TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #2

[trio1974]

What does "Also a Tommy" mean. Your were talking about Rachel's husband at the time of her disappearance and then the other Tommy. Just trying to figure out how this has anything to do with the missing trio.

 

[Deleted member 165916]

I should have shared this a long time ago. There is a photo floating around forums and podcasts that is alleged to be Rachel 4 or so years after her disappearance. It isn't. It is part of a gallery of 100 pics police discovered in a storage locker in Seattle after arresting California serial killer: Rodney Alcala. He has been absolutely ruled out as a potential suspect. There is a resemblance to the "missing poster" image of Rachel. Rachel's school picture from the 1975 Southwest High School yearbook was taken the first week of October 1974. (above) It more resembles how she looked the day she disappeared. This is not Rachel. (below)

 

[thebigcookie]

I should have shared this a long time ago. There is a photo floating around forums and podcasts that is alleged to be Rachel 4 or so years after her disappearance. It isn't. It is part of a gallery of 100 pics police discovered in a storage locker in Seattle after arresting California serial killer: Rodney Alcala. He has been absolutely ruled out as a potential suspect. There is a resemblance to the "missing poster" image of Rachel. Rachel's school picture from the 1975 Southwest High School yearbook was taken the first week of October 1974. (above) It more resembles how she looked the day she disappeared. This is not Rachel. (below)

I’ve seen that photo several different places. I’ve never been able to make up my mind on if it’s Rachel or not. But what I want to know is if it’s not Rachel, then who is it? That picture looks pretty disturbing.

 

[Deleted member 165916]

LE in California have published a gallery 100 pics from Alcala's stash of over 1,000 photographs in an attempt to identify other victims. He wasn't here on 12/23/74. One of many reasons that family and police agree that this is NOT Rachel. Whoever she is - she looks like a victim. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...9.html&usg=AFQjCNGZDNZiT9R3Xx-DdqXygTDrDPoR1A

 

[Deleted member 165916]

Were Tommys whereabouts accounted for?

Yes and no. He owned a transmission shop and was there all day (he says.) He did show up for his weekly bowling league night at the Wedgwood bowl. He was reached there by phone at 8:30. He showed up at the mall parking lot driven by Debra in her car - around 11pm. What happened to his personal vehicle? It was not seen again. The '98 Olds was his mother's car. He inherited it, and the house when his parents passed away in April (mom) and August (dad) 1973. The Olds was there at the mall all night. Renee's dad, and his best friend (who lived next door to the Arnolds' on 6th Avenue) parked up the hill and stayed up all night watching the car. Sometime Tues. TT drove the car from the mall, and every day after that. What happened to his car? He is the "someone they trusted." He made phone calls from "work", to family members. When the police asked Rachel's mother if TT was at the shop all day, she replied "Yes" because she believed it. When the police asked "How do you know?" She told a white lie. "Because, I was there!" She wasn't. Rachel's dad worked at TT's shop, but everyone knows he had chemo that morning and she was home all day taking care of him. SO. According to his statement, he got up and went to work. Left a "little early" and went bowling. Where is the car he drove to work? What about any car he had access to at his shop? He is the lone suspect. I think a car went missing that day. And it's in 60 ft of water. We found 3 cars in the first 40 minutes exactly where I told police to look. Exactly. They are all 2-door sedans. Visibility is about 3" down there, so we need to go back and get Vin#'s, do a proper records search. If any of those cars are connected to him, wasn't reported stolen, records don't show a title transfer, he's going have a hard time explaining it. And a harder time explaining why he hid the fact of another vehicle registered to him from police. That crime scene is where no one can get to it, so I'm being patient. It has to be processed by law enforcement to be evidence. One scintilla of evidence that Julie or Renee were ever in that car (this would be the only time) - and there will be alot of evidence; he's done. Tommy's whereabouts are unaccounted for from 8am-6pm.

 

[Schipperke]

Hope this is being investigated.

 

[Deleted member 165916]

Hope this is being investigated.

