OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #29

[jk204]

I agree, you can't just go buy a $25-$30k bike and it not throw up flags. I made the mistake of withdrawing money from my savings more than three times in one month, (two separate months in a certain amount of time) and I thought they were going to have a coronary. I'd banked there since I was a teenager (and that's been awhile)! The conversation was a bit terse on my end, tbh.

I think if CR1 made that kind of money on his pot endeavor, (My example was to show what could be made via only weed.) the used cars would be a good route to launder it. It's one of the more popular ways to launder, and he and DR were selling used cars. We've never seen the first leaf though so who knows.

I just don't see them as big players in the drug world. Selling some weed to maybe support a hobby in the derbies, and get their own used car business set up, yeah, and build up some land over the last several years, yeah, but they don't strike me as big shot dealers.

I've seen both kinds of dealers. The ones who live in 30 year old trailers, with the last car they bought surrounded by weeds b/c it quit, and their next car cost them less than a grand and they drove it till it dropped and then left it where it stopped, and if they had any, their kids were eventually removed. These folks had habits and they needed money to support their habits so they sold.

Then, there were the ones who had very nice homes, lived in nice subdivisions, had very nice cars, etc... and made some bank, b/c they don't partake, and handled their affairs in a different way. One, which totally blew me away, lived within a rock's throw of me, at my old place, and I'd have never guessed. None of us would have. Everyone on the street was shocked. Retired, grandparents, nice home, and cars, the wife had a little part-time job. He'd apparently been doing it for years (not weed either). Everyone, including his spouse, was completely shocked. I felt really bad for her.

I don't think they were big players either. But it doesn't matter if they were. What matters is what the assaillants believed.

It's very posdible someone believed CR was hiding a lot of money with his pot operation and with all these junk cars. Even if it's not true.

A motive is a just motive. Greed could be it. Maybe the assaillants went home to home to look for the money and never found it.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't think they were big players either. But it doesn't matter if they were. What matters is what the assaillants believed.

It's very posdible someone believed CR was hiding a lot of money with his pot operation and with all these junk cars. Even if it's not true.

A motive is a just motive. Greed could be it. Maybe the assaillants went home to home to look for the money and never found it.

Agreed! I've thought about that true story, that Truman Capote made into a book, and movie, many times with this case. The movie was called In Cold Blood.

 

[Iron city]

I agree, you can't just go buy a $25-$30k bike and it not throw up flags. I made the mistake of withdrawing money from my savings more than three times in one month, (two separate months in a certain amount of time) and I thought they were going to have a coronary. I'd banked there since I was a teenager (and that's been awhile)! The conversation was a bit terse on my end, tbh.

I think if CR1 made that kind of money on his pot endeavor, (My example was to show what could be made via only weed.) the used cars would be a good route to launder it. It's one of the more popular ways to launder, and he and DR were selling used cars. We've never seen the first leaf though so who knows.

I just don't see them as big players in the drug world. Selling some weed to maybe support a hobby in the derbies, and get their own used car business set up, yeah, and build up some land over the last several years, yeah, but they don't strike me as big shot dealers.

I've seen both kinds of dealers. The ones who live in 30 year old trailers, with the last car they bought surrounded by weeds b/c it quit, and their next car cost them less than a grand and they drove it till it dropped and then left it where it stopped, and if they had any, their kids were eventually removed. These folks had habits and they needed money to support their habits so they sold.

Then, there were the ones who had very nice homes, lived in nice subdivisions, had very nice cars, etc... and made some bank, b/c they don't partake, and handled their affairs in a different way. One, which totally blew me away, lived within a rock's throw of me, at my old place, and I'd have never guessed. None of us would have. Everyone on the street was shocked. Retired, grandparents, nice home, and cars, the wife had a little part-time job. He'd apparently been doing it for years (not weed either). Everyone, including his spouse, was completely shocked. I felt really bad for her.

No no doubt you can make the money and if your saving you can build it up as quick as you sell weed. The problem is still spending it. Bills for example most are paid through an account of some sort. Sure you can buy gas, food, clothes, material to build whatever cars, dogs, chickens etc. what's that a few thousand per month? Bottom line is basically if you spend 10k cash at once in any over the table transaction the money has to be accounted for. So down payment on DRs home was proven as creditable income prior to the close of the sale. Even with the cars eventually if your popping up with 30k cash like I bought some cars at auction and made this cash flipping them the IRS is going to say where is our cut (called taxes). Point 1 or 2 or even 5 cars flipped and sold like I'm sure we have all saw people do is fine, but this scale wouldn't go unnoticed if he was trying to clam the cash that way.

