GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #3

[noseynellie]

If I recall right...the gas tank of Jenna's car empty was an incorrect media statement, but excuse me upfront if I'm not recollecting every detail correct. Hoping with you.

Yes, I think we should not take these media accounts as being perfectly accurate. I'd go by what Subie tells us in terms of the details. The one from WSB didn't even spell her mom's name correctly in one spot. [emoji849]

Subie said there was enough for his dad to drive to a station.

Maybe the tank light was on but the reserve wasn't totally gone.


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[Stanly]

Where did you see the double increase? As far as I know it is the $10000 originally from the family and recently $7000 from crimestoppers.

Still catching up so may have been posted but there is a go fund me page set up too and some of that money would probably be going towards it.

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[Shiressleuth]

If I recall right...the gas tank of Jenna's car empty was an incorrect media statement, but excuse me upfront if I'm not recollecting every detail correct. Hoping with you.

Yes, I think we should not take these media accounts as being perfectly accurate. I'd go by what Subie tells us in terms of the details. The one from WSB didn't even spell her mom's name correctly in one spot. [emoji849]

Subie said there was enough for his dad to drive to a station.

Maybe the tank light was on but the reserve wasn't totally gone.


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Could either of you give me the details where it is stated that media report is false? Either the car was out of gas or it wasn't.

 

[Capebluff]

Could either of you give me the details where it is stated that media report is false? Either the car was out of gas or it wasn't.

See <modsnip> posts from T2 below. I know this was being looked into but I don’t believe it was ever discussed as to what LE states was the case. I could be wrong though. &#129335;*&#9792;&#65039;

Oh and one more thing. Car was not out of gas, it was on E, but definitely enough that my dad was able to go a few miles to the nearest gas station. Not sure why the police or the media reported that

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...anta-18-August-2017-2&p=13640835#post13640835

Are you sure Police Dept didn't just put gas in it while documenting the car to make sure there was no mechanical issues with it, so they could dismiss that Scenario?

We are asking them that, because I had that thought as well

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...anta-18-August-2017-2&p=13640953#post13640953

 

[Eileen730]

Could either of you give me the details where it is stated that media report is false? Either the car was out of gas or it wasn't.

as i recall it was on E but dad had enuff to drive it home.

 

[Eileen730]

See <modsnip> posts from T2 below. I know this was being looked into but I don’t believe it was ever discussed as to what LE states was the case. I could be wrong though. &#129335;*&#9792;&#65039;


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...anta-18-August-2017-2&p=13640835#post13640835


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...anta-18-August-2017-2&p=13640953#post13640953

jmo when it reads E better get to a gas station. therenis no AE on the thing.

 

[Shiressleuth]

See <modsnip> posts from T2 below. I know this was being looked into but I don’t believe it was ever discussed as to what LE states was the case. I could be wrong though. &#129335;*&#9792;&#65039;


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...anta-18-August-2017-2&p=13640835#post13640835


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...anta-18-August-2017-2&p=13640953#post13640953

as i recall it was on E but dad had enuff to drive it home.

TY all. So consensus is that the media report was false about the car being empty and Subie was going to confirm with police whether they had put sone fuel in or not.
I think this is important because of the fact that the insurance had run out and that J may have been short of money to renew the insurance or to gas up the car. Last time the car was seen was Friday a.m. by Subie at the parents house I understand, because Jenna drove Mum's car later so did anyone report seeing J in her car at all? I don't recall that anyone did. Did the vet notice if the car was there when visiting Friday p.m. ?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Hi Subie,
Hope the recording has helped the investigation. Are you able to share what it revealed and whether the phone ping data is back yet?

Really hope the increased reward will help as well.

 

[Oriah]

Just got to thinking about some of the details of Jenna's case that were discussed early on, and wondering...what was it that ruled out for us someone other than Jenna coming back, tossing the house a bit, switching vehicles, and then leaving the house in Jenna's car...all without Jenna being present? After all, if she had gone out even briefly after subie saw her (@2pm that day) and was interrupted or accosted shortly thereafter-such as, for example, a car jacking- then the person(s) responsible for that would have had full access to her keys, the residence, her phones, another car, etc. The exchanges Jenna's phone had with her friend, the 'laying down' etc were via text, correct? So no one literally saw her or heard her voice. Did I miss a last witness? That puts us at nearly 20 hrs missing, right out of the gate.
That thought is very worrisome to me.

subie, when you arrived to find Jenna missing, where were her mom's car keys? And I'm sure this has been asked and answered by LE, but were there any medications, firearms, or food/alcohol missing from the residence?

