NY - Rita Tangredi, 31, and Colleen McNamee, 20, murdered, 1993-94, John Biltroff *GUILTY* - #2

[Abcdefgh]

if we are contemplating Bittrolff for the unidentified male murders ...

... It's bothering me right now that I can't remember the cases, but I believe there were a couple of recent examples of serial killers who specifically befriended victims who didn't have family ties or communities looking out for them. (Heartbreaking, really).

... I can't help but think of this case of a (never charged) serial killer cop given nobody seems to have reported the men missing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disap...arance_of_Terrance_Williams_and_Felipe_Santos

...

It seems like even among hookers, the victims in these cases are selected for the fact they won't be missed. Unidentified male victims probably have more to do with the proximity to New Jersey than to lisk.

Anyway, I think I have it figured out. Here are some links for anybody with too much spare time'

I giot the date wrong on when Loeb was arrested https://patch.com/new-york/commack/crimes-nearby-two-men-arrested-on-grand-larceny-charges

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/783421/1989-state-commission-of-investigation-suffolk.pdf

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theerant/viewtopic.php?p=934667

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the...bery-and-carjacking-kidnappin-t74850-s40.html

http://www.raymondzuppaforda.org/depravity.html

Dec 18 2012 https://patch.com/new-york/smithtown/week-in-review-stolen-laptops-gps-units-and-more

June 17 2013 http://pix11.com/2013/06/17/behavio...-felony-raises-more-questions-than-the-crime/ This was the article that started everything. After this the feds, Newsday, etc were playing catch up.

Somebody realizes it's time for pre emptive damage control

June 25 2013 http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...suffolk-chief-of-police-james-burke-1.5565935 Article put in Newsday to set the stage

July 17 2013 http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...bed-theft-of-police-official-s-gear-1.5714387 More pre emptive positioning to prepare for any eventualities.

July 20 2013 http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...-s-home-okd-before-alleged-break-in-1.5734481

Strangely January 5 2013 ??? http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Investigation-of-Suffolk-County-Police-Chief The name of the thread is "Federal Investigation of Suffolk County Police Chief" but the first post is

Dum, dum, dumpty dum.........U guys been reading the latest stories about the NYPD Cannibal Cop? The FBI just arrested a 'co-conspirator' in the case. The new guy 'conspired' to pay the cop $5,000.00 to kidnap someone for his dining pleasure. I guess he got sidetracked because he was fighting eviction. He had 5K for 'dinner' but couldn't pay his rent.

Suffolk county has a lot of powerful interests, political, financial etc that get some benefit from owning a police force.

In this case the start of publicity about Burke forced the fbi to pretend they were going to investigate corruption. They obey orders and considering the interests in that area there will never be a credible investigation of police or corruption, unless those power groups that use that find a better tool.

-

It's kind of a shame that some people think it is okay to sacrifice some 'small' people for the sake of 'bigger' people, but that's the way it is. Lisk 1, lisk 2 are almost certainly cops and any cop in that region who has some dark tendencies knows that is the place to work, as long as you play the game.

There is no fbi investigation. there is no investigation of corruption. The police officers involved in most of the killings of prostitutes have nothing to worry about. They are covered.

 

[Hotpotato]

It's been awhile but marble said my thoughts exactly that IF the manorville john does we're connected to the rest (a big if imo) I was thinking undocumented laborer. If it were someone up here sending money to their family with no connections, there'd be no missing person report.

Another thought- at least at one point it seemed to be pretty widely accepted lisk could be the father to baby doe.... surely they've cross checked JB's DNA by now.

If hes being seriously looked at as lisk a few other things that have been brought up through various posts/topics over the years:

Melissa barthelemy's connected to tangredi's daughter (many believe she was stalked, perhaps finding her through his interest in his victims)

If we are really stretching and for funsies let's say he could be tied to AC4. (Anyone have that mugshot handy?). Anyway, I recall some tie, however much of a stretch it was to Kim raffo? Lived close growing up? She had also been back and forth from LI to AC

I know there's more, my brain just isn't functioning right.

