OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #29

[Venom]

I'm not putting a whole lot of stock into the articles report of 12 different law agencies questioning them 12 times. I do believe they most likely got questioned at the Canadian border.

 

[Betty P]

I'm not putting a whole lot of stock into the articles report of 12 different law agencies questioning them 12 times. I do believe they most likely got questioned at the Canadian border.

Why would their lawyer admit to something like that? To make them look like martyrs? It only makes them look more suspicious. How would giving that info to the public help their case?

I think you could also add Alaska to that list, too. Alaska LE have probably questioned them as much as they're allowed. They had to be alarmed when it hit the news media about the W family's connection to the 8 murders.

That's at least 3 stops: going into Canada, leaving Canada and locally in AK. Wonder if they were questioned by LE by both countries at each border crossing? Which one detained them for 12 hours? Canadians at the first border crossing? If they were flagged in the Canadian system, it means some US federal agency put them there.

Apparently, all of these detentions and interviews happened before the high profile "raids" on the W properties. Did something happen as a result of the W's moving and the detentions LE made on the way to AK that forced BCI to conduct the raids back in Ohio? Was something revealed in those interviews that made another federal agency call BCI and ask them if they checked XY or Z on the W properties? Were the raids just CYA by BCI?

 

[rsd1200]

Do you know the name of the real estate agent involved in the sale/purchase of DRs property?

Any chance it's the same as the one involved the Ws property sale: it was listed at S* Realtors.

I've done some digging and I'm not sure that the 322 UHR property was listed w/a realtor. Anyone local remember seeing a sign on the property? That may have been a handshake deal. This is how my mil did a lot of her home trades/purchases. If she saw one she liked, she'd just call them up, or see them in town, and ask them if they'd be interested in parting w/the property.

 

[Betty P]

I've done some digging and I'm not sure that the 322 UHR property was listed w/a realtor. Anyone local remember seeing a sign on the property? That may have been a handshake deal. This is how my mil did a lot of her home trades/purchases. If she saw one she liked, she'd just call them up, or see them in town, and ask them if they'd be interested in parting w/the property.

Can't speak for Pike County, but in the Ozarks where I own property inherited from my grandparents farm, I often get letters from people looking to buy my land. They usually don't go through a real estate agent, but hire an attorney to process the paperwork. I haven't sold to them, but the potential buyers sometimes outline how they'll do it, which attorney to contact, etc.

ETA: That brings up another question (I'm full of 'em today, haha) . I sometimes get letters from investment companies looking to buy property from many owners in the general area of the farm. It's scenic, lots of recreation, close to the big city, etc. and is probably becoming a good investment for retirees, rich people's vacation homes, etc. I think these companies are buying up as much land as they can to sell to developers, etc.

Re Rhodens: I wonder if CRSr was getting offers on the various properties he owned from investors, not for vacay properties, but in anticipation of Ohio's then upcoming legalization of MJ? IIRC, that area is known as ideal for cultivation of high quality product and would seem a likely place for real estate investors to shop. Wonder who approached him and, if he angered someone by refusing to sell out? Just a thought.

 

[Dudly]

I'm still shocked that, according to the latest Daily Mail article, 12 different law enforcement agencies saw a reason to stop and question this family. And 12 different times, Ohio's AG said to let them go on. Wow, just wow. This is very important information.

Perhaps that's why BCI went through the charade of searching the Wagner properties after the family had left for AK, to give the appearance of trying to investigate this family? The fact they searched the grandparents estate, Flying W Farms, tipped their hand, though. JMO, there's no future theory about these killings that shouldn't include the patriarchs of the Wagner family and their extensive holdings and business relationships and operations. The answers lie in those connections.

ETA: I'm going to theorize that the W's were detained 12 times on their trip to AK because they were flagged in the national/international LE computer system. Someone, likely federal agencies, put them in the system as criminal suspects. JMO, this indicates to me that federal investigators and Ohio investigators are pursuing this case quite differently. Feds see them as suspects to be detained. Ohio does not.