 

[Gardener1850]

[h=1]Reward for missing DeKalb County woman grows to $17,000[/h]

CrimeStoppers Atlanta has added $7,000 to a growing reward for a missing DeKalb County woman. When coupled with an already existing reward from her family, there's now a total reward of $17,000 offered for information leading to the safe return of Jenna Van Gelderen.

The 25-year-old Van Gelderen was last heard from when she texted a friend at 2 a.m., on Saturday morning, August 19, to say she was laying down.
Investigators say her phone, social media accounts or credit cards have not been used since that point.

Anyone with information about her whereabouts are asked to call the DeKalb County Police at 770-724-7475 or the CrimeStoppers Atlanta anonymous tip line at 404-577-TIPS. You may also send an email to FindJennaNow@gmail.com.

http://www.11alive.com/news/local/reward-for-missing-dekalb-county-woman-grows-to-17000/481597169

 

[Stanly]

Just got to thinking about some of the details of Jenna's case that were discussed early on, and wondering...what was it that ruled out for us someone other than Jenna coming back, tossing the house a bit, switching vehicles, and then leaving the house in Jenna's car...all without Jenna being present? After all, if she had gone out even briefly after subie saw her (@2pm that day) and was interrupted or accosted shortly thereafter-such as, for example, a car jacking- then the person(s) responsible for that would have had full access to her keys, the residence, her phones, another car, etc. The exchanges Jenna's phone had with her friend, the 'laying down' etc were via text, correct? So no one literally saw her or heard her voice. Did I miss a last witness? That puts us at nearly 20 hrs missing, right out of the gate.
That thought is very worrisome to me.

subie, when you arrived to find Jenna missing, where were her mom's car keys? And I'm sure this has been asked and answered by LE, but were there any medications, firearms, or food/alcohol missing from the residence?

I haven't ruled this out at all. Ive stood by her going missing involuntarily all along. I dont think she sent that last message and i dont think it was her that put all her belongings in the car.

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[Oriah]

Stanly, if that scenario is a possibility, where do you think that someone- the person responsible for Jenna going missing- might have left behind something that might help ID them?
Where were her moms keys?
How was her moms car parked?
How were tv and lights turned on? Is there an outdoor light(s)?
What cabinets or drawers were opened?
Was another door or windows opened or unlocked? Had anything been taken out of the fridge, or put in? Were any sleeping surfaces disturbed? What are the floor coverings in the residence like, and were there any indications of unexpected travel on them? Was anything cleaner or dirtier than expected? Was there anything in the laundry?
Is it possible someone was holding Jenna against her own will, in her own home for a period of time during those 20-something hrs?
What is the wifi situation like inside the residence?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Stanly, if that scenario is a possibility, where do you think that someone- the person responsible for Jenna going missing- might have left behind something that might help ID them?
Where were her moms keys?
How was her moms car parked?
How were tv and lights turned on? Is there an outdoor light(s)?
What cabinets or drawers were opened?
Was another door or windows opened or unlocked? Had anything been taken out of the fridge, or put in? Were any sleeping surfaces disturbed? What are the floor coverings in the residence like, and were there any indications of unexpected travel on them? Was anything cleaner or dirtier than expected? Was there anything in the laundry?
Is it possible someone was holding Jenna against her own will, in her own home for a period of time during those 20-something hrs?
What is the wifi situation like inside the residence?

There wasn't a period of 20 hrs IIRC. Subie found her absent at 10 a.m. on Saturday but didn't know she was actually missing until the vet let him know Jenna was not at home on Saturday p.m. for the visit.

 

[girlie13]

I went back and re-read Bit of Hope's review and have questions swirling in my head. If anyone knows the answer or has thoughts on the below, please comment.

(1) How long had Jenna had the Metro PCS phone? A start date might give us an idea as to how long she was talking to someone/people that she or those individuals didn't want there to be a record of.

(2) How do we know that, "Someone was with Jenna when she came in home in her mother's car." (Quote from FB page)? Who reported this? Was it one of several emailed tips (T2 #290)? Most importantly what time was this and has this "sighting" been verified by LE or a PI?

