun.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Found this about serial rapists does BG fit these behaviors? "From 1984 to 1986, FBI Special Agents assigned to the National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC) interviewed 41 men who were responsible for raping 837 victims. " http://crimeandclues.com/2013/01/26/the-criminal-behavior-of-the-serial-rapist/

we do not know that there is any sexual component to the delphi murders. i highly doubt there was.

 

[Evania]

This is part "photo discussion thread" and part "regular discussion thread" related, and the two can't really be separated to make my point so if it's okay, I would like to post it here to see what people think. It's just really bothering me.

In the picture of Abby on the bridge, many people including me, say that they can make out a man lurking behind a tree. It isn't totally clear and it is difficult to make out, but some of the talented people on here have cleaned it up to make it plausible that it **could** be BG.

Based on that, it looks like he is heading toward the bridge from the direction of the crime scene. Abby and Libby are already on the part of the bridge that was past the creek when this photo was taken. When you put the timetable in place of when he intercepted them by the time they were completely on the other side of the bridge, I think it's entirely possible that the figure that people are thinking is him, could actually be him. Maybe the pic Libby took of Abby wasn't so much about Abby but because she noticed movement behind the trees?

IF it is him, again mere speculation, then seeing that he's heading from the direction of the crime scene, would make me wonder if he scoped out any secluded "kill" spots within minutes of the abduction. That to me would seem like he is more "experienced" that he can do all this on the fly. It also may lend credence to the theory about it being a crime of opportunity. JMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bus_face]

Th
IF it is him, again mere speculation, then seeing that he's heading from the direction of the crime scene, would make me wonder if he scoped out any secluded "kill" spots within minutes of the abduction. That to me would seem like he is more "experienced" that he can do all this on the fly. It also may lend credence to the theory about it being a crime of opportunity. JMO

You're right. But he showed up did a double abduction (very very rare ) and double murder (insanely / beyond rare) and ghosted in and out without anyone noticing a getaway vehicle or even seeing himin the area. Poof

Oh, yah it's a remote,
Drug addled part of Indiana hmm.

Does not sound like a crime of opportunity. Sounds like 1) a planned hit or-- 2) someone as smart as he is evil w a very real hate of young females.

The familiarity w the bridge and surrounding area is obvious. Based on his walk and on the killing area being nearby and secluded. It may not have been his familiarity since he may have been told to go get them and bring them down to the killing area.

LE must know this is a drug related crime and it's going to take years to penetrate these circles. No need to release more info since the BG is a hired guy and
Could literally be anywhere now.
Just MhO and thanks

 

[Evania]

You're right. But he showed up did a double abduction (very very rare ) and double murder (insanely / beyond rare) and ghosted in and out without anyone noticing a getaway vehicle or even seeing himin the area. Poof

Oh, yah it's a remote,
Drug addled part of Indiana hmm.

Does not sound like a crime of opportunity. Sounds like 1) a planned hit or-- 2) someone as smart as he is evil w a very real hate of young females.

The familiarity w the bridge and surrounding area is obvious. Based on his walk and on the killing area being nearby and secluded. It may not have been his familiarity since he may have been told to go get them and bring them down to the killing area.

LE must know this is a drug related crime and it's going to take years to penetrate these circles. No need to release more info since the BG is a hired guy and
Could literally be anywhere now.
Just MhO and thanks

Thanks for the feedback!

Yeah, my top theory is this being a local because of familiarity with the bridge. I also think this case is more complicated than the facts we currently know based on LE saying that it has a "few twists" to it. Maybe it wasn't a crime of opportunity as much as him casing out his chosen crime scene beforehand. IMO, it doesn't discount the theories of the girls being the intended targets.

I think it mostly shows a cold calculated killer that was walking to get the girls after picking out his chosen location of their murders. IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Burnt Toast]

You're right. But he showed up did a double abduction (very very rare ) and double murder (insanely / beyond rare) and ghosted in and out without anyone noticing a getaway vehicle or even seeing himin the area. Poof

Oh, yah it's a remote,
Drug addled part of Indiana hmm.

Does not sound like a crime of opportunity. Sounds like 1) a planned hit or-- 2) someone as smart as he is evil w a very real hate of young females.

The familiarity w the bridge and surrounding area is obvious. Based on his walk and on the killing area being nearby and secluded. It may not have been his familiarity since he may have been told to go get them and bring them down to the killing area.

LE must know this is a drug related crime and it's going to take years to penetrate these circles. No need to release more info since the BG is a hired guy and
Could literally be anywhere now.
Just MhO and thanks

there is absolutely no indication that drugs were involved the murders. i personally don't think there are too many hits on teenage girls. a hit sounds very unlikely. could it be that he wasn't seen leaving the area because he didn't have to, and that he lived very near to the proximity of the CS and could get home with no one seeing him? to me that sounds the most plausible.

 

[Bus_face]

T

Yeah, my top theory is this being a local Maybe it wasn't a crime of opportunity as much as him casing out his chosen crime scene beforehand. IMO, it doesn't discount the theories of the girls being the intended targets.

I think it mostly shows a cold calculated killer that was walking to get the girls after picking out his chosen location of their murders. IMO

Cheers, mate this case has so much to absorb it can make a person delirious. I just don't believe in coincidences stacking up like this.
Local dude scouting a location making a plan, maybe. & finding two victims walking out where he happened to be hmm ok I guess. Inserting and extracting himself with zero witness or cameras beyond a couple stills that L blessedly caught probably unintentionally or any shred of evidence beyond footprints is just too much for me,
Personally.

Again- just putting it out there -double abduction very very rare double homocide is legendarily rare. So why did this happen ?
<modsnip>
Just mho

 

[Bus_face]

there is absolutely no indication that drugs were involved the murders. i personally don't think there are too many hits on teenage girls.

<modsnip> Not hating your theory at all, it makes sense.
Seems naive to think there couldn't be a connection. Organized crime m/o threatens families once someone is in lockup. Pay up or else.
Add to the fact this is one way methed/ out midwestern town and idk why it seems so far fetched.
And btw, if he is so local he just sauntered in and out of an area with not a lot of Public access and roads that would lower the suspect candidate pool to what? 40 ppl? I have enough confidence le to have it figured out already if tat were true.
Cheers mate thanks for the intersting discussion

 

[Peace777]

we do not know that there is any sexual component to the delphi murders. i highly doubt there was.

If no SA what do you think the motive would be then? Hmmm

 

[Momma2cam]

we do not know that there is any sexual component to the delphi murders. i highly doubt there was.

You may find discussion in the scanner thread for this case interesting.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

[Burnt Toast]

If no SA what do you think the motive would be then? Hmmm

i don't think there was time for a SA to occur, and i certainly don't think the person set out to kill the girls or anyone that day. i think its likely that a confrontation of some type escalated to a murder, perhaps over panic. he may have injured a girl during a confrontation and in a panic murdered them. i think they were dead within a half an hour of their encounter with him.

 

[Burnt Toast]

You may find discussion in the scanner thread for this case interesting.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

yes, i am quite aware of what is on the scanner thread. it does absolutely nothing to change my opinion. to me that is jumping to conclusion without enough facts.

 

[Henry2326]

i don't think there was time for a SA to occur, and i certainly don't think the person set out to kill the girls or anyone that day. i think its likely that a confrontation of some type escalated to a murder, perhaps over panic. he may have injured a girl during a confrontation and in a panic murdered them. i think they were dead within a half an hour of their encounter with him.

Agreed....possibly an intimidating person with anger issues. Once he lost control of the situation, anger triggered violence.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk