Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #1

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MzOpinion8d said:
Joshua Tree isn't really a hotbed of criminal activities, though. Criminals don't like heat and dehydration any more than other people do.
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I'm not suggesting it's a hotbed of criminal activity. Just that a quiet place in the very early morning might be somewhere that criminals might use for whatever purposes. Maybe something happens there once every few months and this time two innocent visitors were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The longer these two are missing, and the more searches that fail to find them, the more we should at least be open to the possibility that they are not in the park.
 
[h=1]Families of missing hikers make announcement[/h]
"If Joseph and Rachel can see or hear this message, we want them to know, we love them very much. If Joseph and Rachel are held against their will and are captive in any way, we please ask you to release them," said Gilbert Orbeso, Joseph Orbeso's father.
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"Yes, we are very hopeful that Joseph and Rachel have left the park on their own accord and are still alive outside the park. That is why we're here. Our families are asking and reaching out to the public for help," Orbeso said.
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There is video of Joseph's father speaking at the link. He also pleads that if anyone is holding them against their will to release them.
http://www.kesq.com/news/reward-announced-for-any-info-on-missing-hikers/612750357
 
GigTu said:
This is a wierd announcement. Wishful thinking? Or do they know more than they are telling?...
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JMO, I think it is wishful thinking. I can't blame them for wanting to hold onto hope their loved ones are alive.

Also in that article:
David Smith is a park ranger at Joshua Tree National Park. He says Maze Loop is a popular trail and can become a confusing one.

"The Maze Loop is called the Maze Loop because it is like a maze. There are inviting side canyons to explore. As you're hiking there are boulder formations that you can go through while you're inside the maze," Smith said.
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Another Search and Rescuer, Dave Pylman is in the video saying (Paraphrasing) that the area they are searching is 80% of the typical area* and it will never get searched thoroughly because there are too many cracks and crevices they could be in.

*I'm not really sure what he means by the typical 80% comment

Anyway, IMO, it seems like the professional searchers think they most likely are still in the park.
 
MelmothTheLost said:
I'm not suggesting it's a hotbed of criminal activity. Just that a quiet place in the very early morning might be somewhere that criminals might use for whatever purposes. Maybe something happens there once every few months and this time two innocent visitors were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The longer these two are missing, and the more searches that fail to find them, the more we should at least be open to the possibility that they are not in the park.
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I'd say the possibility is less than a one percent chance they're not in the park.

Criminals would have killed them and left them where they lay. They aren't going to take the time to move and hide dead bodies, and if they did, they'd have taken the car away from the scene as well.

They went hiking in a vast space difficult terrain, in the hottest part of the summer. They weren't properly equipped to be in the park long, and exposure got them.
 
Gardener1850 said:
JMO, I think it is wishful thinking. I can't blame them for wanting to hold onto hope their loved ones are alive.

Also in that article:

Another Search and Rescuer, Dave Pylman is in the video saying (Paraphrasing) that the area they are searching is 80% of the typical area* and it will never get searched thoroughly because there are too many cracks and crevices they could be in.

*I'm not really sure what he means by the typical 80% comment

Anyway, IMO, it seems like the professional searchers think they most likely are still in the park.
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It sounds to me like he means they're searching the typical area, but 20% of that area is not searchable.
 
MzOpinion8d said:
I'd say the possibility is less than a one percent chance they're not in the park.

Criminals would have killed them and left them where they lay. They aren't going to take the time to move and hide dead bodies, and if they did, they'd have taken the car away from the scene as well.

They went hiking in a vast space difficult terrain, in the hottest part of the summer. They weren't properly equipped to be in the park long, and exposure got them.
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I agree with you. However if family has some concern I would ask why are they considering the idea. Instead of a reward maybe use the money for a private investigator . Start with texts and calls, the trip he made two weeks earlier there with his friend, the activities from the night before they went hiking etc...no stone left unturned approach.