Feds likely put them in that system so they could be detained and investigated. Since they're not allowed to participate in the actual Ohio investigation, it may be the only card they can play for now where they have jurisdiction. At each of those 12 stops, someone must have called Ohio BCI who told them to let them go. But the Feds wanted them stopped. Here's hoping their presence in AK will give the Feds the opportunity to finally pursue this case on their own.

Wouldn't you love to have been a fly on the wall during that 12 hr detention? I'd love to know what questions were being asked. JMO, since the feds haven't had much access to the investigative work of Ohio BCI since the early days, there must have been something that triggered their interest in the W family from the beginning. Were they already under FBI or DEA surveillance before the murders?

Considering who wrote the article, and how it was written, were they actually stopped that many times? Were they really detained 12 hours? No other source mentions any of this...

 

[Betty P]

Considering who wrote the article, and how it was written, were they actually stopped that many times? Were they really detained 12 hours? No other source mentions any of this...

JMO, but Daily Mail is known for checkbook journalism, aren't they? When I first read the story, I assumed that's why DM got the story instead of Chris Graves. Cincy Enquirer probably doesn't do that and the W's are probably looking to sell their version of the story for easy cash. Seems logical given their current situation.

Daily Mail gets stuff wrong, no doubt. It sounds like they got some of their information from the W's attorney. DM may get it wrong about the number of stops, but seems unlikely they would fabricate the part about them getting stopped by LE on the way. JMO, they may not have been stopped 12 times, but they were probably stopped more than once. The part about them being detained for several hours seems oddly specific, too. I'd be willing to bet internet dollars that part of the story is accurate, too.

JMO, I'm seeing invisible pressure from the Feds on BCI to get moving on this case. The recent increase in raids of local drug dealers, etc. seemed interesting and out of the norm for PCSO & BCI. They may not have had much reason to link these people to the murders, but it seems they probably knew for a long time they were involved in drug manufacturing and dealing. Small town, low population, I mean, come on, they have to have an idea of who's cooking the meth and selling other hard drugs locally. BCI & PCSO likely had enough probable cause months ago to arrest these folks and bring them into the Grand Jury to find out if they knew anything about the Rhoden murders. But they didn't until after the W's moved to AK.

They may have waited until they had more info from other GJ testimony, but it also may have been because of pressure from the Feds after BCI let the W's move to Alaska and after they "blocked" the feds from coming along on the raids of the W farms. Maybe the Feds are telling them "if you don't get moving on this investigation, we're going to do it for you." Maybe their professional courtesy is wearing thin.

JMO, just thinking out loud.

 

[rsd1200]

Remember, the purchase of DR's home was accomplished with cash and a bank mortgage. To save some time, if you go back to the early threads on this case hear at Websleuths, you'll find a lot of discussion on the land transactions, etc. It might save some time on doing the research. They went back to father's ownership, etc. even probate records, IIRC.

From what I recall of that, it didn't appear CRSr had a lot of extra cash he was using to buy up real estate, start new businesses, etc. He had some extra money but not an excessive amount, unless it was cash sitting somewhere on his properties.

Still can't believe this case is still unsolved over a year after the murders. LE has to know who did it, they just don't want to spring the trap because of collateral damage.

I just got started looking at dates, acreage, and how they'd put them together, especially the large LF property, and such, logged them for my own personal use, and thought I'd share. This is land that was handed down, through the family, or acquired over a period of years, relatively inexpensively. The largest purchase that CR1 made, was his most recent, DR's place. He very well could have used the other land as collateral. Nothing screams drug lord to me. Maybe they were but I just don't see it b/c he obtained some land, and sold cheap cars.

 

[Dudly]

I just got started looking at dates, acreage, and how they'd put them together, especially the large LF property, and such, logged them for my own personal use, and thought I'd share. This is land that was handed down, through the family, or acquired over a period of years, relatively inexpensively. The largest purchase that CR1 made, was his most recent, DR's place. He very well could have used the other land as collateral. Nothing screams drug lord to me. Maybe they were but I just don't see it b/c he obtained some land, and sold cheap cars.