It's records. Several records, and a little data analysis. They are probably in the case file. If I have to drive back to Austin and do a hand search through micro-fiche, and film; I will. No one in LE will connect the dots from their air-conditioned cubicle. I have squished them together for the last time. There's a new detective (again.) He knows how to reach me and has all my notes and maps. I'm done with FWPD. Currently working on a "work around."

 

[foureyes]

9/8/17

Authorities stated that they are actively looking at five suspects and also utilizing DNA testing in their investigation. They have some DNA results but have not stated what they are to the public or media.

Their latest statement regarding this case is that they now believe the girls left the mall with an individual that they trusted and were harmed afterwards.
The Missing Trio of Ft. Worth – Three girls disappear from a Ft. Worth mall in 1974 – Missing Persons of America

Rusty Arnold, Rachel’s brother mention serial killer James M. DeBardeleben lived close to where the girls went missing on Blog talk Radio

 

[Deleted member 165916]

9/8/17

Authorities stated that they are actively looking at five suspects and also utilizing DNA testing in their investigation. They have some DNA results but have not stated what they are to the public or media.

Their latest statement regarding this case is that they now believe the girls left the mall with an individual that they trusted and were harmed afterwards.
The Missing Trio of Ft. Worth – Three girls disappear from a Ft. Worth mall in 1974 – Missing Persons of America

Rusty Arnold, Rachel’s brother mention serial killer James M. DeBardeleben lived close to where the girls went missing on Blog talk Radio

With all due respect; authorities are not actively looking at 5 suspects - simply not true. The DNA is from the letter. It might prove that someone lied. So?

The "lastest statement" you refer to was published in the Star-Telegram on December 26, 1974. That is the LE position. Pretty sure they are correct.

DeBardeleben has been ruled out; based on a conversation I had with a detective who was willing to answer yes and no questions in 2009.

 

[Philigumbo]

With all due respect; authorities are not actively looking at 5 suspects - simply not true. The DNA is from the letter. It might prove that someone lied. So?

The "lastest statement" you refer to was published in the Star-Telegram on December 26, 1974. That is the LE position. Pretty sure they are correct.

DeBardeleben has been ruled out; based on a conversation I had with a detective who was willing to answer yes and no questions in 2009.

Thank you for coming back! Do you believe this someone acted alone?? TIA. I've always thought this was the most likely scenario, however, others at the time thought a time when a Rachel was alone was be the easiest course if this "someone" was the culprit. But what better scenario to claim stranger abduction than the disappearance of 3 girls from a mall.

 

[Deleted member 165916]

Absolutely acted alone. He did not go to the mall, and stake out his mother's car, because he wanted to kill her. He went there to catch her doing something he forbid her to do Sunday night. He went there to give her "the what for" as we say in Texas. He located the car, then parked up the hill (slight aerial view), and waited and fumed. When he saw them headed to the car he intercepted them between Sears and the car. If you are 17 and in trouble, if your husband says get in the car - you get in. If you tell him, we're leaving now, and he says I'll drive you to your car - you get in. If talking your way out things is what has worked in the past - you flip the front seat forward, the other girls climb in the back seat, and you start talking. He came there to catch her being disobediant and make her leave - except she's already leaving. So, instead of taking them to the car - he headed toward his house, but kept going when their argument turned physical. You do not mess up your wife's face 2 days before Christmas and get away with it. I believe Debra spilled a secret Sunday night and he was done. Other than being a *****y big sister unwanted houseguest - she has no blood on her hands. I've studied 4 handwritten legal-pad pages of her handwriting. I'm convinced she did not write the letter. She and Rachel were in way over their heads.

 

[Philigumbo]

Absolutely acted alone. He did not go to the mall, and stake out his mother's car, because he wanted to kill her. He went there to catch her doing something he forbid her to do Sunday night. He went there to give her "the what for" as we say in Texas. He located the car, then parked up the hill (slight aerial view), and waited and fumed. When he saw them headed to the car he intercepted them between Sears and the car. If you are 17 and in trouble, if your husband says get in the car - you get in. I you tell him, we're leaving now, and he says I'll drive you to your car - you get in. If talking your way out things is what has worked in the past - you flip the front seat forward, the other girls climb in the back seat, and you start talking. He came there to catch her being disobediant and make her leave - except she's already leaving. So, instead of taking them to the car - he headed toward his house, but kept going when their argument turned physical. You do not mess up your wife's face 2 days before Christmas and get away with it. I believe Debra spilled a secret Sunday night and he was done. Other than being a *****y big sister unwanted houseguest - she has no blood on her hands. I've studied 4 handwritten legal-pad pages of her handwriting. I'm convinced she did not write the letter. She and Rachel were in way over their heads.