But here's one thing.... they say he was SO knowledgeable about LE and having a tail they couldn't get any DNA from him whatsoever for however long, yet he leaves his DNA on a drink, handing it to LE on a silver platter after being accused of two murdere because HIS DNA was found in them? That makes no sense.

 

[Abcdefgh]

....

But here's one thing.... they say he was SO knowledgeable about LE and having a tail they couldn't get any DNA from him whatsoever for however long, yet he leaves his DNA on a drink, handing it to LE on a silver platter after being accused of two murdere because HIS DNA was found in them? That makes no sense.

The one thing that seems kind of strange. When people read the account police give of surveilling bittrolff, are there really some people who cannot tell that the police are lying? When I read that dramatic account, and the interview with Leser, etc, I wonder if there are really people who believe the police story.

One point I wanted to edit to add to my previous post but the edit time passed. The similarity with other cases in other states is too striking. I remember the supposed 'fbi investigation into corruption' in Alaska. I remember a guy saying that two headless armless torsos that washed up were girls that partied with the main fbi informant in those cases.

There are enough of these cases all around that it kind of looks like a bunch of fbi guys using 'law enforcement' as an excuse to mutilate bodies.

This time I'll delete the bookmark to this page so if I'm tempted to post more it will be too much work to find the page.

 

[WesternArtist]

I'm sorry to be rude, not trying to offend.

I've gone through some of the early pages, searched a bit more on Google, and here is what I find.

It looks like somebody is trying to attach Bittrolff to the "wayward girls' home" theme of Dr Hackett, perhaps hoping people will confuse the one with the other and transfer onto Bittrolff.

Is there any proof that Bittrolff ran or was involved in or had any connection whatsoever to anything like that? Or is it just fables and gossip that somebody is planting to make him appear guilty?

I notice somebody thinks he has some biological deformity, I forget maybe curled ears or something that is associated with serial killers? I don't even know how to respond to something so stupid.

So I ask again, and I'm not trying to offend, Is there any evidence whatsoever, of any kind aside from gossip and utter nonsense, that connects Bittrolff to any crime other than a dwi and a barfight, aside from the dna evidence that appears to have been fabricated?

Please don't say "look on this thread, search in this place". Is there any evidence?

You specifically, "top rated sleuth", refer to the wayward home. Can you provide some proof?

I have sleuthed Vision Ministries Open Arms http://www.rjdwebdesign.com/visionministries/mission.html https://appext20.dos.ny.gov/corp_pu...=%&p_search_type=BEGINS&p_srch_results_page=0 quite a bit. The initial connection, although it certainly wasn't me who found it, was that the phone number listed for this entity hits for Bittrolff in a particular people search site (which one I don't remember now). Some speculated that this was because his wife was perhaps the accountant for the ministry and listed her own number when filing paperwork for it.

Here's where the connection and what this ministry actually is or isn't becomes possibly more compelling. PL is the woman who runs the "ministry" (if it ever existed). 3 of her kids/relatives are friends with Bittrolff's brothers/cousins. Now, if you delete the ending of the URL for the ministry site you will see it comes to this odd Christian Singles page http://www.rjdwebdesign.com/singles/. Using the wayback machine you can see that Christian Singles Dinner & Dance Cruises were once hosted here. Maureen went missing on July 9, 2007. There was a Dinner & Dance Cruise on July 14th. I checked for a correlation between these cruises and the dates the other victims went missing without finding a parallel (they appear to have discontinued these events). You will see PL's contact info come up for the First Sundays Prayer and Healing Service https://web.archive.org/web/2008121...ign.com:80/singles/activities-ny.php#LI_dated There you will see her email address, which is also here discussing Vision Ministries in the comments http://www.topix.com/forum/city/hampton-bays-ny/T9J1UA7RC9BI65QJQ And here again you will see Vision Ministries advertising their Benefit Dinner back at the Christian Singles site https://web.archive.org/web/2010072...ign.com:80/singles/activities-ny.php#LI_dated