 

[Dudly]

I agree, you can't just go buy a $25-$30k bike and it not throw up flags. I made the mistake of withdrawing money from my savings more than three times in one month, (two separate months in a certain amount of time) and I thought they were going to have a coronary. I'd banked there since I was a teenager (and that's been awhile)! The conversation was a bit terse on my end, tbh.

I think if CR1 made that kind of money on his pot endeavor, (My example was to show what could be made via only weed.) the used cars would be a good route to launder it. It's one of the more popular ways to launder, and he and DR were selling used cars. We've never seen the first leaf though so who knows.

I just don't see them as big players in the drug world. Selling some weed to maybe support a hobby in the derbies, and get their own used car business set up, yeah, and build up some land over the last several years, yeah, but they don't strike me as big shot dealers.

I've seen both kinds of dealers. The ones who live in 30 year old trailers, with the last car they bought surrounded by weeds b/c it quit, and their next car cost them less than a grand and they drove it till it dropped and then left it where it stopped, and if they had any, their kids were eventually removed. These folks had habits and they needed money to support their habits so they sold.

Then, there were the ones who had very nice homes, lived in nice subdivisions, had very nice cars, etc... and made some bank, b/c they don't partake, and handled their affairs in a different way. One, which totally blew me away, lived within a rock's throw of me, at my old place, and I'd have never guessed. None of us would have. Everyone on the street was shocked. Retired, grandparents, nice home, and cars, the wife had a little part-time job. He'd apparently been doing it for years (not weed either). Everyone, including his spouse, was completely shocked. I felt really bad for her.

Why is it not a leaf has been shown when the DeWine made such a big deal of there being a commercial grow operations at multiple locations? LE usually shows lots of pictures of grow operations they find. The one under the body shop that had bank vault doors had lots of pics of the plants and lights, etc.. This whole investigation is just plain bizarre...
If the Rhodens made big money selling pot or other drugs, they sure did not show it. I thought of another activity that can get you in big trouble with bad people. Gambling debt. One possibility would be betting big money on demo derby cars and someone finding out your winning car was possibly not legal. I was at a poker game one time. It was a small town like Piketon. There were $500 and $1000 chips on the table. You would never have known any of the players had money like that from looking at them. Of course no cash was visible and the chips were just plain colored chips. I was just passing through with another person and I sure got the "what the hell are you doing here look". I'm not sure how often they played but I know the location changed often. You could drop a lot of money in games like that.

 

[jk204]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4683690/Pictured-people-laser-focus-multiple-murder-hunt.html

News from Alaska with pictures

 

[Dudly]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4683690/Pictured-people-laser-focus-multiple-murder-hunt.html

News from Alaska with pictures

Wow, talk about sensationalizing a story....That story could be an example of it to teach how it is done...

 

[Betty P]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4683690/Pictured-people-laser-focus-multiple-murder-hunt.html

News from Alaska with pictures

Thanks! From the link:

It can be revealed they were detained several times on state boundaries and the US border with Canada, in one case for 12 hours, as they were questioned about their journey, background and future plans by officials.

But they said they had to flee after receiving death threats and becoming fed up with the rumor mill that had engulfed their old home town in Ohio.

BBM

Every other state and federal LE they met up with on their journey raised a red flag and questioned them, yet Ohio says "No problem. Let them go We have our laser focus, but we don't want to question them." Very suspicious behavior on the part of DeWine, BCI and Junk.

Oh and we have another story in the news this week about 2 men who murdered 4 others over MJ biz. LE (including FBI) already have them in jail and the bodies found. In about 1 week of the last of them going missing.

ETA: I wonder if it was the FBI who put out the orders to stop and question the W family. And each time Ohio said to let them go. How else would border crossing agents and other LE know to stop them? Their potential involvement in the Rhoden Massacre hadn't hit the news by the time they left for AK. Doubtful BCI was putting out the alert, but someone was.

 

[jk204]

Wow, talk about sensationalizing a story....That story could be an example of it to teach how it is done...

Well, it is DailyMail. But still, the pictures are interesting.

The lawyer put the Mexican Cartel back on the plate. I don't believe it at all. I don't think it will play in their favour to make such comment. If that was the info on business associates they shared with LE, then it is a big disappointment. But that's jmo. What do I know.

 

[Betty P]

Well, it is DailyMail. But still, the pictures are interesting.