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MzOpinion8d said:
It sounds to me like he means they're searching the typical area, but 20% of that area is not searchable.
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My impression of the statement is 80 percent of the search has been focused on the Maze Loop area, 20 percent elsewhere.
 
thekarmabus said:
I agree with you. However if family has some concern I would ask why are they considering the idea. Instead of a reward maybe use the money for a private investigator . Start with texts and calls, the trip he made two weeks earlier there with his friend, the activities from the night before they went hiking etc...no stone left unturned approach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I brought up the idea of the trip with the friend and it's potential relation to something criminal and it was dismissed rather quickly earlier in this thread... all angles should be pursued. IT wouldn't be unheard of if they weren't in the park although extremely unlikely. If something criminal happened you would think they would've left them in the park but who knows?
 
JetsFan24 said:
I brought up the idea of the trip with the friend and it's potential relation to something criminal and it was dismissed rather quickly earlier in this thread... all angles should be pursued. IT wouldn't be unheard of if they weren't in the park although extremely unlikely. If something criminal happened you would think they would've left them in the park but who knows?
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It's not out of the realm of possibilities but there are a few things that I can't look past. One is the ping that happened late in the day (4 PM). While it doesn't necessarily put them in the park, it places at least Orbeso's phone in the 10 mile radius of the tower near the park. The second thing is the tracks. I don't believe they would have stated they were there's unless they could conclusively determine it was their's. Also, they were located pretty deep in the canyon far off the trail. It would probably take about 3 hours to get to that point, maybe a little less. You're not going to encounter a random abductor out there. Curiously though, they stated the tracks were heading north into the canyon, as not coming out of. So because of this, and the town (community?) of Panoramic Heights being so close to those tracks (about a mile give or take), they could have run into some seedy characters there while seeking help.

As far as inside the park, major crimes or abductions are extremely rare. The rangers are more like cops than people realize and cruise around through the campgrounds and other areas very regularly. I don't think people are totally dismissing it, just more of sticking to Occam's Razor.
 
Force Ten said:
It's not out of the realm of possibilities but there are a few things that I can't look past. One is the ping that happened late in the day (4 PM). While it doesn't necessarily put them in the park, it places at least Orbeso's phone in the 10 mile radius of the tower near the park. The second thing is the tracks. I don't believe they would have stated they were there's unless they could conclusively determine it was their's. Also, they were located pretty deep in the canyon far off the trail. It would probably take about 3 hours to get to that point, maybe a little less. You're not going to encounter a random abductor out there. Curiously though, they stated the tracks were heading north into the canyon, as not coming out of. So because of this, and the town (community?) of Panoramic Heights being so close to those tracks (about a mile give or take), they could have run into some seedy characters there while seeking help.

As far as inside the park, major crimes or abductions are extremely rare. The rangers are more like cops than people realize and cruise around through the campgrounds and other areas very regularly. I don't think people are totally dismissing it, just more of sticking to Occam's Razor.
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There are not very many out in this area but the Laura Ann Bradbury case has to be the strangest one, here's something from Laura's father's book. http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=1275&p=13313#p13313 And here's another this one could be military related. http://cms.sbcounty.gov/Portals/34/HomicideColdCase/1981/Sandra_Rhodes.pdf
 
At about 3-4 weeks after the person(s) disappeared, if there are no leads, it seems like every case begins to follow the same cycle of theorizing. Sometimes the theories are outlandish, sometimes they end up being realistic.

<imo> In a place where survival is dependent on great amounts of water and shelter from the environment. the least likely scenario is a ne'er-do-weller waiting out in the dangerous desert hoping a hiker will stumble upon them. It's possible sure, but it seems quite unlikely. Perhaps they did make it to a populated area and met with harm at that point. Again though, it seems unlikely. </jmo>

I really wish they had already been found, but it appears as though it may not be the case until milder temperatures are here. Even then, a random group of hikers will likely be the ones to discover them, which could be years from now.
 
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