I fully wanted this to be the connection. For personal reasons this sort of stuff gives me a bad taste in my mouth and I really hoped to find more. It looks to me like Vision Ministries Open Arms was either something that never got past the aspirational phase or was all along merely a ploy to seek donations, tax deductions, etc. The whole thing could be a red herring or perhaps the Christian Singles Dinner & Dance Cruises were actually sex/killing parties :sheesh:

 

[deedee21]

if we are contemplating Bittrolff for the unidentified male murders (and why not, it's possible that whoever killed the women enjoyed the act of killing as much or even more than any sexual gratification it gave him) then here's a potential scenario:

Lots of undocumented workers hang out at known corners/building supply stores hoping to be picked up as day labor.

Obviously I'm just spitballing a way to make the male victims fit for JB, but what if their killer picked each of them up individually as construction/labor helpers. Over the course of a day or two of work conversation the killer may have been able to ascertain that their potential victims didn't have close family or community tied to the area that would report them missing. It's bothering me right now that I can't remember the cases, but I believe there were a couple of recent examples of serial killers who specifically befriended victims who didn't have family ties or communities looking out for them. (Heartbreaking, really).

Then again, although I don't agree with Abcdefgh that it's likely Bittrolff was framed, I'm also not convinced there aren't at least two other serial killers at work in addition to any more victims that turn out to be JB's. I can't help but think of this case of a (never charged) serial killer cop given nobody seems to have reported the men missing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disap...arance_of_Terrance_Williams_and_Felipe_Santos

edited to add- this is off-topic, but that cop is on facebook and follows a page that just posts gopro video footage of soldiers killing people . WTF. edited again_ and he is friends with someone who proudly tortures and kills animals. GOOD LORD this is a miscarriage of justice (sorry for the derail it won't happen again)

People like this should be put into the belly of a plane and dropped into the cold icy Atlantic Ocean.

 

[deedee21]

Gacy use to kill guys who applied for jobs for his contracting company.

There is a lot of corruption in suffolk county police so a frame job would not surprise me. I dont trust them and they want nothing more than to put this case to bed so their motive can be politics or cover up. Look what happened to hurricane carter in jersey.

If bittrolf is lisk, my profile about the killer was not spot on and i accept that i could be wrong but i do see someone hiding behind him. I still think there's a few of them working together and bittrolf could be one of them. Or, maybe there are two separate issues going on which i never thought to be so.

I think tina foglia was lisks first kill and that would put bittrolf at 15 or 16 years old. Your thoughts?




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Remember the two girls that disappeared in the North East? The sketch of the stranger in town looks exactly like Bittrolff when he was in his twenties. It looks like he sat for the artist.
Its in one of the upthreads.

 

[maddalena1]

Remember the two girls that disappeared in the North East? The sketch of the stranger in town looks exactly like Bittrolff when he was in his twenties. It looks like he sat for the artist.
Its in one of the upthreads.

Yep i looked at that sketch many times.

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[maddalena1]

I have sleuthed Vision Ministries Open Arms http://www.rjdwebdesign.com/visionministries/mission.html https://appext20.dos.ny.gov/corp_pu...=%&p_search_type=BEGINS&p_srch_results_page=0 quite a bit. The initial connection, although it certainly wasn't me who found it, was that the phone number listed for this entity hits for Bittrolff in a particular people search site (which one I don't remember now). Some speculated that this was because his wife was perhaps the accountant for the ministry and listed her own number when filing paperwork for it.