The lawyer put the Mexican Cartel back on the plate. I don't believe it at all. I don't think it will play in their favour to make such comment. If that was the info on business associates they shared with LE, then it is a big disappointment. But that's jmo. What do I know.

Mexican Cartel would play well with a local jury if Junk ever brings them to trial. Locals would probably feel much better blaming the deaths on "outsiders". IF this case ever goes to trial, I hope someone can find a way to bring federal charges, then hold it in another venue. Because no matter the evidence, if this family was involved, they will skate. Becasuse they're "good Christians".

 

[Dudly]

Thanks! From the link:




BBM

Every other state and federal LE they met up with on their journey raised a red flag and questioned them, yet Ohio says "No problem. Let them go We have our laser focus, but we don't want to question them." Very suspicious behavior on the part of DeWine, BCI and Junk.

Oh and we have another story in the news this week about 2 men who murdered 4 others over MJ biz. LE (including FBI) already have them in jail and the bodies found. In about 1 week of the last of them going missing.

ETA: I wonder if it was the FBI who put out the orders to stop and question the W family. And each time Ohio said to let them go. How else would border crossing agents and other LE know to stop them? Their potential involvement in the Rhoden Massacre hadn't hit the news by the time they left for AK. Doubtful BCI was putting out the alert, but someone was.

What has BCI and DeWine done in this case that wasn't suspicious behavior?

 

[Betty P]

What has BCI and DeWine done in this case that wasn't suspicious behavior?

The FBI and DEA must be sitting back, shaking their heads, taking notes. But DeWine, et al are likely safe from DOJ right now. At least until after 2018 or 2020. They can continue playing dumb on this case for a while longer.

ETA: I hope the Feds have been doing their own electronic surveillance.

 

[Margo/Mom]

If CR1 had gotten pretty good at growing, and let's say the big garage had an upstairs in it, (kind of like a barn w/ a hay loft), with, for the sake of easy figuring, 16 indoor pot plants with 600 watt grow lamps over them.


One plant with a 600 watt grow lamp, can yield up to 20 ounces for an experienced grower, with the right grow room, nutrients, no disease, etc. Let's say 16 ounces for the sake of keeping it simple.


That is 16 pounds of weed. Just for CR1. (For arguments sake, let's say he and KR hand their own seperate grows seeing as how KR had his own tray at his location and may have been getting ready to transplant outside. A plant grown and tended outdoors can definitey yield a pound of usable weed.)


16 pounds of weed, at the low end of the price spectrum, could have grossed around $40,000 - 48+ k, per grow depending on how he sold, quality, etc... He could have easily grown two cycles per year indoors. (I'm sure that money was not going into the bank either.)


These are men who were raised by a father who gardened, and raised fruit trees, as a means to feed his family. A very large family. I'm sure CR1 helped in tending that garden, and may have developed a green thumb.

This kind of scenario has always made sense to me. A modest sort of living, or augmentation to other means of support.

What it would do, in addition, would be to put them into contact with other folks in the trade--as in the folks along the food chain distributing and marketing. Possibly also into word of mouth knowledge of doing a value-add to their product via conversion to "shatter." Someone with a bit of ambition might easily look for ways to expand, either through a bigger operation, new product line, or branching into other areas of the trade (such as distribution). These are the kinds of things that pose an economic threat to others. And others might tell them to forget about it, but they would have to be willing to back that up. And they might likely be sufficiently savvy to recognize that taking down a single R was likely to simply draw a whole lot of others out of the woodwork. IOW--a case of go big or go home. And who knows what other personal scores might have been percolating around for awhile.

So--they may well have been small-timers, but they had bigger ambitions that landed them in trouble.

 

[Margo/Mom]

BBM

I can almost guarantee that money never hit the bank. If the R's were into drug trafficking or anything else illegal there is no way any money was ever put in a bank account from the proceeds. The real estate he bought, some of it (DR's was from a relative), the rest he could have just made a deal with whoever owned it and changed the deed over. The building he would have just bought materials for or had someone to build it. None of those transactions would have been reported to the IRS. Case in point, a client bought a house here in town for 15000.00 with cash money he won at the casino. Deed was changed into his name at the court house by the seller and he moved in the next day. The money never went into his bank account. I doubt it even went into the sellers bank account. In fact it probably ended up back in the casino.

Casinos are a good place to launder money, BTW. Buy a bunch of chips. Play a few games, Cash out for nearly the same amount.