Pretty much every road we have went down hasn't made much more sense than any of the others for a motive. But, all are a possibility. Maybe it WAS someone completely of the radar screen for some totally absurd reason....

 

[Dudly]

Just when everyone thought the Mexican Cartel was out of the picture...
http://wdtn.com/2017/07/15/investig...utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_WDTN-TV

 

[Bootsctr]

Just when everyone thought the Mexican Cartel was out of the picture...
http://wdtn.com/2017/07/15/investig...utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_WDTN-TV

OMG! :facepalm:

He believes that someone screwed up and was supposed to pick up the drugs before they made their way to area dealerships. Investigators don’t believe the dealerships were involved, and Balzano said those working at the plant in Mexico may not have even been involved.

They should have shipped it to Nevada. I hear they are sold out of pot there. :giggle:

 

[Venom]

I went back and re-read the Daily Mail article. I can't find where it says that the W's lawyer said they were stopped 12 times. The article states: "It can be revealed they were detained several times on state boundaries and the US border with Canada, in one case for 12 hours, as they were questioned about their journey, background and future plans by officials."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...focus-multiple-murder-hunt.html#ixzz4mwDo3KCv

Well, who is the source that revealed the were stopped several times?

Also the article says that 2000 cannabis plants were found at one place and growth operations at two others. Has the 2000 number been released to the public before?
"Bur police uncovered more than 2000 cannabis plants at one of the four murder scenes and growth operations in two of the others."

 

[rsd1200]

I'm from Ohio and did not know that, either. I guess they are closed in the winter? lol

Open April - November. Even offer nude weddings. Personally, the thought never crossed our minds to get hitched in the buff. Can't imagine hanging that photo up in the den. lol No offense to any nudists out there, if that's your kicks, cool beans.

 

[rsd1200]

I went back and re-read the Daily Mail article. I can't find where it says that the W's lawyer said they were stopped 12 times. The article states: "It can be revealed they were detained several times on state boundaries and the US border with Canada, in one case for 12 hours, as they were questioned about their journey, background and future plans by officials."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...focus-multiple-murder-hunt.html#ixzz4mwDo3KCv

Well, who is the source that revealed the were stopped several times?

Also the article says that 2000 cannabis plants were found at one place and growth operations at two others. Has the 2000 number been released to the public before?
"Bur police uncovered more than 2000 cannabis plants at one of the four murder scenes and growth operations in two of the others."

BBM
Initially Dewine, I think, stated 2000 plants at three of the locations, then it went down to 1200, then it went down to two places had grow sites, then it was, there's three grows but they're on only two properties, and, finally, Reader says, it wasn't b/c there were a couple little grows. (all loosely quoted).

The Daily Mail isthe equivalent to a couple of American papers that come to mind. Sometimes the DM is like a blind hog, and will actually find an acorn, but they often sensationalize, and are unreliable with their facts.

 

[Renee110]

Open April - November. Even offer nude weddings. Personally, the thought never crossed our minds to get hitched in the buff. Can't imagine hanging that photo up in the den. lol No offense to any nudists out there, if that's your kicks, cool beans.

If I still had my 25 year old body I'll be strutting around like a peacock in the nude! Ah the things we take for granted before things start heading the other direction!

 

[rsd1200]

If I still had my 25 year old body I'll be strutting around like a peacock in the nude! Ah the things we take for granted before things start heading the other direction!

I kinda like my battle scars, and I've gotten used to the banged up parts that don't work so well now. I've got really good stories behind each of them! If I die tomorrow, it's been a heckuva ride! I just don't think any of the family would want to see our wedding portraits on the den wall in nothin' but our birthday suits. lol

 

[Renee110]

I kinda like my battle scars, and I've gotten used to the banged up parts that don't work so well now. I've got really good stories behind each of them! If I die tomorrow, it's been a heckuva ride! I just don't think any of the family would want to see our wedding portraits on the den wall in nothin' but our birthday suits. lol

Girl (I think) I ain't talking about battle scars or banged up parts..... I'm talking about the things that went north instead of south and the skin that was tight not loose.... wouldn't give up my battle scars.... was a horse trainer for 25 years..... love those scars.