(3) Jenna's friend (presumably Uber Girl) saw Jenna change out of the green San Antonio shirt and into clothes to go out (T2 #540). What clothes did she change into to go out? This information could help the public recognize/remember her from Friday night. And, if Jenna changed again once back home as Subie assumed, was the clothing that Jenna wore out on Friday night located? If so was it in the box of stuff from her apartment, in the suitcase from the car or was it found at her parent's home? Or, is that clothing missing as well?

(4) Did Jenna have a key to her Mom's vehicle on the missing lanyard or did Jenna use a key for the vehicle that was on a separate ring at the home?

(5) Is any of Jenna's jewelry missing? Maybe something she wore all the time. And, typically girls changing to go out for a Friday night involves some type of jewelry. More expensive jewelry could easily end up in local pawn shops. If so, have those been checked?

 

[Oriah]

Girlie, I share a lot of your confusion. I went back and reread also.
Who the heck last saw Jenna?
There was a small gathering on Thursday night at the residence, with Jenna there.
Then VI says he saw her Friday morning to give cat meds. Said vet must have been there Friday afternoon and met with Jenna. Vet was last to see Jenna? Then VI talked to her (Jenna?) on the phone around 4 or 5pm. Then uber friend said she was with/saw/talked to Jenna later that night, but uber friend is not identified. But uber friend was then the last to see Jenna? Lots of confusion about that. Then when vet showed (again) Saturday morning, no one was there. VI arrived and thus Jenna became known as missing. Or other way around, VI called, no answer, vet showed, no answer at door, VI arrived but no one realized she was actually missing and not just out, until Saturday night. Although some early reports have her listed as missing on the 20th.(?) So that would explain that.
What about the last verifiable seen though?

It seems like we really need to get a firm timeline on Jenna's whereabouts- who saw her that will identify to that fact, where they saw her, and when. Eliminate any sightings or statements or texts or non verbal communications that cannot be proven. Starting from when her parents left town on Tuesday.

What do you think? I think we should maybe sift through all of the errors and misreporting and conflicting statements... and get a super tight timeline up.

 

[pamelado2]

Girlie, I share a lot of your confusion. I went back and reread also.
Who the heck last saw Jenna?
There was a small gathering on Thursday night at the residence, with Jenna there.
Then VI says he saw her Friday morning to give cat meds. Said vet must have been there Friday afternoon and met with Jenna. Vet was last to see Jenna? Then VI talked to her (Jenna?) on the phone around 4 or 5pm. Then uber friend said she was with/saw/talked to Jenna later that night, but uber friend is not identified. But uber friend was then the last to see Jenna? Lots of confusion about that. Then when vet showed (again) Saturday morning, no one was there. VI arrived and thus Jenna became known as missing. Or other way around, VI called, no answer, vet showed, no answer at door, VI arrived but no one realized she was actually missing and not just out, until Saturday night. Although some early reports have her listed as missing on the 20th.(?) So that would explain that.
What about the last verifiable seen though?

It seems like we really need to get a firm timeline on Jenna's whereabouts- who saw her that will identify to that fact, where they saw her, and when. Eliminate any sightings or statements or texts or non verbal communications that cannot be proven. Starting from when her parents left town on Tuesday.

What do you think? I think we should maybe sift through all of the errors and misreporting and conflicting statements... and get a super tight timeline up.

Jenna let the vet in Friday mid afternoon, Friday evening she was seen out by friends and spoke to a friend on the phone (last known contact).

Saturday morning Subie called Jenna, no answer. He came by to take care of the cat, Jenna wasn't home at 10am. The vet could not get in the house mid afternoon to take care of the cat. Called Subie/parents.

That's why the key to all this is Friday night.


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[TheRaven]

(* Off topic....Looking for another case to follow. Let me know of any suggestions. Thx!)

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[girlie13]

I agree that it would extremely helpful to have a verified time and location at which Jenna was last seen.

I would also like to know the timing of the start of the Metro PCS account and the move to the leased apartment. As for the apartment, I would like to know more about the payments for the rent. Do those transactions appear on Jenna's bank account or were they paid in cash?

As I started reading this forum, my gut has always leaned toward trafficking. I know some of you do not support this perspective, but I still believe that there is merit to it. However, I am trying not to have tunnel vision and am glad to read your other perspectives.