 

[Bootsctr]

Well, it is DailyMail. But still, the pictures are interesting.

The lawyer put the Mexican Cartel back on the plate. I don't believe it at all. I don't think it will play in their favour to make such comment. If that was the info on business associates they shared with LE, then it is a big disappointment. But that's jmo. What do I know.

The pictures are great! It's good to see the kiddos albeit thru shopping carts. And the Kawasaki is cool. Daily Mail always has the best pics! LM looks a lot younger in that picture with the great grandkids.

Agree about the Mexican Cartel. Then again I don't know much either except the kids look like they could identify someone if they saw them that night if they knew them. Bless their little hearts!

 

[Margo/Mom]

Why is it not a leaf has been shown when the DeWine made such a big deal of there being a commercial grow operations at multiple locations? LE usually shows lots of pictures of grow operations they find. The one under the body shop that had bank vault doors had lots of pics of the plants and lights, etc.. This whole investigation is just plain bizarre...
If the Rhodens made big money selling pot or other drugs, they sure did not show it. I thought of another activity that can get you in big trouble with bad people. Gambling debt. One possibility would be betting big money on demo derby cars and someone finding out your winning car was possibly not legal. I was at a poker game one time. It was a small town like Piketon. There were $500 and $1000 chips on the table. You would never have known any of the players had money like that from looking at them. Of course no cash was visible and the chips were just plain colored chips. I was just passing through with another person and I sure got the "what the hell are you doing here look". I'm not sure how often they played but I know the location changed often. You could drop a lot of money in games like that.

I think generally the lots of pics phenom comes into play when arrests are made at the end of an investigation. IOW, nothing to jeopardize. Letting the public in on any ongoing investigations is a whole other thing.

I recall a couple of years back a Central Ohio drug bust that found millions of dollars in the walls of a house. Made big news at the time as the biggest raid on record. Tried to google it and came up with way too many raids much more recent. A smallish bust might be a single car carrying $300,000, or product having a street value that high. Mind boggling.

 

[IceIce9]

Wow, talk about sensationalizing a story....That story could be an example of it to teach how it is done...

This article mentions death threats as one of the reasons they fled to Alaska. If death threats against the W family has been mentioned before I must have missed it.

But- if the family is truly fearing for their safety would they have moved to Alaska and posted it on Facebook?

 

[rsd1200]

Hope this isn't against TOS. I got a little more curious about the land and such so have been taking a look. If someone has land that's paid for, that could be used as collateral to borrow against, especially by placing a mobile home with an occupant, on the land. IAN into real estate, so if my terminology is incorrect, please forgive, and feel free to let me know, and I'll update.


CR1 Property Acquired:


#040382999999
799 Left Fork Rd., Lucasville, OH
Date Acquired: 5/30/2008
Sale Price $0
1989 MH 14x57 (appears to have been on property at time of transfer).
As of 6/2016 Appraised Value = $6,380


040532020000
S Side 4740 Camp Creek Rd C-22, Lucasville, OH
Date Acquired 05/15/08
Sale Price $8,000
10 x 12 shed on property at time of sale.
At time of sale there was no trailer, and doesnt' appear to be one installed until sometime in 2014, based on map data.
FCV $6,940
Shed $60.00


230077000000
4203 N SIDE UNION RD C-30
.35 Acres
CR1 acquired from TR, mil. on 03/26/09 for $1,800
Taxes were delinquent on the property when he purchased (unsure if this is how he acquired or not).
FCV $1,830

#230462
M/H only, bought, and placed, on 4077 UHR property.
4077 UHR, Piketon, OH
Date Acquired: 05/09/09
No sale price listed.
2002 Fortune MH 14x60(Owner Occupied)
June 2016 appraised value $3,360




The 1084 Left Fork property was purchased by CR1 but is under CR1 et al.
040204000000
Listed under CR1 Et Al
1084 LEFT FORK ROAD. Otway, OH
Six Acres
Date Acquired:12/27/2010
Looks like CR1 may have picked this up due to delinquent taxes.
Sale Price is listed as $0.00
FCV $6,740 for land
Small structure on property valued at $363.00

Land FCV = $21,890


--------------------------------------------
The R siblings' father, Clarence, (CRSr.) Passed 07/16/2008


CR1 Et Al Land


040206000000
799 LEFT FORK RD T-312, Lucasville, OH
40 Acres, no buildings
CRsr acquired in 08/06/04 @ $21,150
NRT EtAl acquired 02/17/11 $0.00
CR1 EtAl acquired 10/09/12 $5,000
As of June 2016 Land Value $18,370