 

[pearl]

I do not find it odd that the Wagners had to talk to some type of LE in each of the states they entered. I used to work at a trucking company in the 1980s. Semi tractors and trailers have to go through weigh stations on interstates of every state whose borders they cross. Not only are the trucks and trailers weighed but their paperwork is often checked and the insurance coverage. Some states are more thorough than others. CA was a particularly picky state. A truck was often denied entry if it was dirty and in need of a good wash. Truck washing places in states that border CA did a good business. Also, in states with a large agricultural economies, there are also agricultural inspection stations. These were usually located on secondary roads not interstates. The older roads that were used before the interstates, such as Hwy 301 in FL. All semi tractor trailers, pickups, RVs, and vehicles towing trailers have to go through these stations shortly after entering a state's borders. These places have state vehicles that will chase a vehicle down that does not stop when the station is open. Since the Wagners were driving 3 pickup trucks pulling covered wagons, they probably qualified for some kind of inspection in many states. It being 2017, I do think these weigh stations and other places like them are hooked up to some kind of system that keeps tabs on people who may be on some watch list.

 

[Dudly]

BBM
Initially Dewine, I think, stated 2000 plants at three of the locations, then it went down to 1200, then it went down to two places had grow sites, then it was, there's three grows but they're on only two properties, and, finally, Reader says, it wasn't b/c there were a couple little grows. (all loosely quoted).

The Daily Mail isthe equivalent to a couple of American papers that come to mind. Sometimes the DM is like a blind hog, and will actually find an acorn, but they often sensationalize, and are unreliable with their facts.

I thought it ended up down to 200 plants eventually but I could be wrong.

 

[rsd1200]

Girl (I think) I ain't talking about battle scars or banged up parts..... I'm talking about the things that went north instead of south and the skin that was tight not loose.... wouldn't give up my battle scars.... was a horse trainer for 25 years..... love those scars.

That made me laugh out loud!

I hear ya, I used to ride anything w/hair and four hooves! Love horses. Many a scar (and busted pride) from riding them too and wouldn't trade a one! Just have a pony to teach the grandkids on now.

 

[jk204]

JMO, but Daily Mail is known for checkbook journalism, aren't they? When I first read the story, I assumed that's why DM got the story instead of Chris Graves. Cincy Enquirer probably doesn't do that and the W's are probably looking to sell their version of the story for easy cash. Seems logical given their current situation.

Daily Mail gets stuff wrong, no doubt. It sounds like they got some of their information from the W's attorney. DM may get it wrong about the number of stops, but seems unlikely they would fabricate the part about them getting stopped by LE on the way. JMO, they may not have been stopped 12 times, but they were probably stopped more than once. The part about them being detained for several hours seems oddly specific, too. I'd be willing to bet internet dollars that part of the story is accurate, too.

JMO, I'm seeing invisible pressure from the Feds on BCI to get moving on this case. The recent increase in raids of local drug dealers, etc. seemed interesting and out of the norm for PCSO & BCI. They may not have had much reason to link these people to the murders, but it seems they probably knew for a long time they were involved in drug manufacturing and dealing. Small town, low population, I mean, come on, they have to have an idea of who's cooking the meth and selling other hard drugs locally. BCI & PCSO likely had enough probable cause months ago to arrest these folks and bring them into the Grand Jury to find out if they knew anything about the Rhoden murders. But they didn't until after the W's moved to AK.

They may have waited until they had more info from other GJ testimony, but it also may have been because of pressure from the Feds after BCI let the W's move to Alaska and after they "blocked" the feds from coming along on the raids of the W farms. Maybe the Feds are telling them "if you don't get moving on this investigation, we're going to do it for you." Maybe their professional courtesy is wearing thin.

JMO, just thinking out loud.

We don't know who the quotes are from. DM asked questions to the family, interviewed the lawyer and spoke with locals as well. We can't say for sure the 12 hours wait is from the lawyer or from a W.

I would not be surprised if DM paid a local who told DM what the W told them. DM is used to publish photos like these without consent.