Based on the public evidence thus far, I feel that beginning early this year Jenna was being brought into the fold and groomed. The tip-off for me was in the Western Union payments that coincided with the thefts from Jenna's previous employer. In numerous trafficking cases, it begins with debt bondage. http://www.stopvaw.org/debt_bondage_and_trafficking_in_women

IMO, if this is what happened, it was likely that Jenna found herself trapped in a world she didn't understand. These people/this individual gave her money and paid for things on her behalf while telling her how much they loved her, she was their only one and then called the money due with their own idea of how the money would be repaid. I would guess that in this situation Jenna may have looked for other options and looked to the cash register at work. IF she was being introduced into the dark world of trafficking, please understand that it is driven by fear and submissiveness on the part of the victim. This is a world of threats and constant intimidation. https://polarisproject.org/sites/default/files/us-citizen-sex-trafficking.pdf

To further support this theory, I looked to Subie's comment in T2 #295 where he noted that Jenna's leased apartment where she was sleeping on the couch lacked any furnishings other than the couch. This reminded me of the places that are used to meet "johns" and not really an apartment for living.

The comments from Subie about Person #3 (the Instagram account guy who claims Jenna never met him that night and the pocket dialer) and that Person #1 the "ex" (who Subie notes had been violent according to Jenna's friends) and Person #2 (the roommate that wouldn't allow entrance to "Jenna's" apartment) know each other. IMO this sounds like a ring.

For anyone wanting to learn more about how these trafficking rings operate in Atlanta you can visit: http://digitalcommons.kennesaw.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1533&context=etd

Hoping that Jenna is safe and found soon.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I agree that it would extremely helpful to have a verified time and location at which Jenna was last seen.

I would also like to know the timing of the start of the Metro PCS account and the move to the leased apartment. As for the apartment, I would like to know more about the payments for the rent. Do those transactions appear on Jenna's bank account or were they paid in cash?

As I started reading this forum, my gut has always leaned toward trafficking. I know some of you do not support this perspective, but I still believe that there is merit to it. However, I am trying not to have tunnel vision and am glad to read your other perspectives.

Based on the public evidence thus far, I feel that beginning early this year Jenna was being brought into the fold and groomed. The tip-off for me was in the Western Union payments that coincided with the thefts from Jenna's previous employer. In numerous trafficking cases, it begins with debt bondage. http://www.stopvaw.org/debt_bondage_and_trafficking_in_women

IMO, if this is what happened, it was likely that Jenna found herself trapped in a world she didn't understand. These people/this individual gave her money and paid for things on her behalf while telling her how much they loved her, she was their only one and then called the money due with their own idea of how the money would be repaid. I would guess that in this situation Jenna may have looked for other options and looked to the cash register at work. IF she was being introduced into the dark world of trafficking, please understand that it is driven by fear and submissiveness on the part of the victim. This is a world of threats and constant intimidation. https://polarisproject.org/sites/default/files/us-citizen-sex-trafficking.pdf

To further support this theory, I looked to Subie's comment in T2 #295 where he noted that Jenna's leased apartment where she was sleeping on the couch lacked any furnishings other than the couch. This reminded me of the places that are used to meet "johns" and not really an apartment for living.

The comments from Subie about Person #3 (the Instagram account guy who claims Jenna never met him that night and the pocket dialer) and that Person #1 the "ex" (who Subie notes had been violent according to Jenna's friends) and Person #2 (the roommate that wouldn't allow entrance to "Jenna's" apartment) know each other. IMO this sounds like a ring.

For anyone wanting to learn more about how these trafficking rings operate in Atlanta you can visit: http://digitalcommons.kennesaw.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1533&context=etd

Hoping that Jenna is safe and found soon.

If it is trafficking, then why can't LE act if the ring is identifiable? What is the evidence LE would need to act? Why hasn't the parents home and surroundings been searched by LE? I don't understand the inaction and wonder what LE suspect or have evidence for. There must be cctv at the very least and who saw the unidentified male passenger in the mum's car as stated in the initial missing flyer? Does the description of that passenger match any of the known male acqaintances of Jenna? Unless these questions can be answered (and they have been unanswered since the beginning IIRC) then sadly I cannot see how the investigation can proceed or make any headway IMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Presumably the Western Union payments have been traced so it would be known who received them. Jenna's mum as a signee on the account could have that info tracked down if LE or either of the PI's have not done that yet IMO.