04020500000
799 LEFT FORK RD T-312
Date Acquired 09/30/2008
Eight Acres
Barn 34 x 60
MH
CR1 et al paid $4,000 in 2008
It then went to NRT et al in 02/2011
Then CR1 got it back in 10/2012 for $5k.
FCV $9,860


04064800000
Part of Left Fork Rd. properties
Seven Acres
CRsr bought this 08/06/2004 for $21,500.00
It went to CR1 Et Al on 1/06/11
FCV estimated at $8,170

The above 57 acres on LF, is worth well over the total $36k FCV.. It has over 500' of road frontage. It's wooded but partially cleared. Has a nice place for a home. Deer hunters, horse folks, people who like seclusion, etc... would be interested in that land. That's some pretty land (and it definitely has a heart shaped pond).


The Rs had land that was paid for, that they could borrow against, if need be.

Final Land Purchases listed only in CR1:
Paid $60,000 on 03/21/2016 for what appears to be two parcels.

18-0504.001
3122 Union Hill Road, Rarden, OH (Scioto County)
Six Acres
Current Value on Scioto Site is $52,220

18-0504.002
2920 Union Hill Road, Rarden, OH (Scioto County)
Two Acres
Current Value on Scioto Site is $15,840

 

[Venom]

Hope this isn't against TOS. I got a little more curious about the land and such so have been taking a look. If someone has land that's paid for, that could be used as collateral to borrow against, especially by placing a mobile home with an occupant, on the land. IAN into real estate, so if my terminology is incorrect, please forgive, and feel free to let me know, and I'll update.


I snipped out all the other purchases from the quoted post to make it easier to see my point



The Rs had land that was paid for, that they could borrow against, if need be.

Final Land Purchases listed only in CR1:
Paid $60,000 on 03/21/2016 for what appears to be two parcels.

18-0504.001
3122 Union Hill Road, Rarden, OH (Scioto County)
Six Acres
Current Value on Scioto Site is $52,220

18-0504.002
2920 Union Hill Road, Rarden, OH (Scioto County)
Two Acres
Current Value on Scioto Site is $15,840

Interesting, these two final ones were purchased exactly a month before the murders.

 

[rsd1200]

No no doubt you can make the money and if your saving you can build it up as quick as you sell weed. The problem is still spending it. Bills for example most are paid through an account of some sort. Sure you can buy gas, food, clothes, material to build whatever cars, dogs, chickens etc. what's that a few thousand per month? Bottom line is basically if you spend 10k cash at once in any over the table transaction the money has to be accounted for. So down payment on DRs home was proven as creditable income prior to the close of the sale. Even with the cars eventually if your popping up with 30k cash like I bought some cars at auction and made this cash flipping them the IRS is going to say where is our cut (called taxes). Point 1 or 2 or even 5 cars flipped and sold like I'm sure we have all saw people do is fine, but this scale wouldn't go unnoticed if he was trying to clam the cash that way.

I don't think they were doing anything near that big though.

 

[rsd1200]

Why is it not a leaf has been shown when the DeWine made such a big deal of there being a commercial grow operations at multiple locations? LE usually shows lots of pictures of grow operations they find. The one under the body shop that had bank vault doors had lots of pics of the plants and lights, etc.. This whole investigation is just plain bizarre...
If the Rhodens made big money selling pot or other drugs, they sure did not show it. I thought of another activity that can get you in big trouble with bad people. Gambling debt. One possibility would be betting big money on demo derby cars and someone finding out your winning car was possibly not legal. I was at a poker game one time. It was a small town like Piketon. There were $500 and $1000 chips on the table. You would never have known any of the players had money like that from looking at them. Of course no cash was visible and the chips were just plain colored chips. I was just passing through with another person and I sure got the "what the hell are you doing here look". I'm not sure how often they played but I know the location changed often. You could drop a lot of money in games like that.

I'm like you, I just don't think that the Rs were into anything big. The cars they were selling were under the $5k range.

The dude that lived near me, who was later busted, was in one of those "Saturday Night Gambling" deals. All of them in that "club" had really good, regular day jobs, and nice homes too. I knew a few folks in them and the rumored locales but I never had that kind of money to even think about gambling at that level. I used to love to play poker but it was never to the scale that I could lose the family farm.

There's a variety of ways to launder money. I've never had a need to do so though... I never thought I'd enjoy spending my time at the Crossbar Hotel. :jail: