Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #1

[Force Ten]

I spent half the afternoon looking at photos taken on most of these trails you cited. Most of those are not easy trails. Link:

http://www.stavislost.com/hikes/region/joshua-tree-mojave-desert

Yes some hikes are not for the unfit. Here's some pics in the field. There are thousands of crevices these people could be tucked away in within the valley.

 

[Force Ten]

One more.

 

[Seajay]

One more.

View attachment 122045

Some of these areas look like a decent place to get out of being in too hot or rainy weather.

It was interesting reading up on the Germans of Death Valley. One bad decision after the other brought them to where they ended up. How they trekked in that weather without water is beyond me. It sure shows the will to live though. So sad of an ending.

I just hope Rachel and Joseph have not suffered the same fate.

 

[shrimpsiumai]

When do you guys think vultures will start circling the sky if they were deceased?

 

[Elainera]

When do you guys think vultures will start circling the sky if they were deceased?

As I understand it they always circle the sky to look for food. They go by sight and smell. When they spot or smell an animal (or human) dying or deceased they immediately approach it.

Rachel and Joseph likely died three weeks ago, so the vultures' 'job' has long been finished.

Sorry for being graphic

 

[Seajay]

With everything we've gleaned from past cases where hikers were lost at JTNP, the longest someone was missing and was rescued alive was 6 days? That is the longest anyone has survived out there, correct?

It's now closing in on a month for Rachel and Joseph out there. During some of the hottest weather. At this point I'm just praying for closure for the family.

 

[GigTu]

I can't help but think of the Death Valley German tourists who weren't found for over 13 years. No one thought they would have been able to travel as many miles as they did. How wide of a radius have SAR searched so far?

This is a long but truly fascinating read by the person who found them. He also writes about searching for Bill Ewasco who disappeared in Joshua Tree back in 2010 and still hasn't been found even after 80+ unofficial searches.

http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/

That was fascinating reading. Thank you. Having read it though, more now than ever I believe these two could have traveled so much farther away than anyone anticipated.

I wonder if this missing couple stumbled on to any of the many JTNP entries and decided to go inspect one for themselves. Without meaning to (I think), he glamorizes extremely dangerous situations and makes them seem doable, even though he outright declares they are not. Feisty, hard-headed people might just decided to not listen to his wwarnings. But they should! http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/miscellaneous-adventures/

 

[Force Ten]

That was fascinating reading. Thank you. Having read it though, more now than ever I believe these two could have traveled so much farther away than anyone anticipated.

I wonder if this missing couple stumbled on to any of the many JTNP entries and decided to go inspect one for themselves. Without meaning to (I think), he glamorizes extremely dangerous situations and makes them seem doable, even though he outright declares they are not. Feisty, hard-headed people might just decided to not listen to his wwarnings. But they should! http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/miscellaneous-adventures/

If you're referring to mines, the only one in the vicinity is the Lost Horse mine and the opening I believe is barricaded. If there were other mines they would be notated on topographic maps.

 

[Force Ten]

With everything we've gleaned from past cases where hikers were lost at JTNP, the longest someone was missing and was rescued alive was 6 days? That is the longest anyone has survived out there, correct?

It's now closing in on a month for Rachel and Joseph out there. During some of the hottest weather. At this point I'm just praying for closure for the family.

Ed Rosenthal. Pretty sure that is the longest. His organs were starting to shut down by the time they located him.

 

[Cryptic]

There could be several reasons for this. One would be a rocky terrain. Obviously one can not leave a print on rocks unless tracking mud. .

Thanks for the up dates and thanks for your great efforts to recover the individuals.

As a side note, Border Patrol trackers usually use the "sign cutting method" and would have jumped to the next wash, sandy area, or dirt ravine (people leave sign when going up and down the sides of ravines) if they lost the track due to rocky terrain. In regards to rocky terrain, an expert direct tracker can usually find traceable sign in these areas via "sign cutting" on a closer scale to follow a track relatively directly unless the individual is deliberately trying to evade him.

All that aside, I think too many well meaning searchers may have obscured the tracks left by the couple. As some or many areas only allow for beach divots type tracks, identifying what tracks were the couple's, left by searchers, or earlier hikers would be difficult. In short, I wish search coordinators had called the Border Patrol earlier. They can assemble teams of expert trackers very quickly. Tono' Odham nation police also have a team of expert trackers as well.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

As I understand it they always circle the sky to look for food. They go by sight and smell. When they spot or smell an animal (or human) dying or deceased they immediately approach it.

Rachel and Joseph likely died three weeks ago, so the vultures' 'job' has long been finished.

Assuming they both died within a day or so of being lost, how "obvious" would it be that something was attracting vultures and other carrion birds? I mean, would another visitor to the park have been able to say "Funny you should mention that. We were there on 30 July and noticed half a dozen vultures circling over something on the ground in x direction from y trailhead"?

 

[thekarmabus]

Ed Rosenthal. Pretty sure that is the longest. His organs were starting to shut down by the time they located him.

Yes, Ed was the longest to survive. There have been others in other areas however lower temps and at least a bit of water. Without water the human organs shut down fairly quickly.
Good read on other survivors.

http://listverse.com/2014/01/16/10-astonishing-desert-survival-tales/


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[thekarmabus]

Thanks for the up dates and thanks for your great efforts to recover the individuals.

As a side note, Border Patrol trackers usually use the "sign cutting method" and would have jumped to the next wash, sandy area, or dirt ravine (people leave sign when going up and down the sides of ravines) if they lost the track due to rocky terrain. In regards to rocky terrain, an expert direct tracker can usually find traceable sign in these areas via "sign cutting" on a closer scale to follow a track relatively directly unless the individual is deliberately trying to evade him.

All that aside, I think too many well meaning searchers may have obscured the tracks left by the couple. As some or many areas only allow for beach divots type tracks, identifying what tracks were the couple's, left by searchers, or earlier hikers would be difficult. In short, I wish search coordinators had called the Border Patrol earlier. They can assemble teams of expert trackers very quickly. Tono' Odham nation police also have a team of expert trackers as well.

This may be something that could be brought to JTNP attention for future searches. Very true, Tono' Odham know the land. They were a huge help when I was working in the Sonoran Desert.


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[Cryptic]

This may be something that could be brought to JTNP attention for future searches. Very true, Tono' Odham know the land. They were a huge help when I was working in the Sonoran Desert.

Out of curiosity, did the Tono' Odham trackers track directly, or did they use the sign cutting technique, or maybe a combination? I have also read that the Navajo have a team of expert trackers as well. They were used against the right wing anarchists who went on a rampage killing a police officer. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jun/10/news/adna-fugitive10

The group had spent a lot of time honing out door skills and were very difficult to track. The Navajo police got close enough to smell them in a canyon at night, but were then pulled back to avoid a close range gun battle.

In regards to bringing the existence of ready teams of expert trackers to JTNP officials, I think it is a great idea.

Maybe this Board should encourage the National Parks system to contact the The Border Patrol, Tono 'Odham, Navajo and others to work out a plan before the next people get lost in deadly terrain / heat? I would participate in writing a letter(s). Perhaps you or others would be interested as well?

Ideally, if certain criteria are met, National Park officials request the help of an expert tracking team from pre selected and pre contacted agencies. The agencies have agreed in advance to quickly provide a team when needed. Maybe, the agencies could rotate as to who will respond first? Meanwhile, local park officials (JTNP in this case) already have a list of "dos and donts" regarding how to keep tracks to a minimum, yet also lead effective searches. It could save lives.

 

[Normancita]

I think they're in Mexico...


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[Suglo]

I think they're in Mexico...


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Can you expound on why you think they are in Mexico? I think they're under a bush or in a crevasse myself but am interested to hear why someone thinks they would stage their disappearance and go to Mexico?

 

[Force Ten]

Can you expound on why you think they are in Mexico? I think they're under a bush or in a crevasse myself but am interested to hear why someone thinks they would stage their disappearance and go to Mexico?

I agree, makes zero sense.


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[GigTu]

I think they're in Mexico...

Can you expound on why you think they are in Mexico? I think they're under a bush or in a crevasse myself but am interested to hear why someone thinks they would stage their disappearance and go to Mexico?

Mexico is too far. No way in that heat.

Also, would it necessarily be a staged disappearance if someone got lost and ended up in Mexico? A couple really did recently get lost and wound up in or very near Mexico. If they didn't cross the border, they easily could have, undetected, and unknowing they had done so. It was a special set of circumstances that put humans there the day they ended up there, and a miracle they were found alive.

 

[GigTu]

The link to those SAR stories is an incredible find. Thanks again. I learned a few valuable things about how to survive being lost (in general) as I read:

1) After 2-3 days, if you don't consume water your organs start to fail, so conserve water, drink pee, and find water in dense brush areas when you can.

2) It seems like most watersheds run N/S, but most populated areas are faster reached W/E. So, always head W/E when you can using the sun's location as a compass/guide, even if the N/S route seems easier to travel.

3) If lost, move around at dawn/dusk and in moonlight if possible, and take shade during the hottest part of the day.

4) Someone will come look for you if you don't show up when you are supposed to and IF someone knows where you went. So always share your itinerary - just in case.

5) STOP walking and wait for help if someone knows where you are hiking.

6) Wile hiking around, always leave behind some sort of marking of where you have been. Make a rock cairn (stack rocks), break a branch, write words and arrows in the dirt, all or any of those. That way, if you are walking in circles you will know right away. Or if you are lost, it will help trackers find you. And marking your path with these ways does not harm the environment.
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[Gardener1850]

[h=1]Joshua Tree missing couple: Father looks for son in mountain lion territory[/h]

Hopes remain strong that two friends from Westminster who went missing nearly four weeks ago in the Joshua Tree National Park Area will be found as the search continues.

“We will just keep searching; keep hoping there is a miracle,” said Gilbert Orbeso, father of Joseph Orbeso who disappeared last month along with his friend, Rachel Nguyen.

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news...al-park-dad-holds-out-hope-miracle/591807001/