Here's where the connection and what this ministry actually is or isn't becomes possibly more compelling. PL is the woman who runs the "ministry" (if it ever existed). 3 of her kids/relatives are friends with Bittrolff's brothers/cousins. Now, if you delete the ending of the URL for the ministry site you will see it comes to this odd Christian Singles page http://www.rjdwebdesign.com/singles/. Using the wayback machine you can see that Christian Singles Dinner & Dance Cruises were once hosted here. Maureen went missing on July 9, 2007. There was a Dinner & Dance Cruise on July 14th. I checked for a correlation between these cruises and the dates the other victims went missing without finding a parallel (they appear to have discontinued these events). You will see PL's contact info come up for the First Sundays Prayer and Healing Service https://web.archive.org/web/2008121...ign.com:80/singles/activities-ny.php#LI_dated There you will see her email address, which is also here discussing Vision Ministries in the comments http://www.topix.com/forum/city/hampton-bays-ny/T9J1UA7RC9BI65QJQ And here again you will see Vision Ministries advertising their Benefit Dinner back at the Christian Singles site https://web.archive.org/web/2010072...ign.com:80/singles/activities-ny.php#LI_dated

I fully wanted this to be the connection. For personal reasons this sort of stuff gives me a bad taste in my mouth and I really hoped to find more. It looks to me like Vision Ministries Open Arms was either something that never got past the aspirational phase or was all along merely a ploy to seek donations, tax deductions, etc. The whole thing could be a red herring or perhaps the Christian Singles Dinner & Dance Cruises were actually sex/killing parties :sheesh:

It reminds me of the home for wayward girls statement made to mari from a phone in hacketts house. This number could have been spoofed or someone else used hacketts phone. I believe bittrolf is a piece of the puzzle but maybe not all of it. Thanks for taking the time to sleuth this.

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[Scorpio girl]

It reminds me of the home for wayward girls statement made to mari from a phone in hacketts house. This number could have been spoofed or someone else used hacketts phone. I believe bittrolf is a piece of the puzzle but maybe not all of it. Thanks for taking the time to sleuth this.

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There was NO call to Mari from a phone in Hackett's house regarding a home for wayward girls.
This number WAS NOT spoofed and NO ONE else used Hackett's phone. Hackett called Mari
from his cell phone, outside because he had just met Alex, and H called M from the road.

There WAS a call from Hackett to Mari on May 3. It was at the behest of Alex, who was standing
next to Hackett. There was NO conversation of any wayward girls. EVER.

Mari knew Shannan was missing within hours of Shannan missing. Alex called Pak to ask Pak
where Shannan was. Alex then called Sherre to say Shannan was missing LONG before the
call from Hackett to Mari.

Those of you that read Kolker's book have read a lot of misinformation regarding the
Alex and Pak situation and the calls to Mari. There is a boatload of information that has
never been made public, but this crap about a wayward girls B.S. has to stop.

 

[maddalena1]

There was NO call to Mari from a phone in Hackett's house regarding a home for wayward girls.
This number could have been spoofed or someone else used Hackett's phone.

There WAS a call from Hackett to Mari on May 3. It was at the behest of Alex, who was standing
next to Hackett. There was NO conversation of any wayward girls. EVER.

Mari knew Shannan was missing within hours of Shannan missing. Alex called Pak to ask Pak
where Shannan was. Alex then called Sherre to say Shannan was missing LONG before the
call from Hackett to Mari.

Thats what im saying.

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[maddalena1]

Okay so heres a big question: how computer literate is bittrolf? Im thinking not so much. Lisk is computer literate.

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[deedee21]

Im not going to back read
..as this is years n years..

But one simple observation and quick slueth. ..... both of his victims were picked up within 5 minutes and second location 8 minutes from the Holiday Inn in Hauppauge. ..

Coincidence?

It could be. Hard to tell. The Hotel attracks alot of prostitutes and johns. The killer took advantage of that.

 

[Scorpio girl]

Thats what im saying.

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You were?
thank you

FINALLY someone sees the truth.

yes, H called M.
NO there was NEVER any witnesses to M's claims about a wayward girl B.S.