Thanks! I can totally see that scenario! Renee and Julie must have been terrified! Julie didn't even know Rachel or TT; she was Renee's neighbor, if I remember correctly. What's it going to take to get LE in the lake looking at those cars???

 

[Deleted member 165916]

Thanks! I can totally see that scenario! Renee and Julie must have been terrified! Julie didn't even know Rachel or TT; she was Renee's neighbor, if I remember correctly. What's it going to take to get LE in the lake looking at those cars???

Exactly! Actually, Renee stayed with her "Granny" when not in school (it's Christmas break.) The Mosley's family lived across the street from Granny. This shopping trip was planned. Renee's parents gave her money on SUNDAY so she could get her jeans out of lay-away from Army-Navy store. Renee brought a toy truck gift-wrapped for Shawn (almost 3 yo) with her. There were no other Christmas gifts of packages in that car. They went in. They left. They did not make it to the car. It's time I posted some maps. I'll be back later.

 

[Deleted member 165916]

This is a 1969 map. If you have a question about the notes, ask.

 

[Deleted member 165916]

Sorry. The answer to your question about LE is the paper trail that proves there is a car connected to TT that existed then "went missing" in the 12 months after Monday, 12-23-1974. I have a partial VIN, make and model that I want to rule in or out first. Was it sold?(title transfer record) Was it reported stolen? (police record) Was it scrapped for salvage? (state DMV record.) I don't know if it's still down there. That means I need to see Army Corps. of Engineer records since they are responsible for documenting every car pulled out of there. We found 3 cars where I said to look, in 45 minutes. Then spent the next 3 hours combing the entire shoreline and found no other cars. After I do their research for them, if FWPD doesn't investigate, I'll take it to the State Attorney General's office. I believe LE didn't know about this other car that hasn't been seen since that day.

 

[Philigumbo]

Sorry. The answer to your question about LE is the paper trail that proves there is a car connected to TT that existed then "went missing" in the 12 months after Monday, 12-23-1974. I have a partial VIN, make and model that I want to rule in or out first. Was it sold?(title transfer record) Was it reported stolen? (police record) Was it scrapped for salvage? (state DMV record.) I don't know if it's still down there. That means I need to see Army Corps. of Engineer records since they are responsible for documenting every car pulled out of there. We found 3 cars where I said to look, in 45 minutes. Then spent the next 3 hours combing the entire shoreline and found no other cars. After I do their research for them, if FWPD doesn't investigate, I'll take it to the State Attorney General's office. I believe LE didn't know about this other car that hasn't been seen since that day.

What do you mean when you say you don't know if it's still down there? If a car is brought up with the remains of 3 bodies inside, I would think someone would notice something.
I appreciate your work regarding the vehicles as I know someone who owns a shop. He is given vehicles as payment, or they are left when owners can't pay, and you never know what he will be driving. He has a dealers license and they come and go frequently.

 

[Philigumbo]

This is a 1969 map. If you have a question about the notes, ask.

Very nice map! Thanks! Why do you note that particular pay phone?

 

[Philigumbo]

Absolutely acted alone. He did not go to the mall, and stake out his mother's car, because he wanted to kill her. He went there to catch her doing something he forbid her to do Sunday night. He went there to give her "the what for" as we say in Texas. He located the car, then parked up the hill (slight aerial view), and waited and fumed. When he saw them headed to the car he intercepted them between Sears and the car. If you are 17 and in trouble, if your husband says get in the car - you get in. If you tell him, we're leaving now, and he says I'll drive you to your car - you get in. If talking your way out things is what has worked in the past - you flip the front seat forward, the other girls climb in the back seat, and you start talking. He came there to catch her being disobediant and make her leave - except she's already leaving. So, instead of taking them to the car - he headed toward his house, but kept going when their argument turned physical. You do not mess up your wife's face 2 days before Christmas and get away with it. I believe Debra spilled a secret Sunday night and he was done. Other than being a *****y big sister unwanted houseguest - she has no blood on her hands. I've studied 4 handwritten legal-pad pages of her handwriting. I'm convinced she did not write the letter. She and Rachel were in way over their heads.

Debra being a former girlfriend and a houseguest was an odd setup to me. What secret do you think Debra spilled on Sunday??? I'm curious...
Had TT been physical before with Rachel? With Debra?
I wonder what Rachel was in trouble with TT for that day? Spending money? Cashing a savings bond? Going to the mall? Leaving the house? Driving? Or he just married a teenager to control every aspect.

ETA: After the disappearances, did TT and Debra remain living in his house together until he left Ft. Worth?

 

[Deleted member 165916]

The Army Corps of Engineered is responsible for safety in reservoir lakes they build. Specifically, they must mark with a bouy, or remove dangerous underwater obstacles to a certain depth. During the drought of the 80's, lake levels were so low you could walk from shore to shore in places. I expect cars were removed, but I don't know without their records to review. The part of the lake I'm referring to is close to the dam, in the channel, the deepest part of the lake. So, I hope they are still there. However, there was a major waterworks/ structural tower built, close to the dam that might have resulted in a disturbance to the bottom of the lake and destroyed evidence. But, I think a car was sent off the bluff from a picnic area 300 yds south of it. All I can tell you is that neither the police, nor the army knew they were down there until they were shown the sonar images. All 3 are crime scenes by definition. They are not there by accident. 40-60 ft deep. Not a particularly challenging dive, but needs a forensic team and LE supervision to protect chain of custody. I raced sailboats on Grapevine Lake for many years. There is bouy chained to a rock-crusher (huge piece of equipment) that was marooned on the bottom of that lake because it filled up before the corps could get it out. Lake Arlington has so much junk on the bottom, swimming isn't allowed. It filled up way too fast. But this one place is where he would have gone. There is no use to search any other body of water.
I guess your friend knows the ins and outs of title transfer. Lots of people do. Bet he wouldn't take a vehicle as payment that he believed was stolen, or used in connection with a homicide.

 

[Deleted member 165916]

On Friday, January 5, 1968 - I was 13; misbehaving. It's where we all went to misbehave. I was supposed to be at The Wedgewood Theatre watching "The Bible" for the 6th time - it showed for 10 weeks. (it's a very long movie) Instead, as soon as my daddy dropped us off, my girlfriend and I went to Pizza Inn on the bowling alley parking lot, met 4 cute boys from Burleson, and left with them in their car. They planned to go to the lake, build a bonfire, and throw the rest of their fire-crackers from New Year's Eve into it. The car was parked on a slight incline. The headlights were on so they could see to build the fire. It must have slipped out of gear, because it started to roll towards us. Rolled right over the fire and into the lake. Drifted about 10 ft out, then nosed down. The lights were still on when it disappeared. We had to walk back to civilization - fast! When we got to that payphone, one of the boys asked if we needed to call anybody. No - we needed to keep walking (before my dad showed up.) We left them there. In 1977 I bought a house on Walraven Circle. That pay phone was still there in that shopping center. I think he walked back from the lake and called his house from there. I think he called his MIL from there. He was checking to see if Rachel or Debbie was there(?) He told her he was going to close the shop (early) and go straight to the bowling alley since they weren't home. She believed him. It was probably 4:00 to 4:30. Then he walked to the bowling alley, another 20 minutes. It's a long walk from that park, but I've done it, after dark, in January. It's the 1st of 4 entrances. It's a place he knew. The theater by the way, was across the parking lot from the bowling alley. Tommy was reached by phone around 8:00pm at the bowling alley. He arrived at the Seminary South parking lot, driven by Debra around 11pm. (it's only 15 minutes from his house) I believe he used that pay phone. There was nothing between the turn-off to the lake and that phone but an asphalt road.