M was a very very smart woman, but there is NO mention of H in the New Jersey
police report, nor the SCPD police report on Shannan. ONLY MENTIONS BREWER.

 

[The Equalizer]

If this case was profiled on the TV show Forensic Files, it would end with the jury needing about 30 minutes to convict. Instead because of the corrupt nature of the SCPD the jury was deadlocked three times. The defendant was almost aquitted. The defense attorney should have questioned the CO of Homicide.
Did you ever investigate a homicide before? No never
So the 1st homicide you were involved in investigating ended with the evidence being destroyed? Correct
You had the vehicle brought to a private garage not a secure police facility is that correct? Yes
How many other times are you aware that a suspect in a serial murders vehicle was not brought to the Police garage? None
Isn't the person whose vehicle you investigated the son of the Chief of Detectives? Yes
No further questions.

 

[marble]

yeah, I agree. I came to the conclusion that it's far more likely than not that Bittrolff is responsible for the two murders he's been convicted of- but if I'd been on that jury? Coming to that conclusion after hearing that two different cops were among a multitude of people investigated as suspects, and with all of the ways in which it could appear as though the department had no interest in properly investigating/solving the case, I'd have had a difficult time immediately coming up with a guilty verdict too.

 

[Abcdefgh]

A few last points then I hope I drop this.

http://nytimes.com/2009/08/18/science/18dna.html

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/08/fabricating_dna.html

The police faked the dna.

1) Somebody says on tv the jury would need 30 minutes to convict. But what evidence would they use? There is only one piece of evidence and it looks overwhelmingly bogus.

2) regarding cops who are suspects, the vast majority of police accused of rape in most police departments are never accused publically. Suffolk is no different. It should set off alarm bells that the few "suspect cops" in this case were officers who had already been identified publically as either rapists or similar. If that aspect of the investigation were credible it would have focused on cops who had those accusations but either were not disciplined, or, if the offenses were serious, retired quietly.

If it were a minor crime then a person could be entertained by the craft of the police who framed Bittrolff and many others. In this case though the crime is pretty extreme. When you stop the wrong person in a crime like that it means you did not stop the right person. Worth pointing out that this kind of crime seems to be more common in places where police have liberty to commit crimes.

 

[WesternArtist]

I'm sorry to be rude, not trying to offend.

I've gone through some of the early pages, searched a bit more on Google, and here is what I find.

It looks like somebody is trying to attach Bittrolff to the "wayward girls' home" theme of Dr Hackett, perhaps hoping people will confuse the one with the other and transfer onto Bittrolff.

Is there any proof that Bittrolff ran or was involved in or had any connection whatsoever to anything like that? Or is it just fables and gossip that somebody is planting to make him appear guilty?

I notice somebody thinks he has some biological deformity, I forget maybe curled ears or something that is associated with serial killers? I don't even know how to respond to something so stupid.

So I ask again, and I'm not trying to offend, Is there any evidence whatsoever, of any kind aside from gossip and utter nonsense, that connects Bittrolff to any crime other than a dwi and a barfight, aside from the dna evidence that appears to have been fabricated?

Please don't say "look on this thread, search in this place". Is there any evidence?

You specifically, "top rated sleuth", refer to the wayward home. Can you provide some proof?

BBM -Not sure who thought that or where but the concept of physical deformities correlating to criminality is from 19th century thought. afaik it's okay to post pages from a book so if anyone is curious about this here ya go: [FONT=&amp]Bernheimer, Charles, et al. [/FONT]Decadent subjects: the idea of decadence in art, literature, philosophy, and culture of the fin de siècle in Europe. Baltimore, The Johns Hopkins University Press, 2002.

 

[Scorpio girl]

People have talked about Bittrolff and the girls and this and that

He was a carpenter
but was he self employed?
did he work with his brother? family business?
who did he work for?

 

[maddalena1]

I would like a bio on bittrolf

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[maddalena1]

JJ slate portended bittrolf to be lisk shortly after his arrest back in 2014.

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